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This cannot be
Yeah, that's one of the funniest things ever man
It's a little less funny when you know that he's just saying a boss voice line
But
It is like all like 99% of people who saw that clip don't know that
This cannot be
Just insane.
My wife immediately bought the shirt with this cannot be on it after the win. Wait, did we make a someone else made that I'm assuming?
Did we make that? Well, I think so.
It's the derp tea.
Wait, they like live?
Because I imagine they...
Wait, where does it say it on there?
It doesn't say it on there.
And I don't see it on the store.
Oh, it's on the shirt.
There's two derptees I see.
Ah, I see at the bottom.
That's cool.
This cannot be.
What we don't see is your face, all right, shit.
Hello.
you double ignore Driny guys I promise you it's not on purpose wrong end boss
wallpaper I mean did someone make a really sick lure one let's check wallpaper
engine actually not on stream though because that is not safe unfortunately I
I mean, I kind of really doubt that, why not, bro, there are some completely unhinged things
on wallpaper engine.
Here we go.
Lura, I don't know exactly how you, yeah, there's nothing on that, nothing on wallpaper
engine for Lura.
Oh, wait, I was looking at my content, I need to go to discover.
Yeah, I still think nothing.
Maybe no apostrophe.
Oh, yeah, someone made one.
It looks terrible, though, here.
I mean, this looks like, maybe it's not super low quality.
Okay.
I clicked on it and it just didn't do anything.
Oh, you have to subscribe to it.
I see.
Oh, no, okay, that's definitely not true.
There we go.
No, it's like low res.
It's like, this stuff is like animated low res or low frame rate or something.
Let me find it.
We had this one for a while.
We had this one for many years.
one is crazy good. We had one for dragon flight. This one was kind of nice actually for a while,
different vibe. Max, can you explain to us how you guys messed up gearing this race?
Oh, we actually looked into that a little more because that was obviously a major
question. Also, it wasn't a day more split. Apparently they did eight hours of splits
And then we did splits, meaning like any combination of like gearing your character after reset, which some of that is not all splits.
But they did eight hours of that.
And then pulled Belorin, we did 14 hours on day one and two hours on day two.
So basically double the amount of time.
We did have more gear, though.
So eye level is like a little fake on the boss.
And like, we were kind of looking at the same thing.
It's like, dude, how do they have the same gear as us?
but basically because of MythXplits week one,
every single player was able to get
the heroic crest achievement.
So basically every player had the exact same gear.
What you were able to get was heroic achievement,
which I think is 276, right?
And then you had as many mythic crests as you could get
to go higher than that.
So basically everyone's eye level is about the same
because you had exactly the amount of mythic crest
you had and then every slot was bare minimum 276.
So the eye level was basically identical.
JB said you guys messed up and didn't get the heroic achievement.
That's completely incorrect, yeah.
But classic echo casters referring to our guild at all
and literally always getting it wrong.
But yeah, that's completely wrong.
But we did that.
And then we looked at, so we simmed basically their characters
and our characters and our characters simmed like higher,
even though they were a little bit lower eye level.
The reason for this is with running a little bit more
splits and better itemized pieces,
we had more like mythic items in important slots.
Like for example, let's say after you craft weapon
and maybe craft something else,
you only have enough mythic crest
to like even boost up a few pieces, right?
There's a big difference between those pieces
being like helms, chest, legs, big budget items,
rather than maybe a trinket, rather than another slot.
So we had a few, we had like higher budget mythic items
from doing more splits,
because we had better things to choose from
from our characters,
but was that worth eight hours of losing progression?
It probably not, right?
Like we still kill the boss on that pull.
That's not exactly how progression works though,
because like you have less stamina all the time,
you know what I'm saying?
But so we did actually have more gear,
But it was probably not worth the time.
So I still think they geared better than us,
but we didn't like throw gearing as much as I thought we did.
Max, what would have you done different if you knew that Void Spire was as free as it
was?
More splits?
Yeah, I mean, if we knew from the beginning of the week how easy it was, we would have,
Instead of just clearing it in one raid,
we would have probably full cleared like three or four times
on top of what we did.
But like by the time we did that,
we like put all of our eggs in the one raid basket
and then you can't like go back from that.
So then after that, all we did was four out of sixes.
But yeah, I mean, the thing is though
is like you don't have hindsight.
You have to make these decisions in real time.
That's also like whenever I'm you know gauging decisions we make either strategically or gearing or anything I always
Sometimes I'm like man, we really missed this but also and sometimes that's true
But also sometimes whenever you're comparing yourself usually who we compare ourselves to is echo
It's hard to do that because sometimes like every time like when they're making their gearing decisions
They're making them under different circumstances when they're making their strategic decisions in a lot of cases
they're making them under certain circumstances.
They not only have what they came up with,
but they also know what we did
and they can pick the best things of both of those.
And a lot of times, if you just look at the end of the tier,
you're like, they did all this stuff that was really, really good.
It's like, well, we're just not in that position.
And maybe if we were, it wouldn't change much or something, right?
It's just like really hard to actually compare.
There's been times where I've really beat myself up, actually.
And then it's just like, it's kind of different.
Echo had a great vibe after the race in Q&A.
They were in a good spot.
Oh, I didn't see the Q&A, actually.
I couldn't find it. I tried to find it on the echo channel when I woke up today, but I couldn't find it. Maybe I just missed it.
Why are you two so much better than method?
I think just like the entire network of like leadership and strats, it's such a team effort. It's not the effort of a few people. I actually like really struggle with the fact that like I'm like the face of the guild, but I feel like I just don't deserve it.
that credit. I mean you also get like negative stuff that comes with that when
you lose but like I get way more credit than I deserve like this guild and Echo
have such an insane network of like really smart people that all have very
specific jobs that all really work together and that takes a long many years
of experience to cultivate that and then on top of that the player skill
like dude when when us and Echo I guess formerly when they were formerly
method. We're going at it for many years. We just, like, it was so top-heavy. Like, over
the course of a few years, just all the best players in the world just got stacked into
like two guilds. And then basically every guild that's been third for many, many years
from pieces to BDG to method has just been like, I just feel like they're fighting
such an unfair fight, right? Like, the other guilds have more resources, they have
more fans. They have the ability to recruit your best player over and over again. Like,
the piece of spreadsheet on how many of their best players
got recruited to our two guilds was like pretty crazy.
They're fighting an unfair fight for sure.
It's like so hard to like overcome that.
And then like, I think pure player skill
to be completely honest with you is like,
there's like probably a pretty good gap at the,
and it's just because like they weren't there
in those years when all the top talent
was just getting funneled into like two exact guilds.
I have no idea how method did, but I have actually no idea where method is right now.
We'll see.
Wait, they're not even in P4?
Wait, they're not even in P4?
Did something like happen?
Sorry, not even meant like bad, by the way.
Okay, so here's basically why I'm saying that.
Echo is trying to kill, like this poll count is fake as fuck, right?
Like when you're trying to kill a really, really hard boss after, uh,
after you've lost world first, and if you're Echo, that's the only thing that
matters, like your motivation goes down and like, bro, it's going to take
you forever to kill a boss like this.
But like method is in a way like motivated to get second.
Second would be a massive gain for them.
And they had the ability to wake up last night and potentially do that.
And I figured they would maybe play better, but like maybe vibes are down.
That's the only thing I think of, or, or they like.
They did like late comp swaps, which by the way, that is something that you can out plan
and not have that be the case, right?
Maybe they made some comp swaps pretty late and then it's like relearning plus you're already
tired and vibes are down.
It can kind of like death spiral on a boss that's this hard.
The bear swap was rough for them.
Really?
really surprising. When we swapped to bear, we one shot into P4 in the last phase and we wiped a
single time to the third set of adds with no 3DKs, which is the only thing you need a 3DK for,
need a 3DK for. Yeah, I mean, it might be a Yip's diff. He's fucking insane, but like,
it wasn't just Yip's though. Like, for us to do that change, it required both
misweaver monks, our elemental shaman, and both auga vokers to make that grouping work without
mass grip and without like an extra two death grips. So more of like an overall thing, but yeah,
that's actually, I mean that that at least makes sense. Like a comm swap that didn't work out,
like we made this like when we were on Jailer and we were still like on the last day of Jailer
we were clearly getting gapped by a lot, but before that we were still progressing pretty
well and we made a comp swap it was like a healer swap I think and that just fucking ended us like
it was pure regression and it was at the worst time and like morale hit an all-time low and it
was just like a perfect storm that a comp swap solves so I've definitely been in those shoes before
maybe that's what it was yeah but that's actually really surprising that that they
didn't get into p4 or even really close honestly like two wiping at 2% in p3 is like not even
getting close to seeing P4 because that's with people
immuneing and your whole raid dying,
which you have to beat it five seconds even before that.
Max now was just unreal, mentally checked out as well.
He said he lost all motivation when we killed it.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Because I think for a lot of method players,
getting second would be a big win.
That's like you're trending in the right direction.
you've achieved something that you haven't before,
but for now, right, like second doesn't mean anything.
It's also kind of an interesting thing in that guild
where I wonder if there's ever,
I wonder if that's maybe something
that is weird for that guild to deal with
because I bet they have a lot of players
that are like unproven and like obsessed
with proving themselves in the guild
by getting second or get it doing as well as they can.
And they also have a fair amount of players
that are like from Echo that have won multiple times.
And you can't like convince those people
to get hyped up for something that isn't first.
Like that's just not real.
So like, I wonder if it ever is weird in that guild
trying to deal with both of those things.
It sounds like it would be hard to deal with.
Echo and Method need a restructuring if they ever want to stand a chance.
There's literally no way you watched this race and the last race and think that Echo needs to majorly change something to win.
Like they could have done both of those things.
That's so unfair.
Do you think it's also a 21-man diff between you and Scrype?
I saw two different postures as body language if we compare you and Scrype.
No, I have no idea.
I actually think I am not as good as the Roger plus Scrype combo.
I think those two together are definitely better than me.
I don't think that's their issue at all, at least
in terms of strategy.
And it's really hard to gauge that, again,
because I look at things they do and I'm like, oh, that's
really smart.
And there's a lot of stuff this race that they stole from us
and we stole from them.
But every time I see something and do something,
I'm like, god, that's so smart.
It was such a good strategic decision.
I wish I would have done that.
But also why I stopped beating myself up about it
so much is I'm, in a lot of those cases,
not in the situation where I have the idea of what we could do
and what they already did, which is sometimes
how they make their decisions.
But late on a boss, like late in this raid,
that wasn't true, like we were taking from each other.
But yeah, they're really good.
Is Boomi real? How is he so good and adaptable?
Oh, yeah, Boomi's great.
Skype mentioned liquid split strategy sucked compared to theirs. What was the diff?
So I actually thought this as well. I thought we like hard through by losing a whole day of progression,
but I was missing a bit of information.
So it was not an entire day. It was like eight hours, which again is a lot of time
But we did actually end up with better gear like we we spent a lot of time on that this morning actually looking at we simmed both of our rosters
and
Made sure like because like the eye level being around the same or little higher is like super fake because I
Know I've kind of mentioned this at the beginning of the stream, but obviously this person wasn't here
Everyone's eye level our whole raid had the heroic achievement
and then our whole raid had as many mythic crests after that point as possible, which
outside of mythic pieces that drop above one out of six myth trek,
you're gaining very very small amounts of eye level, and by doing extra runs we definitely had
better slotted items to spend crests on slightly. But was that worth eight hours of progression?
No. But I think seeing it was like massively worse is also not seeing the full picture.
He has been moving like prime LeBron lately.
I will say something that's very impressive is like, I'm really proud of how we showed
up on multiple days this year and on Demensius where, like, dude, waking up and knowing
that your opponent who's very good can kill the boss and they're currently lower than
you and then ignoring that pressure and then beating them to the end point three times
in a row the Demensius day the secret phase day and the kill day both all three of those
we woke up very behind and outpaced them after the day started that is extremely hard
to do and your players have to be like fucking mentally built crazy different
to be able to do that.
And they're now, you could never convince them
that they can't because they've just done it
so many times in a row,
which is really good for confidence going forward.
It's so hard to know that until you do it.
It's very, very good.
Max, is your guild gonna give Mythic Plus ago this season?
So
If you guys watch the last MDI we like put together like a liquid team basically for the first time ever where it was like
just straight up our best players were involved with it and like going super hard at it and
They did really well. They came in second, but like it was them and
Missed count with who won who was insane. It was them that were like playing at the same level
They were lost by like a few seconds to them.
And this was their first, like, as it called the TGP,
is their first MDI as a team,
and missed counts been like around for a while.
So basically they just showed major upside.
And it was really exciting.
And if you follow the MDI, it's like, it was really cool.
I got bad news, not like super bad news, but like,
Okay, so time trial start in a week and all of these players just got done playing while non-stop all day every day
since the end of February for early access and
I was in a channel then the other day and they were like talking about not like hardcore talking about it
But being like hey guys, how does it feel to?
Take less than a week off and go straight back into all day every day
months straight of all day every day MDI practice, which is what you would need to do to compete and
And if you wouldn't be able to expect it, the burnout from this race is very real.
This is the most effort any of these players have put in, and they're very over it, understandably.
And they don't want to get released from one prison and put right back into another, so I kind of doubt they're going to do it.
I'd be surprised if, honestly, any raced World First player does the MDI, at least the one upcoming here.
Now the issue though is by doing this MDI you can qualify for like a LAN at BlizzCon, which is really cool, but it's just the timing is so bad.
Max's burnout more than sepulcher.
I think it's different, but it does seem so, yeah.
Like none of these players wanted to do this much prep.
Like fully preparing 16 characters,
or sorry, 20 characters, 16 hours a day
for like a month and a half is just, it's so fucking lame.
It's what is required to compete, which is super lame,
but no one likes it.
It's the worst it's ever been in that regard.
Max, are you going back to BlizzCon this year?
Oh, yeah.
I would assume so.
I love going to BlizzCon.
I've been to, like, I mean, I think I maybe have maybe, I've maybe missed a year one
time since every when they've had it since like 2012 when hockey I just got
back. Max, yesterday you mentioned that a specific person made the Guild 10% better.
Who is that?
Well, Hippie, I think is who I said that about, yeah, yeah, I mean, dude, he, he is a fucking
monster, man, just you ask him for something, it's instantly ready, it always works.
a communication, like teamwork problem solving,
he works really well with another,
like a tech creator that we have.
It was just a complete breath of fresh air.
And I am like, with how close this race was,
I'm pretty sure we would have lost if he wasn't here.
Just straight up, he had insane tech.
Like that memory game tech was fucking beast.
In Echo, I don't believe had that ready.
They basically made it when they saw what they were using was not that.
And it was just so smart.
There's a lot more people involved with that than just hippie.
But yeah, he was very impressive.
Max, have you taken a look at logs on stream yet?
Curious how AUG did compared to other classes.
AUG is extremely broken.
It's like the best class in your raid on every fight.
If we wanted more boss damage, the first thing we would do is swap in a third AUG.
Think about that.
It's fucking insane.
so it's so good
max you miss playing and read leading at the same time
would you want to do to get the game a lot of
i mean it does allow it
like we could do it i
and not
it's only a few expansions ago where i was doing that full-time
uh... will never go back to it because
there's no way they would realistically band doing it right how the fuck
would you do that? And it's just too good. It's just super overpowered. Like basically
when you're raid leading in game is you are hopefully a good enough player to win when
you are purely playing your character in your peripheral vision and your main focus is raid
leading the guild, you are still acceptable in whatever guild rank you're in. Most people
do this the opposite way where they try to be as good as they can be. And then
they raid lead after that, but you're just actually a shitty 100% of shitty raid
leader if that's like your priority and why would you ever take that concession if you
can have someone in the raid instead of you that's fully focused on playing the game and
you can be outside the raid and be a way better raid leader because you also don't
have to be worrying about that it's just it's not it's not even an argument like
It's just insane.
Max, I thought ECHO was better in P1 pre-glaze nerf,
but you were way better at P3 and P4.
Yeah, I also, I think that was because like,
okay, so P1 is a phase,
and I think you guys would agree with this,
that you were getting through P1
with really high consistency for multiple hours,
and then like you could have multiple hours
where you go bad.
We were the night before the nerf. We went to bed
being out of P1 like
Like 50 60% of the time over a two to three hour period
It was insane we were fucking blasting P1
But before in that day we would throw in P1 because that's just kind of how that phase was before they nerfed it
and after by the way, and then we woke up
And they were having a hot streak as well and then the nerf came in and then the narrative is oh
Well, this sucks for you because they were way better at P1 and I just like I don't even I just don't even know
How you could have that they were they were like figuring out P2 really well
They were doing P2 way better than us or P2 strat was great
But as far as getting out of P1 the previous night we were great I
Think it was just the narrative of the people creating the narrative basically like oh this is so fucked for us
And I mean I do feel for you like
Basically, the only time Blizzard has done any nerfs in the last, I mean, a long time,
has been like early in the morning Pacific time when they wake up and go to the office,
which is right when we start our raid and it's a few hours from there's ending.
That is always going to feel bad, but also I don't know a time where Blizzard can
nerf bosses and like everyone or even kind of feels good about it, like someone's going
to feel like they're getting fucked, but what they did was nerf P1 after our guild
Gold had pulled it 180 times and their Guild Hub pulled it 195 times.
We spent basically the same amount of time in the phase that was nerfed.
I can understand it being at the beginning of our day and feeling bad about that for
sure but I think their complaining about nerf timing is really overblown.
All of us look side-eyed at that for sure.
They blow that way in a proportion and their fans are super annoying about it.
And yeah, I'm just, and also like, I promise you, you've never had a worse nerve timing
than us.
I'm just going to throw that out there.
Is there any toxicity this race?
I usually stay off of like social media, mainly, sometimes at night before I go to bed.
I don't think so.
I mean, there's always like fans for both teams that are horrible to each other and horrible to us,
but they get pretty quickly banned.
You know, there's a lot of people who like are in chat and like when the other guild is wiping low,
they're like, oh, echoes at 10%.
Oh, echo might kill.
Those people aren't, I don't think are being toxic.
They're just like excited.
I don't think there is a lot of talk. It used to be much more toxic and like BFA for sure
Like literally they're like biggest streamer was just like slandering us every single day
Like we hate the fuck out of that guy and them at the time for that now. I think mostly there's very little toxicity
There's definitely players. I'm sure that they don't like our guild and there's certainly a player that we do not really like in their guild
But other than that, it's very cordial.
I mean, I literally tried to call Roger.
I was driving home from hockey today
and I was just, I literally called Roger on Discord.
I don't think he's probably asleep or something,
but it's fine.
Max is a liquid fan, this race would be so boring without ECHO.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Said that a lot.
Max, do you enjoy the drama comments post-race?
I mean, I honestly haven't seen any.
Max, talk about Prezavoker. In what way? I don't really know what to say about it. Oh,
you know what we should do today? We should review your all's pre-raid raid comp predictions.
That'll be fun. And then also, let's review our pre-raid, like, all classes tier list
to see how right we got. And by the way, y'all better be ready to apologize to
the fucking Ellasmere. I'll say it right now. There's all this is always the case with
a few of these people, but they come on those things and they're very honest and you guys
all think they're sandbagging. And Ellasmere said Paladin is fucking mid his fucking raid.
And it was even worse than that. And all of you, including Jack on my stream, we're
slandering that man's name and saying he was like fucking full of shit and he
was exactly right. So remember that the next time you guys are super upset
that the person that actually knows what they're talking about
isn't agreeing with your narrative that a class is better
than you think it is, right?
Like, Holy Paladin is dog shit.
By the way, how they did not buff Holy Paladin?
before Heroic Week, before Mythic Week.
But dude, after Mythic Week 1, no Holy Paladin buff.
What is even happening?
They are probably the single worst spec in the game
at what they're attempting to do, right?
Like healing or damage or whatever.
And that is the one class not getting changed.
How is it possible?
Are they like really good in like PvP
or like Mythic Plus or something?
Like what causes them to be so bad
and them not be buffed?
I don't even understand.
It's not like Holy Paladins are like a,
You know what can happen a lot of times?
Is classes that have a not very vocal community
can be dog shit and Blizzard will never change it
because as you could probably imagine,
Squeaky Wheel gets the grease.
If you are constantly complaining
that your class isn't good enough and you're not wrong,
you're going to have a higher chance of being buffed
than if you don't have people who cry a lot.
So I mean, I know this is really insufferable
but like you should just cry all the time
if your class is bad because you just have a higher chance
of it getting nerfed.
And like, holy poutons cry so much, dude.
Like they actually will not shut up
and they're still not getting buffed.
It makes no sense.
Like, I don't know if you could kill these bosses
with a holy God, man.
Like they're fucking terrible compared to other healers
this year.
And, and that's including a tier
where the supposed second to last boss in Illyria and the last boss have a massive single target healing requirement on its very select people,
which by the way, isn't that like Holy Paladin's entire bit?
Is it like massive single target healing on the healing absorb on Illyria?
Like Holy Paladins are better at that than everyone, and they're still not good enough to even be considered, like not even considered.
Uh, crazy.
Max, do you think looking forward Blizzard will have more secret phases?
Yeah, it's interesting because this raid.
I mean, that was just the biggest race to world first moment ever.
The clip of our secret phase has more clip has more views than our kill,
which was a day later.
The thing that actually matters.
It was everywhere. I got texted about it from a lot of my friends that don't even play. Wow
There there it was it was very widespread. It was very culturally relevant
But that being said
It can't
It can't happen
That thing that happened two days ago can't happen if they make secret phases all the time
Like they made a secret phase we data-minded we knew about it
And then, I mean, I literally said on stream 95% chance as a secret phase, and then they made a boss so hard that even we
Completely did not believe that there would actually be a secret phase because it would be fucking insane
To make you kill that boss and then there is it's not over
That's how they just so many things had to go this direction because really our reaction to the secret phase is a
a large part of why it was so interesting to watch
because we actually thought we won
and we were devastated that it was not over.
And that is, you know, that made that moment what it was.
Not to mention it also happened to be Easter Sunday.
You're talking insane R&G, like crazy fucking R&G.
Dude, can you imagine how cool it would have been
to be in like the, I'm sure there was a watch party
or like a Discord call or something
with all the people who knew about this
that create bosses at Blizzard, just watching us and Echo get low
and all these casters talking about who's going to win the race
and all of them know on fucking Easter Sunday
that this boss is about to go to one billion HP again
after that happens.
That must have been the most hype group chat of all time.
Like they had to have been going like pop in the fuck off
in there.
That would have been insane to be a part of that.
And yeah, I don't know, man, like that it was sick.
But the thing is though, the secret phases are not normal.
And secret phases that we don't know about
are basically unheard of.
Just gonna give you a little tidbit of information.
Every single secret phase that has happened
since I have been rating,
we have known about it before it happened
and we were positive it was going to happen.
It was datamined.
They're way better at datamining now.
Most of this stuff was server side scripts
on how these things worked
where you couldn't really datamine it.
They got a lot better at hiding it
and the boss had to be hard enough
that even though we knew it was there,
like what the fuck could reintegration even be, right?
Like we knew it was there,
but we had still convinced ourselves
that it wasn't going to happen.
Obviously, you don't even need to hear me say this.
You can tell from our reaction,
clearly we thought it was over.
And that reaction could not have been that way
if we had data minded at like every other secret phase.
So it was pretty special,
but also if they do this next tier
and if they do this the tier after that,
if they, maybe the better way to look at it
like if they did this on Demensius or if they did this on Anserec or something, it wouldn't
have made this moment what it was. No one, everyone was like, what the fuck is happening,
right? And that can't be the case unless this is very rare, right? It has to be random
and it has to be rare. So as far as like whether they keep doing it, I don't know.
But it was definitely cool.
It's cool that we won.
I will tell you that if we lost this race, I would have very negative feelings about that
secret phase.
I'm completely honest with you.
Like bro, we end up like killing what everyone thought was the end of the boss and then wait,
we end up fucking progressing the whole day learning the secret phase for our opponents.
We go to sleep, wake up and we've lost.
Bro, actually blow me the fuck up.
That would be, that very likely could have happened, right?
I'm so happy that did not happen and then like of and then the only thing that will remain from this race is a clip of me
That is by the way has more views than like any race to world first win
Is us celebrating a race that we lost
humiliating like I'm fucking Jesus Christ. Thank God be one like it. Oh my god. Oh my god
They would have been the only time a guild found the secret phase and then lost.
True, right?
We saw N'Zoth first and we won Echo saw Jailer first and they won Exorcist saw Gul'dan first
and they won.
Did Exorcist see Gul'dan before, or see Gul'dan, see your face before Serenity?
I actually don't know that.
I could ask Renako, he was in Serenity, but the race wasn't streamed at that point,
so that kind of makes sense.
In fact, it actually sounds likely to me that in the era of streaming the race
to world first, I would say more often than not, the team that gets to the secret phase
first would actually lose. Because like if there's anything that streaming your progress
hurts you, it's giving away information that another team could not at that point have
obtained on their own, especially when they are asleep. And showing a literal phase is
like the most extreme version of that, like you are giving them infinite information.
you are saving probably hours of time, just straight up.
Logs would have helped a little bit more,
because I imagine they didn't know.
One thing that we knew about the phase that they didn't,
until they woke up and got there themselves,
is what the actual damage checkup the phase was.
Because the only way you could know that
is by having logs of how much damage
the light did to Lura.
So that was at least important.
I honestly think if they had known that,
I don't know if they would have gone with the comp
swap that they did and have some relearning because you want to know why we went to bed
and we were like, we fucking lost because we knew how free the fucking phase we got to
that phase. They're going to lie five times and killed it in P4. It's a free as fuck
phase damage like everything wise. Honestly, it's just the reason it's hard as it happens
so late into the boss. Like if you were to hit a pole 10 and be able to start in
P4, us or Echo is getting that 100% down to zero mistakes and less than three poles.
It's not hard, but it is hard.
It's not hard standalone, but it's hard because you get to the last phase and then you're nervous
and you're also exhausted and you've been mentally locked in for 10 minutes to even get there.
Just getting to the secret phase of this boss is one of the hardest bosses ever.
Think about that.
It's fucking crazy.
Then you have to do something else where if you move a pixel in the wrong direction
with these little star splinters. Everyone's dead.
Bro, everyone really dislikes Jinji. Did I miss the lore? Yeah, I actually kind of didn't understand
that either. Like we obviously have had many circumstances where like, and this by the way,
please don't like feed off of this. I don't want to feed more into him getting like shit on and
stuff because this doesn't matter that this is the case. You should not be parasocial with
us or really anyone. But like, obviously we do not like him at all, especially for the fired
it up, think like we will never fuck with that guy ever after that. But I don't understand why he's
getting dunked on so much on the internet. Like he's like, I read multiple tweets where they're
like, turns out the biggest DPS increases sitting Genji turns out, or like, fucking this guy's
solo fucking works for liquid and like solo into them and like that is like not
like I just don't even understand like when is the narrative that Genji is a bad player?
And he's like one of the most accomplished wow players ever right across raid and mythic plus
What did he say about fire if you don't know about that situation
I'm not gonna bring it up because I don't want you guys to like piggyback off of it and be weird about it
That's not the point. I'm just like being real with you
I'm not I do I do not want you guys to act on our behalf of like how we feel about something is not relevant to you
Let's see max the secret phase made both guilds so much money dude. Yeah
we
We probably got our job saved by that lookie the first the first week was horrible for viewership and
Yeah, having two straight days like a hundred K concurrent concurrent viewers is like insane that
Yeah, bro if this if this race would have been like week one and week two
It had so many lasting things. Not to mention is it terrible for business and we would have lost
probably over a hundred thousand dollars.
These events are very expensive.
And not only that, but we would have
probably lost a lot of good players. Can you imagine like these players prep more than they ever have before and then it's all for
bosses that are like kindergarten level? Like they would be like, why are we even playing the game?
It would have, it would have had, I honestly think, I don't know if the race will ever die, but it would have been significantly hurt if they would have fucked week two up with this race.
Max, is that number inflated a bit? I know I had both streams open the whole time, you guys are both progressing.
I don't know. I know that the viewership between them was swinging massively when one team and wipe and one team weren't.
So I think not everyone was doing that.
But also Twitch has some things in place that a lot of people confuse.
If you guys have ever heard someone say like lurkers don't count for your viewer count, that's like totally fucking made up by the way.
But what they're referencing is if you have like multiple stream tabs open unmuted or like in a different tab,
like it will not count the one you're not actively watching. Like they fixed the like muting the tab thing.
So like I think a lot of that isn't counted for but I would think logically that like if you're caring about the race and everyone's
Here for this event and it's hype because you're watching both teams. How would you not have them both open? You know like I don't
Yeah, I don't know also YouTube had a lot
Max you think blizzard pumps those bosses up during the first week and they realized it was too easy
I think that's not even arguable the answer that is yes not to mention for the first time ever
They increased a boss's loot pool to reflect its new difficulty over the reset
They buffed Bellarine loot to three out of six to four out of six mythic
Which is only true of two other bosses alleria and lura and like they mean yeah
But like without question the answer to that is yes
Max, so you're in hindsight you're happy with them emergency buffing midnight falls. I don't even know
if it was an emergency buff. I still think people get that wrong. Like we have fought bosses before
that were buffed as much as Belorin and midnight falls were buffed. We read those notes and then
we pulled the boss and the boss died in 10 pulls and it's because the number before that was so
low. But the number before a boss is released is completely irrelevant because no one is
pulling it at that time. So any buffs or nerfs before something is released is just final tuning
numbers or maybe they were waiting for more information to actually tune it. And I think
like the whole narrative was like, oh, like, oh my god, they're buffing these and I mean,
it ended up being that they were obviously very hard and harder than they probably originally
would have been. But that's not, it's correlation, not causation, right? It's not,
it's not because of those emergency, emergency buffs or whatever. Like that's just,
That happens like to pretty much every boss we pull after the first three or four every rate here
Max, do you think that you are getting worse as a raid leader the longer it's been since
you were a player in the raid?
No, but I don't know, maybe.
Who knows?
Max, is there any concern for you
as a guild leader that your raiders might get complacent
after winning four in a row?
Concern no because like it's kind of insane for them to prep as much as they are just to show up to a tier and not like
Give it their all. It's just it doesn't really make sense
I'm not concerned about it, but I do know that there will be that
Do you think that the guild that's won four times in a row is gonna compete harder and
Care as much as the team that's lost four in a row like the versions of ourselves that has lost three rates in a row
Which which by the way has happened to us
you can't simulate wanting something that bad versus being used to winning.
It's impossible. So we are absolutely more complacent than our multiple time losing in a row versions of ourselves in this alternate reality.
But it's not by a lot, right? But I mean, it's a thing. It's just, it's how humans are.
It's check every major sport, right?
Like when people even have the same roster
after they win a few times, you just simply,
you simply, it's first of all, it's so hard to do that.
And second, it's just impossible to replicate
the same level of caring because you're a human, you know?
So I don't know.
I mean, I sure hope that doesn't end up being the case
where we just think no one can beat us
and then we lose a race and we're losers for six months
and that feels terrible.
But yeah, I mean, we all really care a lot.
So I think we'll always prepare well, but yeah.
Max, with a weak start and a strong finish, how would you rate the race overall compared
to previous ones?
I don't think I can relate this race to any previous race.
The first week was complete dog shit, and the second week was one of the most insane
things to ever happen to me.
I don't like it's so hard to even find the middle ground between that because they just felt like two different things
Like I'd never want to do a mythic split again. I
Never want to take four days off after we start and having to get players to like really refocus again
I
Don't know it's crazy. I'm actually really happy. I mean obviously, but also I'm really excited
that like the viewership was really high again in week two.
Like I thought after week one, even if week two was a banger,
just people would have tuned out and stopped caring.
But clearly that is not true.
Like those viewership numbers were insane.
Actually insane.
So I, and for long period, for like two days, right?
So I'm really glad that the first week wasn't a total turnoff.
Max, your new members seem to really own.
How do you feel about your new additions just here?
Yeah, I mean, you said it.
They're good.
I don't know what else how many say about that.
The casters had some really good filler.
Yeah, I called my mom today and she mentioned like some kind of cams thing where he was
like a wannabe caster or something and he like logged on my computer and like put
a virus on it.
I haven't seen that, but it just sounded fucking crazy.
She loved it.
Max, any concern that liquids continued dominance could hurt the viewership?
Until Echo is no longer competitive, or gives up, which won't happen, they're just too good for that.
I don't think it would ever matter now.
Like we've seen it before, like when we've lost a few in a row, we notice that the narrative starts to shift from us being like, like when we were losing a lot in a row, people like wanted us to win so bad, like the consensus was like, dude, I just want liquid to win.
And then after we've won multiple in a row, it kind of swaps. It's like, please, I want Echo to win. And it's just people just want something new, right?
But I don't think that interest goes away. It just shifts from one guild to another sometimes between like fans.
But yeah, I mean, I don't also like what the fuck you want me to do about that
Just throw a race so it's like more interesting for the viewers fuck that
People want actual competition
But I don't know if you've watched the last two races and think there's not competition, but you are crazy as fuck I
Have I was certain that we lost both of them
So like I and I me so like I don't know how you could possibly think that
Max Yargi was incredible, but clearly at times struggled with consistency.
he do enough to stay with liquid. Yeah, yeah, Yagi was good.
Struggle consistency. I mean, he did have some deaths in P1, but I don't think he ever really
reacted poorly to it. You want to know something that's really interesting about Yagi?
Bro, he made Mark have the best tier of his fucking life. I don't know if it's like
Mark certain players are differently. I think Mark really does well with
someone else like bounce ideas off of as I think most players would, but like,
I think like Mark, I don't know, maybe just didn't feel, I mean, this is, I'm totally just making this
up. Like none of this could be true. But like, I wonder if maybe Mark saw Yargie joining as like
some competition for his raid spot and just like locked the fuck in like this is Mark played
so fucking nuts this raid. He was insane. He was like one of our best players by a lot.
And I find that interaction I haven't talked to him about this yet
But I I don't know if there's any correlation with that not to say that like he normally wouldn't play I mean he's really really good
It's just like he definitely was on a different level this raid and this raid was fucking hard
So I
Yeah, I don't know I find stuff like that interesting kind of makes me want to do that more often
I mean you can't like manufacture that though
You have to like if that if that is actually true, and I'm not just projecting all this like
You would have to recruit someone that would actually genuinely make that player
You know be like I need to like lock in you know you can't like that's not true of everyone
Dargi has good PR
You guys are talking about MVPs are spelling Chungus whole wrong
Yeah, Lip had a really good raid. Atlas had an amazing raid. He did so good on
Illyria and Bellerin. I mean yeah, a lot of players are really well. A Shine played
through like the most ridiculous circumstances. He was like having the
worst sleep of his life. He like, we almost wanted him to go to the doctor.
Like he was just so fucked. And we were giving him time to like sleep during
the day if he could and he ended up still just pulling through.
Max, who got sick on Kill Day?
Oh, Wall Life, I think.
Yeah, Wall Life, we literally had to take a break because he was feeling ill, like while
we're like potentially could lose at any moment.
And obviously, I mean, you have to do that.
I'm pretty sure he was very sick and still playing through that and playing really well.
I'm pretty sure he topped it in the last phase. Or P3 maybe.
Max, are you worried that Scott might brexit with the other Euro players he has recruited?
Some new race role first drama faced with tears of joy emoji.
But are you like, that sounds like an AI chat. There's no way you're real.
Um, that cannot be a real question.
Um, Max, I don't know much about the world first race, but would I balance Druid make
the kill harder if you would replace a hunter?
On that specific fight, yeah, because you need 200s marks in P3.
Uh, I think balanced Druid is like, okay.
I haven't actually looked at all boss statistics or anything, but definitely we were not ever
considering playing balance this tier, except for maybe if dragons was hard.
I think balance would have been quite good, but probably still not better than a lot of
other things.
We had our raid comp, our pre-raid raid comp on vanguards and dragons if we really needed
boss damage.
Had a lot of fucking hunters in it.
I believe eight.
If they made dragons hard, if they made vanguards hard, we would have played eight hunters.
That's fucking insane.
Mark Yargy, Trill, Splat, Shea, Wolf, Anarchy, seven, that's seven.
I think we had one more, maybe it was seven.
They were all like fully geared too.
Max, are you overall happy with how this tier went?
Yeah, we won.
95th percentile, all bosses mythic.
Wow, Devourer is way.
I mean, Devour is sick, but this seems like a specific boss
or something is taking them over the top.
Yeah, this one makes sense.
Dragons make sense.
Vanguards make sense.
Get out of the cosmos is a meme fight.
Chimeras makes sense.
Yeah, okay, yeah, it's just like,
I mean, their single target isn't great though.
Like their damage to bosses is, it's just, it's fine, right?
It's not like super top tier,
but they just do all of their damage,
cleaves around the boss or a large part of it.
And that's just a super broken niche.
I tweeted about that today.
There's gonna be a tier.
There's not many specs where this is true.
Where you could probably play more than four of one spec.
Devour is a class that excels at its niche
enough to potentially do that in the future.
There are some classes like this.
I guess it's technically true of any spec
if they just happen to be doing like 10% more
single target than any other class.
But that's like pretty rare and can kind of happen to anyone.
It's very rare actually that it ends up being true.
Like I think most recently, the most reason that was true
was Windwalker in Liberation of Undermine.
But even AUG, like AUG gets weaker
the more you bring of it, right?
Cause you're starting to buff other AUG evokers, right?
but it's still really good.
But yeah, there's few classes like this.
Some examples are probably Windwalker with PI right now
if you had to do like a burn phase of something
which was obviously relevant on Beloran.
Frost DK with current tuning has like one
of the best raid profile, or not with current tuning,
but like has one of the best raid profiles
with its current design.
It's currently just tuned really low.
Arms Warrior to target cleave is certainly powerful enough
be in a position where you could stack a million of them marksmanship hunter
obviously we literally did it this tier more on multiple encounters so they're
they're up there with their current design I will also say unholy I feel like
unholy is tankiness their inability to be moved they cannot be moved against
their will they have insane mobility and their easiest fuck can play at
range. I feel like melee classes like I guess Rep Paladins a little bit and then on Holy DK that
can do most of their rotation away from their target is so much more broken than you think it is.
Like as a melee, what makes a melee fight hard is you have to do all these mechanics,
not every melee fight is hard but the ones that are hard is like it's challenging you to like
maintain boss uptime while dodging things. Perfect example. Melee are way harder on
on Lura, because it turns out seeing a glaive come through the boss' melee is a lot harder
than range because you have less time to react to it.
It ranges a lot easier because it's easy to dodge every glaive you see, but it's really
easy for glaives to come out of a direction you are not seeing, like the boss, which
melee are right next to you.
However, if you're like a good melee, what makes you good is your ability to do all
those things while maintaining uptime.
Do you know how much easier the game gets when your choice to live is like, oh,
I actually can get off the boss and not lose damage.
It's just, I'm just gonna make up a number,
but like every mechanic is just like 30% easier or something
because you just don't have to think or care about that.
Max, why does your Raiders use bigwigs and not DBM?
We work with bigwigs and we have a bigwigs developer
that like creates custom timers for us in progression.
Like we use Blizzard timers usually
we first walk up to a boss. But then over time we like make our own versions of the
timers so we can add our own timers, customize them however we want, and have some tech work
off of them which you couldn't do with default blizzard timers. And we just do that with
bigwigs. We actually used to do this with DBM, but we just use bigwigs now. Max, any
thoughts on how China progressed this year? No. I have literally no idea what China
doing it all. Although I did find it very funny that we started mythic splits on
Chimeris on the second day of the first reset, and we killed Chimeris world first,
which we said before the tier would be extremely unlikely for us to do that
because someone could just go in there right away and kill it and we were
going to do splits for a day. No one did. We go in on the second day and we
get world first on Chimeris, and a Chinese guild gets world second on it
within like 30 minutes. Everything is 15 minutes. And if we had just decided to start our splits and
do a little bit more mythic plus starter splits a little later, or just do it in a different order,
total random, right? The Chinese team, there's a bounty from net ease and like that's been
accumulating over many years. And it's for them to get first in Hall of Fame. And they
clarified before this race that it would count for any of these three raids. So like one of
one of these Chinese guilds like Rush DreamRift to make around 200,000 US dollars equivalent.
And we beat them by 15 minutes on accident.
Bro, that's gotta feel so bad.
They could have just let us know and we could have split that shit.
Easily wait for 100k.
All good.
Who gives a fuck about DreamRift?
Max, assuming I'm exile quits wow, do you think peekaboo could join Liquid and be an insane
race world first player?
I don't know how good peekaboo is at PvE, so I have literally no idea.
But I like peekaboo, I've hung out with him in LA at a few parties, this has been many
years now.
But I think peekaboo is a fucking beast at PvP, so maybe he, I mean I would think
peekaboo is a good enough gamer that if he ever like fully locked in on PBE and it was his favorite his like number one thing
He probably is a good enough gamer to do this if you put enough time at it for sure
Also, I feel like peekaboo would be a crazy vibe guy
But yeah, so basically like when you're doing anything that's competitive at the at the highest level
It's really really hard to do it at the very very highest level unless it's your number one thing
It's actually usually why a lot of players end up falling off of race world first rosters as they get older
And this is true across a lot of esports as well. It's not usually reaction time
It's usually a passion gap like usually when you are at your best
This was your favorite thing in the world and you have to love it to be that good at it and care that much
and then at some point you get older and maybe you have a girlfriend or a wife or a family or a child or
Or maybe you just have moved on and other things are more important to you and at that point if you're e-sport or sport or whatever is
Competitive enough you can't do it anymore because you are just simply going to get gapped by someone else who is more eager and more
Driven and cares about that more than you do and you will not be as good as them. There's literally no fucking way
it's just too hard to be that good at something and
so like
Like could peekaboo just join a race world first team right now and not give a fuck about it and be good enough
No, but I do think he's seems like he's good enough to where if he were to like actually like really devote a ton of time to it
And if he came his number one thing he probably probably could yeah
It is nice having people that are good at PvP in the guild though.
We had to do a little bit of PvP for prep before Heroic Week, or I think maybe even at the
end of Heroic Week, and just if anyone's not like, man, I don't really like PvP,
like throw him on a quick twos or threes team with Trill and just he just actually solos
than the other team. It's so easy.
Max, you have some YouTube chatter shitting on hockey.
Okay, I don't care.
Let's check YouTube chat.
What's up? What's up, YouTube?
Honk. Oh, dude, Guzzy's still here.
Yeah, I haven't seen you all in a little bit.
I barely have any chats open during the race.
I mean, I have no chats open unless it's like an ad read or something, but yeah, what's up?
We don't claim that guy.
Yeah.
Oh, one second.
I'm getting a call.
you
you
you
you
All righty, Max, sorry, that was the vet about Reptars lab results.
Long story short, he's a fucking beast, he's a healthy little boy.
Is he good? Yeah, I mean, he's just like an annual, like, yeah, he's on.
Max, why Ellie Shaman over Resto for the buff? Ellie didn't really have a good damage profile
for this race. Ellie was good. Ellie had an absolutely horrible damage profile for fucking
voidspire. It was terminal. The fact that the other Shaman specs were so bad that we
played Ellie in voidspire is insane. But yeah, Restor Shaman wasn't really playable.
This is the worst it's been in years, power-wise.
Things designed is actually pretty cool.
But yeah, I mean, Ellie was really, really good on Beloran,
because they did.
But yeah, I mean, Ellie's pure single target is great.
I'm actually surprised to even see it down here.
I would assume it's even higher than that.
The problem is they just do no cleave all doing it,
which is hard to compare.
Any reasoning behind fired up switching to arcane the day before the kill?
Yeah, touch of the magi sometimes on damage amps, which like the last phase of that boss,
P3, like kinda is, it like double dips the damage amp because of the way touch of the
magi works until they fix it.
We had a feeling that that would work, we tried it, and then it did work.
It was doing more damage on logs than Frost overall to boss damage.
So that's why we did it.
However, fired up said he was like, I kind of want to play frost.
I feel like the damage isn't that different.
And also it's a lot easier and I would play better.
And I'm like, that makes sense.
Cool.
If you feel like it's a better choice than you do it.
He went back frost and then our boss damage increased, even though he was
doing less damage on logs to the boss than his arcane mage was.
And my only theory as to why this could be the case is that the
dormant theory is that maybe they're stealing Augs damage.
Damage.
Like when you look at a log with augmentation of ochre, they
try to attribute a lot of the damage that classes are doing
to Aug, but some classes steal damage from Aug and it's not
perfectly logged. And I think that's what was happening. Because we were doing more damage
with him playing a class that was doing less damage, which makes no sense. That's our
only theory. Basically arcane mistake news on that boss.
Max, what would it take for method to level up their game and become more even
with that go. Did you get better? Could that have been attributed to swapping after having
reps? No, I don't think so. Max, would you have played a Shatter Priest in the last boss
so they could hit both bosses after they split in P3? Maybe? Shatter Priest is really
good. It's just I don't think it's good for that boss. I also think a shadow
priest with glaives and p1 would have felt very bad to play. Like really bad.
Actually so bad.
Max, do you think that pure DPS classes that lack RAID bus should be compensated by having
the highest DPS on paper?
No, that's like a hard way to, that's a hard way to solve that, it's a bad way to
solve that problem. I think every class should have a raid buff that makes you
want to play one of them in a raid if we're gonna do this raid buff thing. My
preference would be that there are no raid buffs and you could be more
creative with your comps, but that's just not clearly not what we're doing and
or ever gonna do. So I think there's actually a lot of issues with that.
Like I actually currently hate what they do with DK. Their whole just dying
on this hill that they won't just give them something that puts them in the raid. And then
they're just like, okay, we're going to make it so you always need grips on the last boss,
which is, they have done that, right? Like, you need a DK's on the both of the last two bosses.
In fact, you could argue it's a double raid buff on that boss because you've always needed
not even just one, but two of them. But it's only one boss. It doesn't have
really any value in Mythic Plus, which is a major part of the game.
And on top of that, here's what it means.
So you're telling me every single end boss now is going to have some ads
you group up on the boss and just get like some on boss cleave.
That's how else how else are they going?
It's the only way. Decades can be required.
Isn't that going to get old?
The same fucking bit every time we do an end boss.
It's like, OK, some ads are spawning.
Oh, you need a decay for this.
Let's grip them under the boss.
Like why why be so one-dimensional in your game design because you just have to die on this hill
That they need to be gripping things specifically like I
Can't get over how much I disagree with this decision
But you know me it hasn't been the worst thing in the world
I just think it's gonna get a lot more old than it is now and
Pretty easy to do and then yeah, and then assess and then no assassination room
But just rogue in general
Has it was pretty interesting this year like they were tuned pretty poorly
um
I think they are getting buffed but
Yeah, I don't know. I just feel like I feel like row was just in such a bad spot this tier
And they got I mean, maybe their raid buff is gonna get buffed though
Like you guys saw what happened last year hunter got sat for one boss not even
Not even like
For a long time it was sat on the world first and second kill
And then it was in for every single other kill and not only were they in they were like the best class ever for that boss
after p1 and p2 got nerfed so like and
Then they got their raid buff buffed to an amount that is so insane that you need like another one anytime
There's another target. It's so good and
then rogues come into this tier and
In the void spire all the hard bosses the damage like isn't attributed to the actual bosses, so it does nothing or
Or they're just so poorly tuned that you couldn't bring them anyway and obviously yes, you could maybe solve it with the tuning
We played a rogue on the last boss. We almost sat it on the last day by the way
And their rate buff is really good like their rate buff when it works is
insane like 3% passive DR to your rate is
Extremely broken. It's so good
And imagine how poorly you have to tune them for us not to want that or
Or make your fight source all the damage from the environment so their raid buff just simply doesn't work.
I don't know.
Sitting Exile would have been so sad. Yeah, he's a beast.
We have a lot of beasts though. If Exile's in, not in, it just means we have another beast.
Um, having a rogue in for kicks and stops, yeah, but they don't really, you don't need
like the way rogue stop things in BB.
What does Nada do?
Um, not, she, she, uh, she works with the players to make sure they have everything
they need as far as like supplements, you know, vitamins,
anytime you're not feeling well, you have a headache.
Her job is to make our players feel good during the race.
And she's really good at that.
They love her, like she is so good with them.
Like I think she really likes the team
and they love, she's like so good at her job.
Yeah, get the Korea team blast going.
Why didn't you play Shadow Priest for any of the other bosses?
We did.
You played it on a leery, right
Pretty sure
Yeah, I got proof
Max, why did PrezEvoker fall off for the last two bosses?
I think part of it was like raid buff related. I mean, Evoker was definitely good.
I mean, I think Evoker just, like, we were really high at Evoker going into the tier.
We wanted to play like two of them, and then after Heroic Week they did get nerfed,
but like they were also just like not quite as good as we thought.
And I think they also lost their raid spot to Mistweaver because like Mistweaver was like way better than we thought it was going to be like
Especially when that new Shailun build started like getting popular
I think they just like kind of lost out to Mistweaver basically
There's also like presa voker is good in very specific kind of fight designs like I don't think they're that good at like rot
But they're really good when your whole raid is just getting like Chungus fucked every 20 seconds like this boss
Like this boss present workers great for cuz just in P especially on heroic you just get
You just get your whole raid just gets nuked every like 20 seconds
They're just like the best healer at that, but that's not how a lot of bosses work, especially this tier
there's like a lot of a
there's a lot of
Bosses that require like strong single target healing specifically that was a huge niche this raid
Max, why do you think Echo was playing two resto druids for Lura until they swap the last
day?
Few theories, I think that probably the main one is that the hardest thing about that boss
to heal is like keeping the seed players alive, and they're probably the best healer at
that specifically like that amount of targets and just making sure they're all healthy. So
it's probably good for that reason. Also having a second roar on that fight is quite good.
As far as that, I'm not sure. I mean, we were off of double Resto. We liked the single.
We had the ability to run it. We just thought Monk was better. Also, Resto does no damage.
I really wish healer damage wasn't as much of a consideration as it is.
Max's Resterger would actually good for high tier raiding. Yeah, I mean it's really good
on the hardest boss this year so yeah. Whose idea was it to run the bear? We were trying
to swap in some more boss damage and we were trying to figure out what the best way
to do that was, we could have played disc, but we were like, I don't know, that just sounds,
it's like a worse healer for the fight, and like that's definitely something that could
maybe cost some relearning, and then we were like, well, like, what if we dropped a DK,
blood DK for Guardian, and then we're like, well, then we'd have to bring another on Holy DK,
and then that's someone being 400 pulls deep on this boss, and having to like learn it.
And that's like, not good. It's like, what can we do with our current comp?
And Yipz was like, I'm confident I can make Guardian work.
And we were like, are you sure he's like, yeah, I can do it.
I will Astro fuck the boss and the ads and P1s.
And also, I think we can make this grouping work.
And then and then I took some time to like figure out how the grouping would work.
I assigned a misweaver with ring of peace to each side.
I assigned a knocked each side.
And we only gripped the four far ones and knocked everything else in.
And I thought it was going to be a big regression point,
but it actually was just a complete joke.
It was actually easier than 3D case gripping.
There's also more people involved too,
but I mean, it was just easier.
And then yeah, he absolutely fucked the boss.
And on his very first pull on a new class on that fight,
we had an everyone alive P4 pull,
including, let me find this.
Can I find this on our Vod review tool probably?
One second.
Yip had an insane fucking play. And I want to show you it. If I can, where the fuck is the Vodderview tool and channel? Here it is.
So I'd have to go to recent fights and I'd have to find the pull that we first played Guardian.
You guys remember when we swapped Guardian? I mean it was a P4 pull, was it this pull?
was it this pole? So this is, he's on, this is a farm. What about the pole right
before this? Was he on DK? No, that's a, this is a farm pole. Okay, where, when did
we swap in DK? Was it here? I think that looks, yes, he's on DK. Okay, we
We have maybe 11 a.m., but this was the previous night, so.
Why did Yipz look sad after the boss died?
I think Yipz has just been like, when we hit the secret phase and the boss didn't die,
it took a lot out of a lot of people and I think Yipz even pretty vocally was like
ready for this shit to be over.
It's been a long, like basically two months
of playing way too much WoW to prepare for this.
Yeah, vibes were absolutely slaughtered by people.
OK, so I just checked these.
I remember it happened after a break.
Was it not this poll?
I mean, I know he's here, but like, maybe it was this, still there, okay, we're narrowing
it down.
Here it is.
Okay.
It is this poll though.
All right.
Check this out.
I hope this is when it actually happens, it's after it's during the gateway and he doesn't
have a gateway control shard or like it got unbound on this character because he just logged
over and like he has a million different druids and actually I don't even think he didn't
have it bound but for whatever reason he just like couldn't click the gateway and was
like we were gonna wait because of this here it is here it is this is his first fucking
pull on Guardian on this boss. We're about to hit the last phase. He's hitting the boss,
he's like, guys, I can't grip, can someone rescue me, rescue me, rescue me. Any fucking
wild charge grips himself. He shifts out of bear form during a boss, during the boss like
casting something in between melees and wild charges to the fucking group goes back
Black Bear doesn't get one shot and saves the whole fucking pole.
Jesus Christ.
I don't think you guys understand how insane that is.
That is like fucking crazy that he did that.
Complete beast.
I really like the circle adjustment spread in P3, yeah.
I did admit the close of the Ips before he joined Liquid, he's the best tank in the world.
Would not surprise me that's true, but no none of us would make that
Like
Claim about anyone because it's just a ridiculous you unless you play with all the best players
How could you ever say that but I mean it would it would surprise me if anyone was better than him? Yeah
Max I'm dumb. How did you guys know where the constellations were going to be in phase three?
You don't necessarily know, they're a little RNG, but there's ways you can combat the RNG
slightly, so pre-spread.
When you're in this phase, we found out specifically the boss's positioning once you were here.
By putting these two bosses in these certain positions, you could not get the other—like
basically the constellation goes on one side at a time, but if your positioning is
too close, the other side can kind of get your constellation.
A constellation can only spawn in a few spots in the room.
Like the other group specifically, like Yip's group,
they learned this.
Jernacko's PUV, I think, shows this.
Early in progression, he was getting fucked by his position.
Basically, his old spread spot used to be, let me keep
backing it up here, right beginning of the phase.
Right here.
his spot here, but until we made some boss position adjustments, he was like getting hit
by these glaives all the time or these constellations. But we like made a small movement to where
like these can no longer spawn on him. And it was purely because like it has to pick
between a certain amount of players in an area for a side. And if there's too many
people close together, like does it like at the end of this phase and the and the
very beginning of it, it was like causing a lot of inconsistency because you're
You're basically dealing with more constellations than you should.
Max showing off how useful the liquid armor is.
Yep, yep, yep.
Yeah, this is a public site when I'm using it right now.
You can have access to this immediately.
I want to watch Echoes kill.
Let's see.
Does anyone else find it really hard to go to past VODs on Echo's channel and the Team
Liquid channel because they're all like two days long and like you don't know when the
rebroadcast starts or when it does I don't know it's so annoying
it is flakes we can do this throughout the race yes you can
it's uh it's
your partner and especially to everyone
What is this okay, so this is not they're just like playing memes
What is this 484, okay, this looks like great token and stars under you now watch the stars
Yeah, after the beams, it's tight timing. We need to meet each other
484 pulls 487 before you nine how many pulls they eventually killed him
We'll watch all of P3
So then go between the marks. You're not allowed to co-stream echo east-worth rocket. Yeah, but it's a bad
Yeah, bro, they specifically were like stop watching this kid
Dropping into one drop in so pick it up
Dropping middle in to one drop the spread
pick it up when it's a clean spread pick it up drop in middle in two one drop the
spread oh does he not do a seed so who they have you see it's oh they have
double evoker instead of mage yeah that makes sense we basically had fired up
doing it from the beginning of progression and even though they're not
as tanky as a voker we had like our other evoker try it after many pulls of
not doing it, and I was just, I just didn't think it would make sense for him to hold
the seed.
Basically, if we started at pull one with the evoker doing it, I think it would have
maybe made sense, but also I just kind of trusted fire to be good with it.
I feel like on a boss like this, where if any of these people die, your pull is over.
Yes, you kind of want to put it on the right classes, but it also at the same time
you want to make sure that they're never going to go off, so usually like early
in progression I will default to you know players that I think will do really good at that and then
over time it's like okay it would actually be a lot easier to heal if it was on this person and then
we tried it and even though they didn't get enough of a chance to really get good at it it was just
like we're too far we're too far into it. Go in front.
Personals and why do they not spread around oh yeah that makes sense with the bosses.
I don't know if that's starting in one.
I don't know if that's spreading.
And personals in two, one, personals.
So this is like all the seed groups.
Yeah, they're in like an exact triangle.
And go so.
Great damage in three, two, one, splitting up.
Some kind of logic where like a large area around the boss is always open.
I don't know exactly how that works.
Like this mechanic I think is significantly harder for range than it is for melee.
I don't know why that's always the case.
Like next to the boss is always just this massive space.
You think Havoc will be taking in the raid?
Yeah, Havoc's fine.
Triangle Cervo into Tx, Star, and Mark Spredford.
Triangle Cervo to Velo.
Yeah, you spawned.
We will go next.
Now we have time to Tx, Keep Soaking, and Diamond.
Good.
pattern. You definitely learn to get better at it, but basically, yeah, let's let's get
a set before they come out.
Spawning between the corner and stars under you now, star.
Alright, so basically, any of them that are super close to each other, like drawing
a line here, anything like this are at least a possibility to connect and some of them
are guaranteed. Same here, can also make triangles this, that, that, that, that, and then probably
this. And then it should, it should look something like this, but not everything will be there.
Just like maybe, maybe this part isn't here. But like you know that if like something
is all the red lines here, like this is too far for them to connect. This is too
far for them to connect this is too far for them to connect uh oh yeah this one can also connect here
uh and i'll remove all this bullshit from my screen but you just get used to knowing that like
basically you could instantly die if you're in any small area and the lines also never cross yeah
exactly oh i didn't even see that last one was why did i not see that last one was it like
Was it under a...
Spawning between the corner and stars under you now, star.
Oh, yeah. Dude, who knows? He could have like a debuff over his head.
There's probably one directly under this thing.
But also, yeah, I just missed that one.
But also, it's kind of like not as visually clear, right?
Like under the boss's hitbox, it's...
This purple circle right here is not...
Like, you see how it is like more visually distinct than this?
Like, this is the same purple circle right here.
But it's like clearly harder to see over a purple boss. Yeah, also if you're top-down
Many clips of someone standing in a lights fire and then like this exact soak like right here
We'll just be directly under this thing and it's yeah visual clarity on this boss was a major issue
So next other team stars might touch us but it's
It pisses me off that they don't just use more of these colors
I mean
They don't want it to look like a wild star boss or like a final fantasy boss with reticles where like like reticles
They think are really ugly. I also can kind of get behind that like I kind of fuck with reticles when I play those games
but like I don't know
Like there's two parts like I'm super gameplay focused. So all I care about is
Like how the game feels to play right on in any game. I don't care about lore
I don't care how the game looks at all zero. Okay. I think graphics can make a good game great
But it can never make a bad game good
They are they are there to enhance, but they are not like a major fundamental thing. I am
Pretty alone in that like I know most like you'd be surprised how many gamers like graphics are literally everything and like
Like looking at the way the boss looks like this is a I don't know. I was gonna this is like a a
a
Wind chime and I don't know what wind chimes normally do but like this one does a lot of void stuff
So it clearly needs to be looking super epic and voidy and like yes, not everything is
Clear but like they're not gonna make this guy randomly just do like green mechanics because it's easier to see like there's some kind of balance as a
Game designer where you want your game to look great and look thematic for the boss
It's just for me personally. I don't care about that
So it always bugs me when things aren't like purely for gameplay, but I know that I'm kind of alone there
Like this heaven and hell door this glass vase looks insane
Look at these little the dogs coming out of the boss and then this heaven and hell shit like
Looks fucking crazy, right? It's like oh, would it be technically easier to see this thing if it was bright pink?
Like yeah, but like what are we doing here? You know?
That now that is just talking about like the colors of everything visual clarity this race
Was a major problem regardless of that
It's I actually don't understand how we went and took such a step back
from
The last two raids where that was like a big emphasis. It was great
In the whole game as well like mythic plus everything and now it seems like we just kind of forgot about that
Oh one thing I found interesting I heard
A clip of sprite saying after the tears now. I saw this earlier in the encounter. I'm gonna rewind it
he was watching someone's POV or the Echo broadcast was showing a POV of someone
who had like the ability to click things on their frames. Was it in P1? No. Okay but
for this memory game he said that an analyst was outside the raid and doing
this memory game and you can do this by having like all the healer POVs up
and the tank POV up because you know that through those you will see all
five marks. I didn't know they were doing that at all. We talked about doing that.
We talked about doing it. But it was like, dude, you have to have someone who's not me,
like strapped to their chair for every single poll. And if they're ever like not there,
there's just everyone wipes and you just a poll's over. Like I feel like that's so hard to do.
you. And we just had our players do it. We had, so the way the mechanic works in P1 is
the tanks never get sent downstairs and you see two marks upstairs. Okay, so a tank is
always 1-4. Tank is always 1, tank is always 4. And the healers get sent downstairs
And one of the healers will get this and this,
and the other one gets this.
So if you just see those classes, it's fine,
and we just had our healers and tanks do it.
Also another smart thing you can do
is like give your healers the seeds in P1,
and then it's impossible for them to go down,
or you give two of your healers seeds,
so the same two healers are now doing
the memory game all of progression
to create consistency.
That was really smart.
I think they were doing that initially
and their progression eventually moved off.
Also another strat I thought about
that we didn't utilize, but I think is really smart.
You guys are doing this boss in the future.
You might wanna consider this.
One of the main white conditions is this.
Sorry, I don't know why this ended up
being a TED talk about this boss.
We'll watch them kill it in a second, but.
That's a bad example.
Let's watch the third set.
Okay, so.
Oh, wait, now we're watching a PV
if someone downstairs, that's why we don't see it.
Or maybe you see the seeds hit the ground downstairs?
Let's see.
No, shit, I need to pee, oh, fuck.
Okay, you know what, let me show you RPV,
just for this point.
Fired up, always sees this, cause he never goes down.
And it's from the beginning of the phase to one now so right now
So do you see how these guys put their crystals down?
If you get hit by this beam with this mark you take shadow damage and you make these tears spawn soaks if you don't
And if this thing hits this on the ground or this gets hit by a glaive
Everyone instantly dies these caused a lot of wipes because turns out doing this later in the fight. Let me show you
like later in P3, it's like insanely fucking hard to drop these and not have them get hit by
glades because you know sometimes there's a hundred glades running. This is like this,
this took a lot of learning to learn how to do this, right? But what you could do is like,
okay so basically how this works is if you don't have a seed, you are eligible to be
We send downstairs.
And on the second, on the third set, because you have six seeds, actually the second and
the third set, all the seed people are upstairs and everyone on the raid that is on a tank
and a healer, except for two healers, go to the other realms.
What you could do is basically never have the seed people have to learn how to do this
drop because it's so dangerous.
a seed person just dodge glaives and not have to do the memory game mechanic would have created
consistency. So I think maybe what you would do is you would have, I kind of am kicking
myself that we didn't do this in progression. Maybe it's bad, but at least I think it's
a good idea. Like let's say you have the boss here, you're doing a memory game, and
then all five seed people, right as the memory game starts, they drop their seed.
Everyone says dropping seed in three, two, one. All those players move in, you
drop all five seeds on the ground. And then if you don't have memory game, which I think a few
people in the raid will not, including tanks, you pick it up. So basically, you turn a mechanic
where one person will still have to hold it. But if you do a synchronized drop and everyone's
right next to it, and you just know that you pick it up, if you don't get memory game, you
eliminate this entire wipe condition. You also present a new wipe condition of dropping
the seeds and having to learn that whole thing, which is like a little harder than just trusting
everyone with it. But then no one has to learn how to do this, which is get hit by their
thing, not hold the thing when it hits you and drop it specifically around this
glave, get hit and then pick it back up again, which is the hardest part of the
phase. And you could come, you could completely ignore this. And then you could just
have the same people that picked it up, hold it until the next one, and then do
another drop and repeat this process to just create a scenario where no one is
actually doing the hardest mechanic of the phase. You add more people learning
how to play with seeds? No, you don't, because learning how to play with seeds
is doing this. In this other strat, no one has to ever do that. Unless you
mean playing with seeds, meaning you're literally just have a seed on you
and if you get hit, you die, but that doesn't change how you play at
If you're a regular player and you see this glaive it turns out you really don't want to get hit by it
But if you're a player with a seed you still really don't want to get hit by it
It doesn't change anything about how you play you don't have to play with a seed at all
You before the intermission you would just put the seeds back on the people that are doing it in the intermission
Or in P2 or whatever right but in P1. I think this would have saved a lot of wipes
And I am kind of sad that we did not think of it until right now
perfect example by the way of
You guys in your guild may be doing something that the race world first guilds didn't do and it might be really good for you
But also the if we're being realistic that time that whenever you a lot of you guys get to this boss
This this little wind chime is going to look absolutely nothing close to what this boss is right now
It's going to get absolutely turbo nuked
Okay
Let's watch their kill now
Um, Max, any thoughts on in P4 having the blazes go front to back?
Yeah, they swapped to that.
I don't know why.
Left or right seemed to chill, and front to back seems the same.
Maybe the thought is, like in the last phases, when the beasts come out, like maybe if you're
moving left to right, you have to think about a beast coming at you.
Oh, I, here's why.
If you're like sitting here and these debuffs are coming out, let's rewind it like 5 seconds.
I'll wait until an ad runs down.
Okay, so this is the pile of ads that they use the extra action button on.
But if you're running to the back first and then the front and then the back, the back
is away from all animals because they will be soaked.
The front is most likely being intentionally cleared by one of the tanks if there's
ever like a lone one like right here.
And maybe that's just more safe than over here, because like over here no one's clearing.
Why would you ever clear an ad that's coming like this?
Why would you ever clear an ad that's doing this?
You wouldn't.
So it's like more dangerous, I guess, for deaths where front and back is like, we need
to keep this line right here safe anyway.
If anything comes to this line, it's going to one shot someone unless it's soaked.
So if you commit to soaking anything that's going to show up in this line, then now
Now the two safest spots should be, you know, one, two, and then three, right?
I think that's probably why they did it.
Just trying to problem solve that in my head right now, but we did left, right, left, and
we won, so that's better.
But also we stole that from them when we woke up, so it's, I mean, it was just
their original strategy.
Keep running.
Keep running.
Biggest stacking in the run.
Biggest stack in the run.
And we're going anywhere in the back.
Front.
Back.
Don't shoot us.
Oh, they got such easy star splinters.
Running.
Wait, oh, they don't immune clear.
I think maybe that was a really nice optimization for us.
Have you noticed on our kill, on all three runs,
we have an immunity in front of the ground.
three runs we have an immunity in front of the group clearing the ads so there's
no like side stepping like you see here how they like kind of sidestep as they're
moving like especially early
well this one's actually super fucking clean but the next one I think they
stutter like here now you're running and it's like oh you're stopping you're
Stopping wait wait wait everyone wait. It's like it's like it's really hectic
But if you like have someone immune so because just like no one's thinking but also they're doing less damage, right?
And like I guess there's a check running
It picks a stack in two one pixel stack and
Yeah, realistically if you don't kill the entire raid with these dude their splinters are pissed running actual piss splinters
Best RNG of all time.
Fixer stacking in two, one.
And at this point, at this point to be honest, I think the boss is like Astro dead. You'd have to...
I mean, you could kill half of your raid at this point with the first splinter and you would still kill it.
In the back, do not shoot us back from... don't shoot us.
Communioning now, and...
Yay!
Max they literally had a wipe with 20 people alive and the boss having 8% HP and P4
I don't believe that the only way that can be true is before they hot-fixed the
So that was pre they nerfed the boss slightly they basically made so how this
worked before is you guys see these little light debuffs on people's frames
right here if you died and got rezed you never regained this buff which
basically meant it was impossible to kill it if anyone ever died so naturally
They fixed this because like if you read someone they should obviously they're gonna lose the tick from when they died
But like you can read them and keep going
What they did is they nerfed the boss technically by just making each of these things do one initial more tick
That wasn't to nerf the boss that was they ended up inadvertently nerfing it by I mean you have to do like 10 million less
Damage total but like out of a billion like it means like fucking whatever
The reason that happened is it is that was their fix to getting rezzed like you get rezzed and you go in the light and it doesn't initial tick and that's what applies to the debuff to it prevents that from happening so I believe any pull where they had everyone alive in this phase and they wiped it 8%.
I had to have been with that involved like they didn't have full light debuffs on the rate it kind of makes no sense.
Unless they like just didn't spend any CDs in the phase or something
19 alive Jinji dead the whole time was 6% wipe
Yeah, with Jinji alive it would if Jinji was alive without even pressing a button
His light debuff alone would have killed it on that pull if he was actually dead the entire time
Max it was after your kill I watched it live. Oh, I mean, yeah, can you like link or you can't link anything in the chat
I don't know how you'd even get it to me
The
fact that they had a .2% after the liquid kill was kind of heartbreaking, really, it
was after we killed it so it wouldn't have mattered. Oh you mean like going to
bed with it dead? Yeah I see me.
Yeah I gotta be happy cuz like dude even though you don't win at this point
like dude just being done is so sick. Oh where was the like post-race Q&A you guys are talking about?
Imagine the Ekko fans that they killed the next pull though. So many head start comments.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, those people are kind of insufferable, but yeah, I mean this race
I don't even get that though like
Like we started
Like a long time after them on Beloran which again was like well not really our fault
I guess because like our splits just we had a different plan, but that wasn't like there
It wasn't on them that that happened that could have not been the case
Um, which, oh dude, I actually got one the other day cause like, you know how like the
super delusional fan just believes that it's a pure 16 hour thing.
Like the fact that you're pulling bosses with information, you never gain back time.
Anytime they kill a boss in less polls than you with full information is because they
just played better.
It just doesn't matter.
And I brought up the belleran thing.
I'm like, oh, we killed like belleran in more polls.
they're like yeah well of course you did cuz cuz you uh cuz you woke up and you just fucking had
like the full fucking strat and I'm like oh wait so hold on hold on one second fucking pause pause
so what you're telling me is obviously and then yeah it must the person's head was just doing
fucking backflips. Max, check the pin. Alright, thanks, dog. Let's get it.
Uh, okay, and then if I hit watch full video.
Max, I know this argument is tiresome, but would there ever be any difference if there was a global raid release?
Um, I mean, would there be a difference? Yeah, I mean, it'd be a lot more exciting. It'd be super less bullshit for EU, especially like they lose viewership on the first day.
And there's, you, it would remove the fear of like us getting a boss with a reset of gear and just instantly killing it because they haven't gotten their reset yet. Thank God that has never happened.
But like, do I believe it would have changed the result of any race we have won so far?
Absolutely not. I'll stand on that for sure.
But it also fucking sucks and they should do that, but I think people need to give us, give respect when it's due, for sure.
Like, not even, I don't even know how many races in total that we've won, that they even killed it within 16 hours of us in general,
but even the ones when they did, it would be pretty insane if even they were making that argument.
That is the pull I was talking about well, I hit watchful video is that is it just right before this?
Like like going into like the second week it was all the comments were like do what if liquid just
goes in and kills it because the voice bar and dreamer were so easy but the reality is like
like, yeah, that would have been bullshit.
But also that's like never happened.
It's just simply never happened, right?
There is one thing though, like I notice our guild plays
worse when we are, actually I don't know if that's true.
I was gonna say we play worse when we're trailing,
but low key it's like a lot more stressful
when we're ahead because you feel like
you have to like can't make any mistakes
or someone will gain ground on you.
So you're like, even though it's just so inevitable,
It's so weird, like, you feel so stressed out
anytime you're wiping a lot in P1 or something
because you're just like, guys,
we have to like keep gaining pace,
but it's just inevitable that you will fall behind.
It's just how streaming the race works.
And then once we're behind,
we're actually like kind of fucking insane.
Like, dude, when we wake up on a fresh day
with like, they passed us during the night
and we get some little fresh info to go off of,
fresh day, we kind of just pop the fuck off.
I feel like, I don't know how we've learned
to do that well, but it does seem nice for us at least.
Alright, I'm going to watch the pull.
So when was this?
This was 454 pulls.
Is this before we killed it?
Wait, no.
Wait, sorry.
their best was 0.3%. Oh, this is the 6% wipe with Genji dead the whole time. Of course,
while he's not dead the whole time. Right? He's getting ticks off right now.
Now, back with the first place, dead front, back, running two, one, run, oh, oh, I thought
this was a GDP of EL like that, no wonder you're dead, actually.
Okay.
It's just stacking in one pixel stack, the laser's going back.
Dude, I have so much respect for Echo when they like are have already lost, but we'll
still stay up to like three or four AM to try to kill a boss before going to bed.
I respect their leadership for getting them to do that and also their players to do that and
still have like P4 pulls because if we ever lost, which now nothing matters, there's no rush to
do anything like if we lose, you lose. If we, if it was midnight and we lost and I'm like guys
listen we're going until this boss dies they would kill me in real life there is no they would I would
be dead they it would it would never happen they would all quit the guild if we did that one time
and either they like Skype and Roger like convince them to do it or their players I think what
someone said is that they vote to keep going it's and if they if that is true as well like
Like they just vote like their players are like fuck. Yeah, let's not just go to sleep because we're all extremely
Exhausted at this point. They want to keep going
That's fucking beast dude. Like I that is insane mental
Max would you say echo is more dedicated to their leadership
I guess so bro like they would roast me on a spit and kill me if if we did that
Like I'm I'm serious they would actually murder me and especially like dude
Suri is the number one person that this bro if we ever went an hour over raid time
He was perma doom posting in current Raiders. He fucking hated it. I
Just can't imagine. Yeah, no, I think so. I think they just have crazy aura or something
That like they're just everyone in their guilds like yes
We must actually play up until the night even though nothing matters anymore. They're just fucking monsters
just unbeatable beasts. All right, as a German cutting edge player we vote to keep as well,
we vote to go as well. Yeah. I mean like dude, Cere is like such a nice person, but like the
second you go over raid time, he goes like full German in current Raiders chat. Like he will,
He will slander my entire bloodline if we went an hour over raid
Wait, this is not the pull you guys told me about oh
Oh, no, this person went straight.
Okay, to be fair, though, this is why this mechanic is hard.
Like these go out so fast.
Look at this.
Three, two, one, now, okay.
So this one isn't hard.
Ideally, you have the, there's two versions of Star Splinter.
One of them is like this and the other one is like this.
So obviously the front-back strat, it's super easy if you get the pink one because if you
just go straight back, this is safe.
The strat is if you get this one, you like initially go back and then you have a choice.
You can either go left or go right, which will then make this big open safe spot here
like not hit the rate or the other one obviously.
What he, now he has an easy job.
No one else has it.
You just heard a sound in your ear that you got picked with this, FTM looks like he gets
it.
So he goes, he goes straight back and goes like left to right.
He did that perfectly.
But look at the second two people.
I don't care how good you are.
If you are like, wait, I just got this mechanic.
By the way, if I mess this up, we don't kill the boss.
And you don't know even which one your thing is, because the second person doesn't
move right away.
And now the other two people have both patterns and they don't even know who is who.
So like, like how do you, like right now what do you, I would say if this ever happens
two people are stacked up like this and the second person hasn't already started moving
and everyone's pixel stacked here, you just, you're just gonna blow up.
It's really hard.
That's like, and then no one moves.
the whole raid yeah that is a tough
This was like right out. Yeah, this is like 10 minutes after. This was before. No, I wasn't.
I mean, it could have been. I think this is actually the one thing that the
RaceWorld first viewers get the most wrong is I feel like it takes a guild until a guild
wipes really low on a boss for the hype to build that they can kill it.
When, for example, let's say Echo was at 0.5% on this boss, or Echo was at 40% on this boss,
my personal stress levels would not change because in either scenario, the next pull they
get into P4, it could die.
Kind of a prime example of that is we went from like, what, like 20% to zero?
It just takes a pull where everyone just does the thing, which is like relatively
trivial.
It's just really late in the fight to actually do it correctly.
But I feel like chat doesn't actually feel like that's true.
I feel like you could both be getting into P4 with the same amount.
One guild has a 40% pull, the other one has a 0.5% wipe, but chat would be like, dude,
the guild with a 0.5% wipe wherever it is, they'd be like, bro, they're fucking just,
they're about to win, they're so much better right now, but they're just looking at the
best number and they don't really, I mean it's complicated.
I'm not trying to like shit on people who don't really understand how this works,
but it's definitely the common opinion, it's very, very clueless.
So many people saying you were so far behind before you killed it. Yeah, I promise you Echo
did not think that. Tally was saying you guys played terrible and then just pulled out an
immaculate pull. I'm going to assume that that is an out of context one guy. That would
be an insane thing to say.
But yeah, I mean, like you said, the casual race world
first fan looks at poll count numbers.
And they look at current best boss percentage.
They don't really know what's going on.
I'm getting into it.
Damn, that's sad.
OK, but that's not what I wanted to see.
I don't care about the low percentage wipe.
I saw this live.
You guys said that they had a 6% wipe with everyone
alive the entire pole post hot fix for battle-resing people and them getting the light buff again.
That's what I want to see.
Everyone minus Genji.
Oh, well, that's not, okay, Max, here it is.
That's not, again, wiping at 6% with one person dead makes sense.
Actually, I think having one person dead the entire phase. It is probably impossible to go the boss
Oh god their casters just did him so dirty because like everyone saw it
Oh this would have been for the win
through this room
Nice means group the third one being done as well as the other side do the melody mark
Okay, tell the rest is dude this guy's a good caster by the way where he's talking right now the British dude
He's got he's got he's got a good like I watched a couple of their like lower wipes after we killed it
And he's just casting his fucking ass off bro
Like he's he said some just absolute loony tune shit like like the darkness will be
destroyed him and he was just saying some crazy ass shit but it went hard as fuck
complete marks in two yes this is looking very good nine percent of lure
right now charming taking a ton of damage the other side has to go down
zero goes down the rest is available for him they just need to do these marks
tenderly the crosses pair in the diamonds now get him in there guys get it
done who needs to go his teeth goes down all right here's what I don't get
Everyone's dunking on Jinji, which obviously I'm cool with that, but
Just because Jinji is the one that died but I mean didn't two people die before that phase even started
So there wasn't a Valoriz for him
I'm just bringing it up
Resusely as quickly as possible Charmy then disfans and turtles they are still gonna be able to transition
I think 2%. Oh, yeah, this is Astro free close Astro free
Dude, we even had some pushes where we almost,
I wish on the kill, we would have beat this cast.
Like what, they got 1.1% here?
What does ours get to?
I don't know why this happens on this specific VOD
on this website, but I'm pretty sure we almost like,
I think we almost beat it.
I'm into it.
Did you just help out?
HP, you're high.
You're buffed.
Yeah.
What is it?
You're high enough.
Look at the boss HP, 0.3, 0.2, dude, 1.6 million less.
1 million HP.
We were 1 million fucking damage total off of beating the Dark
Archangel cast.
Fucking yips.
Absolute fucking guardian drew a damage
Yeah, it's not even close wait, how did ginger even die?
Huh
It literally makes no sense. This is gonna be dirty clothes. Oh just the darkness debuff. I mean yeah, but like I mean that's kind of
I mean like for other people want to I mean
He had health stone and health pot dude, it's actually so fucked that everyone's like going back and like looking at every little small retroactive things
Also, like dude, I feel like Jinju's taking all the blame for this, but how is there not any blame on?
Yes, this is tank and warlock dying right before this and this is coming from someone that is
Like Jinji slander is welcomed right? I'm not I'm that's
In fact, that's kind of nice. I like that
But I'm just say it doesn't really make sense
It's sort of down into the other side has to be there Alex Zerbo goes down the rest is available for him
They just need to do these marks. It's I feel like he's getting the short end of the stick
The diamonds now get in in there guys get it done the T's need to go as teeth goes down
that's going to be their next combat res use as quickly as possible Charmy then
defense and turtles they are still going to be able to transition I think 2%
this is going to be dirty close they've got it through you know 100% dark wave
coming out they need to survive through this Gingy goes down they just do it in
time combat rest of in 30 seconds means Gingy won't be here for the damage at
at the start of the phase but they can bring him up phase for the secret
phase the mythic phase the one we did not believe existed here it goes 19
I'm pretty sure they wipe even with Genji alive here.
Nah, maybe not. 6%?
Whole face?
Uh, he might have done...
I don't know how much one player's tix does of the total boss HP.
Now, obviously you have a damage amp and he would have also been doing damage, but...
It's probably right around 6%.
So all 20 people, I mean we can actually figure this out, all 20 people I think do 63% of the
bosses HP?
Am I making that number up, something like that?
So 63 divided by 20, then it's whatever that is.
It's around 4%.
And then basically does his damage alone with the damage empty 3% of his HP?
not. I don't think there's any single DPS that would do 6% or 3% of this boss's HP with
just their damage. Maybe, actually maybe it is right around that number.
Darko's still up! Merr is fighting against Midnight! But like I said, the only reason
there wasn't a battle rest room is because two other people died, but people don't look
at that. It's just the person who happens to be dead at the end. It's fucked.
Yeah, but I feel like Genji's had like pretty good PR like I mean, especially when we started doing the race to world first bro like dude EU like the crazy EU fans like Genji was their actual goat like MDI champion race to world first god best player ever like when did that chain when did that change you know what I'm saying
I don't I don't have any idea what's happening in only things but
All right, well
the end the darkness wins 6.1% wait that would have been for world verse like they would
have won right well I mean we don't know if that one person would have yeah that's a
What time was this like what time was this in like NA time? It's 22 22
Whatever their server time is
Are we like
Awake at this point. It's like an hour before we killed it
Max for world first they had a 0.3 percent before you guys were
Is that true?
I mean, I don't I don't I thought the number was not I thought the I thought that was after
It was like literally right after we killed it. They had this super low one
That was for p3 not p4. Oh, yeah, like the previous day, but I mean that's kind of the same thing
They do both raid days were so interesting. It was like Demensius
Like the Demensius thing had only ever happened on fire act before and then Demensius basically happened two days in a row this race
That's like Blizzard couldn't even manufacture that if they tried it was just pure fucking luck
That they happened into like two days with 200k plus concurrent viewers perma
where the secret phase was discovered,
and then also the boss was killed.
Just insane Hyrule, whatever seed we're in right now.
Max it's at 38 hours 39 minutes 34 seconds on your video dude my goat my actual goat
Sometimes you just need to be do we need to look at damage again and that's probably what the
was oh is it the short of flipping this one please comes out perfectly time
star split is going to the side as well boss down to 60% HP as echo try and pump
they are going absolutely haywire right now we okay so yeah this is the pull
with everyone alive till the end right except not their way through these dogs
the ear laser is chasing them so far yet they've kept every alive one more
Blades out you'd take succinct. Absolutely. Hey, I'm now weaving their way through these dogs
The ear laser is chasing them so far. How do you know it gets every other?
That's not you just echo try and pump. I mean you could argue he could have shielded
But he has no health sewn up. He has no pot. He has altered, but you can't alter like as you're moving
This is like even if you're one of those people that goes back and looks at a death
And you like try to pick apart every single thing they could have done by the way while doing something very challenging
It's hard to do that perfectly. There's like no perfect while players than possible, right?
Even in that scenario, it's like I mean, I feel like he just
Certainly haywire right now weaving their way through these dogs the ear laser is chasing them so far yet
They've kept every alive one more blade
Jinji down Jinji takes a clip. They still have a combat rest available.
Splits is coming out. Jinji comes back up. They need to get these star splitters away
We've got about 20 seconds before the hard-in range heaven and hell coming out in two seconds
So do you guys notice something about this?
Jinji and Narko both died
and
They unfortunately do not have a very important debuff
So when they nerfed this boss didn't really
It did very slightly like it would never affect a kill or not a kill so like they basically did not nerf the boss
They
They made it that what that was was making it so when you res someone they got this light buff again
Also the evoker
every single time they've entered this phase moving out with the star, here comes the scythe
they've managed to have to hold the start in the middle there which has cost them a ton of players
Echo has managed to snipe everybody little bit of
10% as to what was going on as the dog died. I don't think I
Mean three buffs is a lot. Did anyone map this out? Do they do they kill this on this pole and
And get world first if Blizzard just had this working properly from the start
Is it enough
If that's true like holy fuck that is like that's got to be so tilting
No shot, that's 10%. Yeah, but maybe if like they get a 0.1% wipe instead of whatever, maybe
they're more motivated, they have more adrenaline and then that, you know what I'm saying, like
butterfly effect, affectionate, like they, they could have ended up killing it still
for world first because of that in a way. Like bro, we were, it was actually three
nights ago I think it was the night before the secret phase we were like doing what any guild is
prone to do which is just running it down mid and p1 for a bit and then we had like a really good pull
like a new best pull by a lot and everyone started playing so much fucking better like
communications up everything like bro you can't manufacture that it just happens or does it
You can literally do the math, it was enough damage, they lost 4 buffs.
Well they didn't lose 4 buffs entirely, right?
They're ticking on the entire raid.
Or you're seeing the math was done from like the single tick that they died.
Cause like, it's not like they were dead the whole phase.
They, I mean it already looks like all of them were alive for at least a quarter
of the phase minimum. Yeah dude they they did not yeah I don't know that's actually kind
of good because like I think if they did actually have the damage if this was just hotfix to
be working correctly earlier and then they didn't get world first because of that that
would be just massive till I don't I don't think what they end up like as the
dogs were coming in they've managed to have to hold the start in the middle there
which has cost them a ton of players echo has managed to
yeah I don't I don't think so I don't care enough to actually do the math but
it doesn't add up in my head three full buffs is 10 and a half percent oh then
like yeah I mean that's there's literally no way because they didn't even miss
three whole buffs they had probably if you add up the time that they had the
buffs it's probably worth one full buff right it's not like it all ticks at the
end it's like it happens continuously I think people are saying if they had no
deaths and they didn't snipe the whole raid with blazes so if they didn't wipe
you're saying what you're telling me is after you ran the math you found out
that if they didn't wipe they would have killed it that is I mean that's fucking
facts bro that is true if they would have done those mechanics properly they
would have won. Facts. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I would definitely
feel like the choke thing is a little harsh. I know this has happened twice in a row where
like they felt like they should have won and then we just kind of outpaced them. But like
I think it is hard like mentally when you are getting to the end of your day and people
naturally start fading because like they're just fucking exhausted and then you like slump a little
bit people start talking as much after pulls maybe there's some tilt going on and then your
opponent wakes up and gets a fat pull and if you know about it which if you're smart you don't
you're gonna start playing like dog shit you're gonna be like oh that's happening again this
happened last time. It can really get in your head and affect your play.
They don't value sleep enough. Yeah, yeah, we, someone should actually do the math on that. I don't,
I didn't follow it super closely, but we slept a lot more than they did this year. Like they,
like the first day of Mythic, they do some crazy fucking day. They, they did like a bunch of splits
and still just had a ton of hours. Like on resets, they like wake up at reset time and
like play a longer day and then like wake up at the normal time the next day again if we did that
our players would kill me in real life straight up I wouldn't be alive
but then they eventually they eventually like sleep normal amounts I think the same amount as
us it's just on reset days they do this like super crazy day and we never do that because I don't
don't want to die. Okay let's switch beats a little bit here and let's check
your all prediction on what you thought the race to world first raid comp would
be for midnight falls. You guys have had some good tiers where you got pretty
close. You cheated us. Oh, it's my fault then. It's my fault. You guys got it wrong.
Okay. All right, here we go. So in Airbar Palace, you guys got 16 right. Fucking massive
W that's actually really good. That is
That is extremely impressive. That's honestly, I think about as good as you're ever going to get
It's very solid. All right
Casino raid you got 12 things right
Was it a little like rare that we ended up playing five monks including three wind walkers in which you thought there were zero I
Mean they were that good. It's just their Sims were bad and you guys look at Sims for some reason
Even though that I'm not even gonna start that rant right now
But yeah, okay, so okay you had a down rate in the casino right fine. All right now mana forge
13 a step up
Not quite your narrow bar palace
glory
But like pretty solid double le pretty like who the fuck does double le you guys voted you guys put a hunter
Raid buff in your comp. What were you thinking right? So like some things?
and you just completely missed on the healer comp, which is very oftenly, oftenly, wow.
That's an insane proc. Very often the case. It's triple LA. Oh yeah, it is triple LA. True.
So now we're going to look at what you guys got right. So we did this on Illyria,
alleria
Because like you know, there's nothing to do for four days
So we just saw where we were at alleria and saw how many you guys got right got 13 again not a great mark
But also alleria is kind of a meme boss. So who cares? Let's see what it ended up being oh
This isn't looking good. I wait it is looking good, right?
I feel like this is looking better than I expected. I feel like Laura got okay
So what do we run for lower? We ran this, uh, we ran this. Oh, wait. No. Oh, it looks really bad. Uh, I'm comparing it to Illyria.
That's really, this is not looking good. This is, I think this is.
Because we have to actually compare it to like, here, I'll even remove this to make it easier. We're comparing it to this.
this is looking bad. Okay, we did end up running a rogue. So that's fun. I'll make this look
little easier here. Oh, no. There's another next to each other, you know. We need half
credit on blood? No. You were wrong. I did make you guys choose Og or Dev. Is it unfair?
Not really because they're both DPS but also Augs of Support and I decide what's fair.
Okay, Ellie, Hunter, yes you got that warlock double warlock. Okay, singular mage and what
else do we play? Something, we played something. Oh yeah, Rhett, Chungus. Alright, let's see
what you guys got right. Tank comp completely fucking goofed it. What are you thinking?
All right, healer comp. You got your first class right and your second class right,
but unfortunately missed on the other two. You guys thought we were gonna play a fucking holy
paladin? Explain. Explain. What do you mean? What do you mean we were gonna play a holy paladin?
This was end of heroic week. Like you, right, like, and like, hold on.
What are we doing here?
And was Rep Paladin looking bad after Heroic Week?
or something? I mean, Rep Paladin's like, I mean, Prop Paladin is actually terrible, but
like, I mean, Rep Paladin's chilling. They're looking great. They're like a upper middle of
the pack class. And then Holy Paladin's horrible and Prop Paladin's horrible. I feel like, do
we at least think that it is, you guys should have probably got this. I think you should
probably got this. I think it's okay for all of us to admit when we've messed up sometimes.
I feel like you all messed up a little bit on that one. It's okay. Some of you guys were trying to
put red in the comp, but the rest of the chat did not believe you. But that's how it goes.
You guys are a hive mind. You have to work together. Okay. So you guys got rogue right,
which you did not only area crazy you would think that we would play a raid buff
you had single DH right excellent you miss double DH though you thought we were
gonna play a DPS warrior which DPS warriors fine
they're fine
DK you guys thought we would run one DK fax we ran two but we did definitely run
one. You thought we would run one AWK. You got that right, too. You thought we would run an LA,
you got that right. You thought we would run a Shadow Priest. Ooh, we did not do that. Unfortunately,
they can't really move, and there are 100 Blades on that fight. You thought we'd run two Hunters.
Okay, you kind of nailed that. That was smart. I don't know if you guys did that based on
Sims or whatever, or if, I mean, so this, Hunter was a super slam dunk, honestly, because
Because if you knew there was a Denathrius split phase mechanic where there was two separate
bosses, which was just simply written in the fucking dungeon journal, it is obvious that
you'd need two Hunter's Marks.
So I don't know if that's what made you all come to that conclusion, but that was right.
It's also a large reason why there's double DH.
And then two Warlocks, now this was, I think, just because you guys thought Warlock was strong.
For what it's worth, D.M.O. was nerfed a bit before or after you guys voted on this.
But you didn't end up still getting this right.
And then you did not guess Rhett, and you did get Mage, oh, has a 12 again.
Two Gates, I mean, you don't need Gate.
Right?
It's like a very slight damage loss to Knotgate.
It's almost as if this is really hard to predict.
Really?
I feel like if I would have tried to predict it, I would have gotten this pretty good.
right. What would I have gotten wrong? What did we run on Lora that if you were to ask
me beginning of the tier, I would have been wrong? Tank comp, well, okay. We were running
double Guardian on every boss until they nerfed them the Monday before Mythic. Because
they were just, I mean, they used to do like, I think they got nerfed by like 30
or 40% DPS the day before Mythic came out. Not even on the Friday before Mythic,
the day before. So I would have guessed double guardian, but that would have been without
dated information. At the beginning of heroic week, I would have not guessed that we actually
ran a single monk, maybe one monk, because you wanted to play one monk on vanguard because
of the revival requirement of you just need one monk for that fight. I wouldn't
of guest two monks. I think we were pretty locked in on like double prez until they nerfed it and
then we were pretty locked in on like it was like double prez double disc or double prez monk disc
and then monk throughout her oak we went from zero to one to two. Hunters were I mean we had seven
hunters for prepared for bad guards so hunters were obviously a lock we were planning on two.
Ellie is the only viable shaman buff in the race. Two Augs was a lock, although
you could have ran more. We ran three Augs on a few bosses this tier. Aug is
extremely broken. Two DHS, you kind of need two KS brands, so that's in the
comp. Rogue is, we didn't know a ton about midnight falls, but we assumed that
a lot of the damage would be sourced to the boss instead of the environment,
so you kind of just figured Rogue would have to be extremely bad on a
boss that is most likely attributing its damage to itself to not play.
because the trophic poison is just crazy. Imagine just progressing an emboss without a 3% passive
VR on your whole raid. Most embosses, that would just be a completely ridiculous thought.
They would have to be terrible. And they were fine with that fight.
DKs, you just assumed you needed grips. So I have a couple of those prepared.
We wanted to play 3 DPS DKs. They're very good damage on that fight.
Max, whose idea was it to bring Trill in for the bird?
I think a mixture of Lummel and Bubba.
Max, didn't you guys run 500 on Vanguard? Was that planned?
Well, of course.
You can't just be like, oh, whoops, Hunter's really good.
Let's play these Hunters that have no gear. You can't do that.
The answer to that is always yes, because they were geared specifically for that reason,
or else they wouldn't have been geared enough to do it.
And then Rhett was the only viable Paladin buff.
So Rhett's the only viable Paladin buff, Ellie's the only viable Shaman buff for the race.
Anything outside of the race, everything's viable all the time.
Yeah, I guess double Warlock was more of a, it just seemed like between the three
specs of Warlock there's always something that's really good.
that ended up being true. Max, in hindsight, do you now think it's the most optimal comp
or would you have made some changes? Well, the boss changed a little bit. So before the
For the secret phase, you had to do like 3% less boss damage.
In which case you would always play Rogue.
As soon as the secret phase happened, I think if you were to know what the fight was from
the start, I don't know if you would play Rogue because their damage is like a lot worse
than like maybe another DK or another AUG.
But that's just for like the world first race, like starting even the reset that happened
today, like you would just never set a Trophic Poison.
You're talking about very thin margins.
I mean, like the best damage comp for consistently getting into the last phase with like all
your cooldowns is like definitely singular Guardian Druid, probably second disc.
But we didn't think relearning would make sense at that point.
Second disc over monk probably.
But like you don't need that much damage.
I know it sounds stupid, but like, I mean, we weren't playing a disc and like a disc
over a monk is definitely like pretty solid raid DPS.
Not as much as Guardian over Blood Decay.
But they went disc over Restor Druid, which is a massive jump.
actually does some damage so something like this yeah maybe I don't know
how much relearning with the second disc had been if combined with the last
minute bare swap the last minute bare swap required exactly zero relearning
very surprised by that if I knew that we would have played at the previous day
instantly literally everything was easy dropping a DK it made no sense
Yeah, when I have a, let's see, Max, you talked to Blizzard to see how they designed the boss
to be killed versus your strat? Are there little tricks? I mean, no. I think at BlizzCon,
I was chopping it up with an encounter designer and he told me, like I asked him that exact
question and I think he had like a few examples.
The I don't think this raid, there would be anything like that, though.
Like there is no like other way to kill Laura.
There's just like maybe the P two strat was different than what they imagined.
But P three is like, I mean, there's only like really one way to do it.
P four, there's really only one way to do it.
Maybe they ran left instead of right.
Now, Illyria last phase, I imagine, was different than what they prepared.
The gateway to a different platform in a 0.5 second window to spawn the ad on the correct
platform, that didn't, I do not think that they intended that.
Did you think they imagined you two-phasing Bellerin?
I mean, I assume so,
because like on the first day on heroic,
people were one-phasing it.
We were one-phasing it on heroic.
So I imagine they had to,
I mean, they're giving you a boss
where you can potentially choose
to not progress a third phase of the fight
by just adding damage.
making the other phases harder. I mean for us it was a no-brainer. I don't know if
doing a third phase of that boss would have been humanly possible, but Lauren was
so hard. The bird phase of Beloran is crazy as fuck and in the last phase
it's four quills and there's more orbs and there's like different orb
patterns. Like I don't even know if we could have even done it. Like we
basically looked at it as like there's, we're barely even able to do the
second Belorin phase. I don't even think the last phase is possible. So even though it sounds
cursed, we have to kill this boss in two eggs because the other option is not viable.
Max, why on P2 do you have to change the line position for the basketball soak? Why
Why not just go to the marker every time?
Because it doesn't, they don't all rotate evenly.
If you do that all in the same way, maybe you can split the difference and always go
on the marker and it will always hit.
But it just looks sketchy.
So it's like kind of in between two planets.
So if you're off of like a pixel, would hit the other one.
Max, why is Moonkin not used at all?
Because you are, because Guardian's like just insane damage
from a tank.
Like basically the reason that you don't play Moonkin
is because Guardian is so good.
Like, Moonken's fine.
It's just Guardian is like, when you're bringing a raid buff,
you look at raid DPS, it's like, OK, how much worse
is Moonken in the single best class you would bring here?
It's like, OK, it's like 10k, whatever.
But it's like, how much are you gaining of raid DPS
if I play a Guardian over something else?
It's massively more.
So it's like, Moonken has no chance.
Like, Moonken could even be among the best DPS in the game,
but you know it's always going to be worse raid damage overall to play a moonkin over a guardian if you have access to everything so you just don't play it, it's just guardians is just too good.
Which is by the way like really weird like that that's a thing, but
yeah, I don't know basically as soon as you have a raid buff
you are now competing with every other spec for a DPS spot which there's a lot of DPS specs and not that many raid spots so it's just hard.
Max, why are you not using Farrell? Same reason as Moonkin, it's just not good enough after
you already have a Druid buff. I do enjoy the pre-raid single target Sims that makes
people think Farrell is going to be brought every single tier only for people to not
understand how anything works in thinking about Sims at all ever.
Max, when you first saw the secret phase,
did you think that phase would take this long to kill?
I know you guys took like a 15 minute break after seeing it.
Yeah, immediately we were like coping and we were like, dude, the phase is super free.
It's like some Lich King shit, bro.
Just everyone's got to be alive and then it just like basically kills itself.
We had like a 33% thing datamined.
We're like, yo, maybe it dies at 33%.
Turns out that datamining was like the auto phase transition on the heroic version of the
boss.
If you like do too much damage in P1 or P2 maybe.
Um, no, it's P1, uh,
yeah, I don't know.
We like coped a little bit.
Cause obviously if the phase was really hard, we got fucked.
Like just timing fucked.
Like, okay, let's spend the whole day progressing this really hard phase.
That's almost impossible to even get to only for a competition to wake up on
a fresh day with all this information that is, if you were to craft a
scenario that is extremely bad, it is that it is the worst thing you
do, actually. And that's what we were doing. And all of us know that. So we're like, this fucking sucks.
And yeah, I just felt like
really bad. But then we were like, okay, the phase is free. And then we saw it a little more and
we're like, okay, it's not really as free. Then we did some math and we're like, no, it's kind
of free. And then we're like, well, it's not really free because you just never get there.
And then we woke up and killed it. It was amazing.
I'm going to put a number on it, but we are feeling it was great, losing would have been
bad and we did not lose when we woke up so it was great.
Why are feral sims misleading?
All sims are misleading. Sims are created to sim your talents and your gear and things
to optimize your current character, maybe what stats are best, stuff like that. That's
it. That's what they were created for. But what idiots do is they try to use extremely
different quality sims across every spec in the game and assume that is a good indicator
for what class balance will be when they when they come out. And by the way, all those sims are five
minute no movement single target sims, which are what I could not possibly imagine is a bigger meme.
And it's still, I'll say this now and next year, every opinion when you guys rank these is going
to be purely based off of just irrelevant information. It's extreme beast shit.
to be fair, it's either that or just guessing. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, it's the only
thing you have it's just like known to not be accurate.
Max, how is you getting to P4 right before bed different than Echo going to getting P3
right before bed. Wait, you mean how is us getting P4 right before they go to bed versus
echo getting P3 right before they go to bed? I think that's what you're saying? There is
no difference. It's the exact same thing. Us getting there or them getting there doesn't
matter. What matters is, so the race is interesting, right? Like, here's basically
what happens. Basically, near the end of these races, there's a little bit of luck
involved. Here is the start of the race, and here's the, down here at the bottom
left and here or I guess here's maybe it will start from the top left because
that's like you could look at it as like boss HP tech okay so here's
progressing the end boss right so we're like doing this and we start ahead of
echo and then like naturally usually when we get to the end boss not really
the case this year because we did more splits and stuff but like echo starts
later and then they're gonna progress a little faster because they have some
information and we're gonna hit a roadblock and they're gonna wake up
on a fresh day and then now they're getting it lower than us and now
We're asleep right but whatever okay, so echo keeps getting it lower and now now we wake up
And we have information and we fucking shoot ahead of them
And then this just repeats and repeats and repeats and we keep going lower and we keep stealing everyone's a thief
We're all stealing from each other and then naturally you're just trying to get the boss is zero percent by doing this flip-flop thing
Over and over again. These are the two guilds and yeah, it does look a lot like DNA
Okay, and then a guild gets here and then like getting to the very end is hard and the other guild wakes up and they're like
Okay, fuck it. We'll come down here to you fuck that
And then this keeps happening and then let's just say at any point you were to cut off the race
We'll just do a red line. Let's say
When the boss was naturally gonna die is not at the bottom and it's actually right here. We lose
Now what happens if we get to the pain is so much worse than my little magic pen. I should have used my magic pen
fuck or what happens if the race ends right now I forget which line we are
but right here okay now we win yay we win we like winning oh controls e dude
so so true so true okay it's just like a little random and like basically what it
would have been as soon as echo went to bed and like p4 doesn't die before they
wake up it just means that like the end of the race would most likely and just from experience would most likely end up in a
situation where like
The end is most likely gonna favor their flip-flop where sometimes it favors our flip-flop sometimes we wake up with good information
They're getting tired. We're fresh. We have great pulls. They get tilted. They're tired. They're hungry whatever and like and then we win
Almost based on like just the timing of when these last bosses are going to die
Some bosses aren't as hard and they die over here
And sometimes they die all the way down here because they're insane and like it just kind of depends on what can be stolen
And when so basically when we we got to that phase
It doesn't matter if it was us or them the fact that we were going to progress that phase for the rest of the day
Because we were both basically at the same point. They could have saw it first for sure, right?
It just it just meant that we were going it was most likely a scenario where we were going to be cooked
Which it was and should have been for sure
Does that answer your qu- does that like make sense?
Max, how did you manage traffic rules for the last memory game in P3 with no comms?
I'll show you.
Let's check this shit out. Midnight falls. Let me show you the orientation I used. It was not
super static. Each group kind of came up with their own thing that they liked.
So this one's obvious. So
So the circle triangle T. So in this scenario, I always had the first, okay, so they spawned
next to each other. That was pretty easy. You don't have to do this move. Let me actually
do a different one because they, okay, so, oh, this is last one. I'll go over that in
a second. It's like the first one of the phase. I think they get the first memory
Yeah, it's like right now the first one is diamond
Diamonds the the rule here is the first group waits for the constellation
And then they meet under the boss so they would go here and they would go here
And no one else moves if you have a one of these other mechanics you are banned from fucking moving
We actually had a few wipes for people who tried to like get out of the way, but then you just like crash into someone else
so
um
Then after that the teas go to go together and then if we're slow
So, the last group here, the circles could wait until the constellation to go away, and
you still have one second after to do it.
Can you touch non-marked people?
Yeah, you can run over non-marked people, but if you don't connect these in the correct
order, it's an instant raid wipe, and if any of the markers run into each other that
are not the same marker, you instantly die.
It's like Star Augur.
Bro, this boss had
Demensius Raid Split,
Star Auger Marks,
a fucking memory game for the first time ever,
Glaives probably the single hardest mechanic ever in P1, just fucking insane.
And, and Firak seeds the whole fight.
That is like,
they basically just took like every single famous hard mechanic and just slapped it on a fight.
This is why last week,
Everyone's like bro liquid's gonna go in there on Tuesday and
Just like kill everything before you get the reset and I'm sitting here like bro if we kill that boss in one day
Something insane has happened because it could be easy and it would still be hard. You know what I mean like
There's it's so like talk about binary pass fail things like literally doing anything if you lose a single player in the first like
Three minutes of this fight that pulls instantly over
You don't have enough kicks to even possibly kick terminate unless you play a rest or shaman which you shouldn't do that
And even assigning backups for those is like how the fuck you even do that
You don't have a crazy week or a solution anymore
You can't do a really good interrupt macro or interrupt like
week or like you used to
Okay, so that's how this worked.
phase. Okay. Our last part of P3. Okay, so you get the four marks. They're T triangle circle x. So
that means T goes first. How we assigned this is like, if you notice some people are closer to the
boss, like the exact circle we're spreading around is like this, and clearly
these people are farther from the boss than these people. So the rule was if you
are farther away from the boss you run to the person who is closer to the boss
and no one else moves. So how this should be done is this person goes
here and then after this happens triangles this person would go here
then circles would go here to here, and then Xs would go here to here.
Now this is not completely optimal because this involves usually ranged moving to melee,
which is like technically a DPS loss, because like most melee can hit from range and most range
lose damage from moving. Did you just draw basketball? Yep. And that's basically how we
did it. This was the first idea we had, and I don't think it's like the best idea or whatever.
It's just like, there's like probably five or six ways you could come up with some kind
of convention for this that are all very similar and you just have to choose one and never
change it so no one's ever confused and that's just what we did. Because you can't
meet in the middle. If you meet in the middle, you double cleave this person, which
is bad anyway because they almost one-shots you. And then also this person has a seed
So then you would spawn soaks everywhere, which we unfortunately do on some poles,
but it's still a little confusing.
So they go there, they go there, circles go there, fire dev goes here, and then they're good.
And then on the other side, using liquid armory, I can instantly swap point
of views right before the other side's mechanic.
This group never got quite as good of a spread.
They also didn't get the mechanic as much.
They never got as good at it, but they have X first.
So how this would work, X already went.
And then after this we on this one the constellation timer is really tight. So
We don't have the people go right away. So we do the first one and then we wait. So this time chungus whole
Went to thd
This is just like this group. This doesn't follow the same sequence
but
This guy loses no damage from running off the boss basically and thd loses damage while moving
So they just had an agreement that like hey if it's ever like me and you all come to you
Which is
Probably a little confusing for most players. I maybe don't recommend that you do that, but for us the optimization really mattered
And then what's the second one after these teas then we get
Diamonds so that would be jargi moving on top of chungus life except jargi's just not moving
See, yeah, so this is a problem. So jargi just waits too long. He should just go
I'm literally telling him to go right now
Actually, I might have said wait for constellations, but obviously you don't have to wait for a constellation
That's not in between you and the person you need to change on so wall life is probably thinking like yo
When's this one's this little yargi idiot gonna gonna come over here
He's taken too long and then yargi waits for the constellation to go away
To start moving but then he moves and now they've cleared on top of the seed person creating soaks
This is very dangerous, but you can kind of figure it out
and then
Yeah, then we ended up getting the two circles to go together, but these soaks are like not too bad in this
face, okay, and then Zevi died because
because I believe visuals on this fight are bad.
Let's see.
Oh yeah, look at this.
You wanna see why Zevi dies?
You guys remember when we drew the lines
through the constellations earlier?
Right, about how exactly they pick people
and it's like, by the way,
this is the other group's constellation.
But guess what?
Guess where there's a consolation circle you can't see
because it's under this light siphon?
It's right here.
And in three, two, one, our priest is dead.
Yay.
Ha, ha, ha, ha.
So yeah, visuals on this fight.
Major difficulty increase, unfortunately.
Max, did you guys also have someone from outside the raid clicking on icons in order like Echo,
or did your players click keybinds?
No, we had our players do it.
We thought about outside the raid.
You can see Zevi's doing it right now.
Zevi is calling it.
So I don't think he's looking at the markers.
He's probably calling what I'm saying.
But yeah.
Zevi clicks X right now.
He clicks T right now.
He clicks Diamond right now.
He dies, because he's clicking while a thing is completely invisible,
which is great.
But I mean, he clicked this most of the time and didn't die,
mostly because he could see it.
It looks like healers and tanks.
Yeah, it's because of P1.
We thought about the analyst thing,
but it was just we don't want to have an analyst just
like chained to their computer doing this.
They could probably be more useful.
Our healers and tanks felt like it wasn't hard to do from being in the raid and doing it
So we did that also
We thought that even though what we were doing was completely above board and we told Blizzard how we were gonna use raid chat for maybe a
tool like this a few months ago they
We knew that it was gonna look really bad on
Stream and I mean it did like like people saw it and immediately it was like this huge deal
even though it was like the most basic thing ever but like when you look at it
initially you're like it looks like some automated Archimonde bullshit so you're
like holy fuck this is not above board right and then we thought okay this
tool is really great we have this this will really help us win and we don't
really want Blizzard to be that mad about it because it's like it's like
people in a raid communicating with each other right but as soon as you have
someone outside the raid do it, I could see Blizzard being infinitely more mad at you doing
that.
And that wouldn't ever result in us them banning us or anything.
It would just maybe make them try to nuke it or something, and then that would affect
us negatively.
So, we didn't do it for the reason that it would be annoying.
It would waste an analyst and then also it was, it, we didn't want to piss those
it up. Max, picking disk over holy, is it purely DPS decision or is disk just better
for the damage pattern? I mean disk is just better than holy. You can just leave it at
I don't understand how they nuked your P1 kick tracker, but not Echoes.
That looked way worse to me honestly.
What?
You don't know why they nerfed the mobs all having like a crazy fucking unique identifier
over their nameplate?
Like, I feel like that was the most broken ass looking shit.
Like it was, all it was doing was basically just automatically marking them.
It just looked so stupid that I think Blizzard was like,
yeah, this looks so bad.
Dude, it's so funny.
We literally, I can show you what we sent them
a few months ago.
The exact picture.
Let me see if I can find, this is gonna be quite a scroll.
Yeah, here it is.
Hey, Blizzard, here's what we're doing.
Basically, because you can't automatically mark things anymore,
we found a way to basically just like on any random targets,
just display some information about the target that isn't secret,
that just simply allows you to distinct,
like make them distinct from one another for
marking like automatic marking reasons.
They saw this and they acknowledged that they saw it.
And, you know, they were, whatever, like, yeah, we get it, thank you, thank you for reporting this.
And then it was like right after we showed this on, let me see if I can find this.
When did we get to...
When do we pull, like, these raids?
Rades, is it trying to find the other message?
Oh, yeah.
How are you accomplishing the behavior here,
showing up at the interrupt tracker?
Oh, that's a different thing.
Yeah, they're like number.
And then we told them, and they fixed that.
It was before this.
But it was funny, they were like, upon seeing this in action, we actually hate this.
And yeah, then you're dead.
You should have seen the caster's reaction when you guys showed this off.
It was hilarious.
Ooh, actually, I kind of do want to watch that.
Wait, where did it, sorry.
Where's the echo Q&A?
Was it on their stream?
They absolutely just need to keep their heads here. They've lost a person every single time they've...
And I just like couldn't find it earlier today?
Scribe did it on his channel. Oh, yeah, I don't usually react to that.
Mac, is this going to be the new norm sending Blizz screenshots to see how far you can push
add-ons?
That's not really what we're doing.
Basically, there's just ways to get around secret values, which they clearly hid so you
couldn't do crazy shit with it.
And there's still some crazy shit you can't do to be clear.
But yeah, we basically don't want to be in a position where we don't prepare these things
than our opponents do and then apparently it's okay and then we're in a bad spot. We basically
prepared everything we thought was possible but obviously we don't want to be using this shit so
we're like hey we're planning on using this uh is this okay and then also if you want to fix it
here's exactly how it works and they fixed a ton of shit based on our reporting to them
which I think is good for everybody uh and then yeah but I mean we kind of can't be in that
position we can't prepare that stuff and then not ask them if it's okay and then use it and
and then like get banned.
That's not an option, right?
So you have to have to do something.
How does it feel being the back to back to back
champions of wow?
It feels, honestly, every win feels the same.
It does not feel more significant
every time we win in a row.
Every time you win,
it means you're not depressed for six months
and there could be no higher stakes than that.
So it doesn't matter if it's like consecutive,
it's like, oh, it's like relief.
Max thoughts on echo having a 10% wipe or one player didn't move with blast prior to you getting the kill
It's like what that guy said earlier
It's like max how did it feel that echo could have killed the boss before you kill before you killed it
But then they messed up and didn't
Like well, I well first of all, I guess I that's awesome
Like I'm glad that happened right because that would have been not good if they did kill it
But I mean also to kill a boss usually you need to have people not kill your whole raid. That's kind of the point so
Like literally the entire last phase is just not having one person kill your whole raid. That's just what it is
Max with how good wind walker is in damage amp scenarios was there any thought to bring
it in the last season like a dam I don't know it no there was not a thought of bringing
when Walker names your question do you fear that if echo keeps on losing they will disband
nah I think they would maybe disband if they were getting shit on like if you keep losing
and like you're getting fucking smoked and you don't have a chance then maybe like I could
see that being true of us like if we lose a raid but I thought we played really well
and someone else was just better we wouldn't die but if we ever did a raid and like everything
went wrong and we were trash like I don't know we could die because like what are we
even doing here you know if that's the case like what would we have to change for
this not to be true if it went that poorly so um yeah I don't know I don't really
I think so, Echo's been really good, so no.
What's your favorite moment this race?
The Shaq wordle thing?
Yeah, the Shaq wordle thing is one of the funniest things
that's ever happened in my life.
That is very funny.
You don't think they risk losing sponsors? No, funny enough, the race to world first esport is
and getting sponsors and stuff is actually like kind of just based on viewership and hype and
interest because that's actually what makes you money and because you don't get a single thing
for winning at all. You just need that all right like and uh and business is good so I imagine
and they'll be fine.
Max of Echo or another guild got world first.
Would you ever tell the raid right away
or wait to keep morale high?
Yeah, we'd definitely like, you know,
talk for a few minutes, talk about the tier, probably take a long break if it's in the
middle of the day, because obviously what are we even doing now, it doesn't matter.
And then if it was even past 10 p.m. at night, which we normally raid until midnight, we
would instantly just end our raid and just start again tomorrow.
Because as soon as you lose world first, everything's irrelevant, and people are
really exhausted and would like to sleep, so.
Max echo keep pulling the boss when other guilds killed it. They don't take a break. Yeah, I've always find that very fascinating about them
We mentioned that I talked about this earlier, but I don't
Apparently their players vote to keep going or not and that means their players are voting
Yes, which is just they are just built crazy different than us because if we put a vote up at fucking midnight after losing to continue pulling
after we've already lost the answer would be all 20 people saying no and if I even questioned that they would kill me in real life
And I don't I don't understand what the difference is between the two guilds in that way
But it's it is a noticeable difference I don't really understand it
Max, it was frustrating to watch you guys take so many breaks before you guys won.
Some of those breaks were not planned.
We actually had a player who was not feeling well.
They were like literally throwing up.
So, I mean, get back in your chair.
Like, you know what I'm saying, like, what are you, what are you going to do?
Dude fucking throwing up mid-pole, like, you know, so, yeah, I mean, can you
can't really do anything about that. And then, yeah. So the thing is, we've learned this before,
like even in this scenario where we have been in this dementia situation, and literally a day
before we actually won, we were in this situation, we're like, I mean, hey, you're in a, you're in a
battle for first and lunch, it's lunchtime. What do you do? You keep pulling, okay, what happens
an hour from now? What happens two hours from now? And now your polls are getting exponentially
worse because everyone's hungry, which is probably even worse than being tired as far as your
performance. So like the you can't at some point you just have to do it right. Also for people who
were at home, they are people for people at home they like have to order food and has to be there
at a certain time people at the EU facility and a facility the food is made at a certain time if
you do it an hour or two later eating cold food you know saying like that you kind of just
have to eat lunch also breaks are not a negative thing I have people feel like race
First viewers are just like why would you ever break like bro breaks are so OP you come back from a break and you just straight fuck bosses like
Bray break giving these people a break to like walk around and come back to their computer on such an insanely hard fight
They play so much better
And
Yeah, I mean I mean obviously viewers don't understand that and I mean also there was one awkward moment
It was before we knew there was a secret phase and we were like both echoed us for wiping really low
And we went to take our lunch and I have to do ad reads during my lunch break
And like I'm sitting here and I know that all of chat is like
Just like how are they taking a break? I don't understand you could lose it any moment
How how are you possibly doing this?
And then I like unmute my mic to my stream or I mute my team speak just to talk straight to my stream like hey guys
Let me like tell you about our clothes. I
Have you ever heard about liquid armory? What about alien wear and they're just like bro
Are you fucking kidding me right now? Like you're like this is happening and you're you're talking you're doing it
That's bad right now.
Max, in terms of nerfs for wind chime,
do you think it would have been an over nerf
if they made the interrupts stunnable and silenceable?
I mean, yeah, that would have been a massive nerf.
Yeah, to P1.
It's really hard to do those kicks.
like really fast. Dude, it's so funny before your rates started everyone's
telling I had a run to your hotel to wake you guys up hours early. Yeah, I mean
people just don't understand like yeah there's sleep and breaks are the race to
world first viewers kryptonite they just have no concept of how that works or
why you would do those things but it's like dude echoes about to echoes like
having really good polls that means you should wake up after you stayed up two
hours late we stayed up two hours late and started our raid one hour late so
we ended up losing an hour of sleep that we normally get and what we're
gonna lose two more hours of sleep by the way after people like drink
caffeine to stay up to like go all night and like like and they probably slept
like three or four hours because they thought they might lose like oh yeah
let's let's just wake them up even earlier and just come in and just not
be able to even pull the boss because you'll be so bad at it you know like
people just don't understand like dude when you wake up after a fresh good
sleep. You're performing just so much better.
Like basically look at it this way like when we are choosing to like sleep as
long as we do we are weight making what we believe is the decision that will
help us kill the boss as fast as possible.
for us. So like, you don't really think about another team as much in that scenario, you're just like, what is going to kill the boss faster for us? And oftentimes getting an extra hour of sleep will actually have you kill the boss faster than not.
not. Max, are you guys taking a fuck ton of creatine after all the recent research about
how good it is for brain power? I know, I know we've been using creatine for a few races.
Our players, I remember like if you, people have gotten like headaches while playing the
game and then like they'll just like slam a shitload of creatine and feel amazing
After they like shit their brains out because like if you mix caffeine and creatine, it's like not great. But uh, but yeah, you like
You it does does help headaches a little bit
um
And then yeah, I mean I did I creatine blasted one day
I was feeling a little down one day talked to nada about it and she was like, yeah
I didn't know you don't normally take this much creatine. I take five milligrams for like, uh, like athletic performance
But I've never like blasted like 15 to 20
before and it was noticeable. Like it was when you're when like late into a day
and you're already just peak exhausted from doing this for so long like it is
uh it is very sale like it is noticeably better.
Max, Echo and Liquid were total opposite on breaks. Echo were constantly pushing to cut
breaks and food short, and you guys weren't letting that happen. I would love to cut our
breaks short, but again, I make most of the decisions in the guild under the premise
that I don't want the raiders to kill me in real life.
And we've tried to shorten our breaks
before in previous tiers, and they want me dead.
So I've learned that clearly that's important to them,
and it helps them reset.
And certain breaks aren't long enough
to actually eat food or actually mentally
reset from the poles.
So yeah.
Who are you the most afraid of killing you?
I mean you're basically asking like I mean this the killing thing is like obviously hyperbole like who gets the most upset about like
shorter break times
Probably I mean this tier Yipps was definitely Yipps was just like over this tier because we had just been playing for like so long
But that wasn't like anything to do with anyone, but also like EU
Has their food ready at a certain time?
It was like pre-made because like obviously during our dinner time
It's like in the middle of the night for them
They don't have a chef there in the middle of the night
So they have food that they heat up in an oven and then they eat and like it's ready at a certain time and
like if what the Yip's got mad about was
It's like dinner time the race isn't going to end anytime soon and like we had a good pull and
And Boomi is like, and this is good, you need these people to go.
Boomi is like, just keep doing pull timers.
Like let's just keep pulling the boss.
And he did one at like 7.04 PM and we just did an extra pull and that made
you it's really mad.
And I think that was valid too.
Like we talked about it afterwards and we're like, yeah, we shouldn't have done that.
And which, which made sense.
Um, but I don't think who's most likely to kill you basically who complains the most about I mean definitely Sarri when he was here like Sarri if you stayed up a minute past your bedtime for any reason we were all dead.
We were all fucking dead.
But now he's in Echo. Yeah, exactly. Which is like, we talk about that all the time. Like,
that was literally what we were talking about in current Raiders yesterday, because we were
like, they lost and then now they're playing into the middle of the night. And like, bro,
If we ever did that in our guild, he would kill all of us.
In game, right?
No.
No, not in game.
kill. Did he leave or get replaced? Kiga offered from Echo and we didn't match it. Like basically
Echo offered him more money than we pay any of our players and we just didn't think it
It would be fair to pay him that over our other players,
so we didn't do that.
But I think he also just like maybe wanted to go there.
I don't know, like I,
like it, for some Europeans playing on NA
doesn't really matter.
Maybe you're degenerate and you stay up all night anyway,
and then it's like NA hours doesn't really bother you.
But,
They, some Europeans live in more normal lifestyle and maybe they like have some friends on EU that they play with and like it's really hard to juggle an EU account and an NA account and have an EU sleep schedule and play NA farm times.
And I think that he was one of those people where that just like didn't work very well for him.
But, yeah, is Echo able to compete on salary?
I mean, I know generally speaking over the past few years, we have definitely been able to pay our players more.
I don't know what their pay structure is as far as per player, if it's tiered or whatever.
But I know that the average raider in our guild, this is maybe outdated information.
information at least as of a year ago. This was true makes more and it used to be significantly more.
Um, but yeah, they made it. I don't know if they like are paying Sarri a lot more than they pay the rest of their players because like healers are super hard to find or like they they wanted to entice him to join and maybe that would really help them.
I'm not actually I don't know anything about their financial situation, but yeah
Max at this point is winning or getting second actually affect income for the guild
um
Like in the short term no, but like I feel like when it comes to
Resigning with team liquid. I think winning absolutely matters like team liquid prides themselves on winning like they I think they care about winning more than like every other
NA eSports org they fucking are obsessed with that shit
So like I think it would affect their ability to resign us which would give us more value
Which would make us more money so in that way yes, but we are just getting off like a five or six-year deal with them so like
In between that time like when we weren't resigning with them, I don't think it really would have mattered no
Because like your viewership is kind of the same either way
Max, has anyone left or been cut since winning this tier?
No, we were happy with the people this tier.
At least personally, I don't think we're going to demote anyone, but maybe that's wrong.
Sometimes people getting demoted isn't because they're doing anything wrong, it's because
they don't feel a very specific niche for the guild anymore.
Also, if you're not constantly recruiting to improve your roster, even if you're
happy with your roster you're like falling behind right if there's if there's talent out there
but yeah currently no we're pretty happy with our whole guild so
does someone other than you make roster calls yeah all the all the officers do that
Did you argue you passed this trial?
We don't do trials.
Who are the officers in liquid?
Me and Scott are co-gms.
And then, I mean, that's not the question you asked.
Me, Scott, Nick, Boom, Zasevi, Bubba, Lummel.
door of on.
Did I nail that?
Did I nail that shit? I think I did.
Does tags count tags has not been around the guild for years, but that tags was an officer
Ben was an officer.
Ben still has officer rank in our discord now even though he hasn't played here in over
a thousand days.
He's a he's a he's just still there fucking pipes up every now and then.
But also we just play games all the time.
Max, do you happen to remember who you benched during Holander's because of poor bomb performance?
Yes.
Have you considered putting hopeful on a different class because you already have fired up on
mage, how do you decide which one to run. I mean, yeah, I mean, if there's a tier where
we think mage is terrible and you're only running one for the raid buff, we could absolutely
have hopeful play something else. We have a few classes that make sense for that. But
this tier and like most tiers, you like kind of always want two mages ready to go,
So he'll probably end up playing Mage like 90 plus percent of the time.
Him and Firenep work really well together, as far as I can see.
How do you avoid players from getting burnt out?
You try to not make them make 20 characters when an expansion comes out, but unfortunately
we're not doing very well at that right now.
Why did you bench hopeful for Lura?
We didn't bench.
I feel like that comes like a negative connotation.
We just weren't playing too major, so.
Max, are you actually retiring?
No.
I love doing this.
The only thing I've ever thought about with like stopping doing this is I don't know if it's healthy for me.
Like when the race is like getting close to the end, I legit like struggle to go to sleep.
And I'm like waking up with my stomach and knots all day just seeing how far another guild got.
and I don't eat, I barely sleep, and like I don't know if that's like good for me as
like a human. Like I don't know exactly what that is like maybe some people when
they compete in things like that just doesn't affect them they're just like
built crazy and they just don't they don't have those feelings they just they
just like are normal. But I'm not. So I just care too much. So I, I just feel like it's
like probably really bad for me. I lose like a lot of weight every race from that, like
bad weight, right? I don't really need to lose weight and I lose weight anyway.
Max, do you dream about the fights during the race?
I do, but they're not good dreams.
My girlfriend says that I raid lead in my sleep, like I like sleep talk and I don't
do that all year round except for when the race is happening.
I usually wake up and I'm really stressing out over figuring out how a certain mechanic works.
And then it takes me a while to realize that I'm trying to solve a mechanic that doesn't exist.
Like basically posing the question in my head of like, what if this fight had a healer absorb?
A healing absorb. And it just doesn't. And I'm just like literally racking my brain on how the
fuck we could even handle that on top of how hard the boss is. And then I have to remember
that that's not actually a mechanic like some kind of like PTSD shit it's it's really weird it happens
every race bro maybe you should quit yes i'm saying bro i don't like i'm pretty sure this
shit is like at the end of near the like when i'm old like i'm gonna be fucked just straight
like my brain is going to be ruined.
Watch the cams thing.
All right, where can I even find this?
Was it after the race?
after your interview.
Oh, is it blowing up?
It might be blowing up.
Oh, no, this is still working.
I don't know if anyone else uses Firefox, but I've noticed specifically on Twitch, it
like it'll just blow like twitch will just blow up and not work for like a full minute
and then it's fine. It's just twitch. I mean I don't have it happen work on any other
browser maybe it's other things too. See it's like completely broken right now and
and then in a minute it'll be fine.
Here we go.
Oh, somebody has been.
So they are doing the credits.
Okay.
Alright everybody we're going to get started with this very shortly so just to talk to
you the runner show with everybody on the broadcast line and the talent here we're going
I've never been good at public speaking.
I've been told that my dry manner of speech can be off-putting in cringe.
When the whole world is watching.
Louder?
Uh, oh no, my 600% sound volume thing is gone.
I can't turn it up anymore.
Oh shit, servers are up.
It is important that I make a good impression.
And Aya?
I was going to do everything I could to be more charming and likeable.
Four, three, two, one.
If I can move two, open mics.
Hello everybody and welcome to the Team Liquid Race World 1st. My name is Aya and I am here with Cams.
We've got a very exciting tier laid out ahead of us with Manaforge on Mega. Are you excited for this race?
Yeah, I'm very excited. The guild has done so far things were going well.
They're of our palace.
And they had to be.
Because everything I was saying, I'm pretty excited about this.
And for your word, I had rehearsed dozens of times.
time. What? And although they didn't know it, the guild was counting on them for their
success. Wait, this is sick! Oh, that's smart. Yeah, it kind of felt pretty Nathan Fielder.
There's a specific feeling of excitement and anxiety that you get when you know what race
is coming up that is unlike anything else.
You wonder if things will go well.
Who's going to be there?
What color will I be painted?
And most importantly, are we going to win?
This time was no different.
How long is this?
When I received my email from Team Liquid containing my flight details, I noticed that
there was a flex there.
Right now I'm still in.
Which gave me an idea.
Every tier race gets more and more popular, better in quality, and grander in scale.
What else could we possibly improve?
If time after time we manage to make race better, but all our fears stay exactly the
same, then maybe it was time to take a race out of the equation.
So I left Utah to figure out how.
Like why?
Like how does production have time to just make an entire movie?
while we're doing the race. Like, when does this even go down?
Oh, splits? Yeah, probably.
important that I be as discreet as possible.
So at night, after all the employees had gone home, I could find a way to guarantee us the
win.
When I first started my WoW journey, I was able to be a raider for a guild called Limit.
The people at home always get to see the glitz and the glamour of the race, the pop-ups, the
bricks.
But what they don't show you is the endless hours raiders put in to be the best, stuck
in dimly lit rooms, day in and out.
And with something as strenuous as that, tensions can run high.
When I was younger it was easy to focus on my cooldowns, focus on my character and
Just let things be.
They did not make this during the race.
This was made for worse for a long time, I'm pretty sure.
Cause like they showed some.
Don't do.
What?
There's a difference between world first.
Eight months.
Oh yeah, okay.
It's easy to get stun locked
and not be able to do anything at all.
And at the center of it all,
we're rave leaders like Maxima.
Oh Jesus, I hate everything about me
This I thought might be where my answers were
Oh, wait, yeah, this is not, this is from last year.
Different audio interface.
What is that?
I'd have to truly understand Max.
This is so stupid.
All right, because the group's so cool.
Why are you DMing US Hockey?
Burned over DM to US Hockey?
Hold on.
Hold on a second.
It's someone who got banned on their main account.
And they made a thing called US Hockey.
So I would open it and think it was US hockey damming me
So I would unban them
That's I mean that means they really care that's pretty fucking good
Yeah lunch into about 10 minutes living is max for a couple of days just call it early
Get in there get back in here and bang this thing. I felt I was getting the hang of it
This is it, Fugus.
No, why are you doing that?
Okay, we can talk about it after.
It's okay, it's okay.
But still, I knew something critical was missing,
which was keeping me from being totally immersed in the experience.
Everything you've got.
Watch your feet.
Watch your feet.
The rest is gone.
Yes!
Since I couldn't afford to pay any actors to help fill in the gaps,
I had but one choice...
to do it myself.
So, see if I see.
So.
I recorded myself.
Is every single layer in the guild, which would hopefully make my resursal as realistic
as possible.
Do you think we need two warlocks on this fight, THD, or do we just need two more
two warlocks on this fight thd or do we just need the gateways that something we
can get away with works okay no mate check this out oh no shak not not bad no
max what do we even need you here for okay
Alright, this is good to school, that's three.
Nice, nice, nice.
In up, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, cut it, cut it, cut it.
Mind up, check this out.
Okay, mate.
Woo!
Alright, you got it.
Coming in three, two, one.
Okay, good.
Good job, now get over there, get over there.
It was nice being back in the guild account.
Over here.
Alright, good.
Okay, everybody get together.
This is easy, you can take that over there.
Just plant here, we'll be with this on the thing.
But after weeks of rehearsals.
We need a time trial, it was not...
Okay, come mate, come mate, come mate.
I'm on the skull. Everybody gets a skull.
I'm hundreds of runs.
I'm on the skull.
I felt that the only thing that I was learning
was that this was a complete waste of time.
Thankfully, there was one thing that I found that could potentially lead to some progress.
During one of my runs, I noticed that Max had gotten a message on Discord.
It was from somebody who claimed to work at Blizzard.
And they were offering to sell a leaked test build of the upcoming Mythic Rift.
Yo, give us that shit!
How much?!
Ha ha ha ha!
Fuck!
That was torn.
This would definitely be cheating.
But with all the early intel, we would have a guaranteed edge over every other guild in
the world.
Oh god.
Fucking guild.
This was tough, but so far, I haven't done a single useful thing.
Maybe if I fed info to the guild without them knowing how I got it, their hands could stay clean.
What could I live with cheating on my conscience?
With no other ideas left to try.
I figured I'd give it a shot.
The man had me meet him in the Activision Employee parking lot.
The deal went smooth, so I quickly headed back to the office and got to work to see just
What intel I could have done?
I was getting nowhere.
And everything I had tried had been completely pointless and costly.
He unplugged the monitor, bro.
Between the film crew, the costumes, and the leaked build.
I was quickly running out of both money and time.
Thankfully, I had one last yola up my sleeve.
I'd have to go to the one man who could solve all of my problems.
Knock knock.
Oh, hey.
Thanks for meeting with me.
Yeah, what's up?
So, I've been working on a project for race.
I'm kind of filming a documentary, but yeah, like the one the one that Damien normally does right
You're just helping him out without her. He's asked me to be on it
But I'm doing kind of my own thing and I'll be honest. This is a little more expensive than I thought it would be
So yeah, I mean you've done this is with us your seventh race, and I think you did it before
Liquid yeah, so you should you should have why are you guys saying Bart?
But you know, figure that one out.
Well, I know a lot of money goes into it.
That's why I'm meeting with you,
because I know there's a pretty big budget,
and maybe it's a little, there's some wiggle room.
So is, do you think there's a way to like,
do you think we could fit this into the budget somehow?
It's just need a little bit of money.
I can buy you like, like a pack of soda
and some popcorn from Costco.
That's what I got in the budget.
Okay, that's kind of what I've been living off of.
So I've got that covered.
We're doing it for the charity or raising money for that, you know, yeah, and
I'm just gonna be real
We're about 20,000 in the hole right now, and it's gonna be at least another five
To get out of this
Are you just looking at the budget?
Yeah, no, sorry. I'm I
Got I got some some stuff. I gotta go take care of you said you need $5,000
Well, it's gonna be 5,000 more, but I've kind of taken some loans out and stuff and I thought I've thousand more
Okay, yeah, that's about if we could swing the 25,000
Because it's for the twenty five thousand dollar charity go, so we'll have the money
No
Fucking
$25,000 charity go and we'll have the money for the documentary for the goal. I don't think you know how charities work
where do you think that money goes when we raise the money for the charity to the charity but we
can't raise the money because the goal so how are we getting their money back can't look I love you
Um, stick to casting.
Math is a little rough.
He's just so perfectly deadpan.
With no budget or support from T-Liquid,
I knew I'd have to get creative if I wanted to make a difference.
So I decided to set my focus on the other side of the race.
The broadcast.
The race has always been a community competition.
There's no governing body, no prize money, no trophy.
Even as races scale, it's always just been for the bragging rights.
For the fans.
The viewers are who it's all about.
Maybe this is where my effort should have been all along.
If I could become the perfect Warlord Warcraft Caster,
and capture the hearts of millions of fans for the Guild,
then no matter what the outcome of the race is,
Team Liquid will have still won.
Also, I could charge Team Liquid way more money,
which would help me get out of this wake hole I had dug.
So I needed to figure out what the other casters were doing that I wasn't.
And there would be no better cast to learn from than Aya.
Aya has been casting for the Guild ever since Nyalotha, and is one of the most popular personalities on the roster.
Aya is also quite successful as a streamer and content creator outside of the race,
Which is something I had not much success with.
So I'll give that a go I guess.
Yo, hey guys, how's it going?
What?
Just getting ready for the race that I throw a quick stream on.
Pretty excited.
How's everybody doing today?
It's good.
Hey, Effendell.
My queen makeup I don't know.
Please, is this actually on her stream?
You need a shave.
Did this happen?
Yeah, I've been like in the patch.
I think I need to start getting some gear on my guys.
You guys want to do some delves or something?
All right, I think I'm on here.
That's not showing. Hold on.
Oh, here we go.
How geared is this guy?
Is he actually on her account?
Sports? Yeah, that's coming up.
You know, skiing.
Point going to the mountains.
What about how interesting our binds are?
Thanks, playful.
Slee.
No makeup tips today.
I mean, just what I always say, powder, shadow.
Yeah, I'll have to get one of these raiders
to maybe come and show me how to make keybinds.
Hopefully the raiders don't go too late
because it's always messing up our sleep
all over the place and you know who I am.
I was up a little late last night
and we were in a concert, you know?
Woo!
It wasn't chat. Get that blue chain. Yeah, I'm doing good. How are you doing?
Bioglamp bomba? I think just gonna do that one Dell for the day and wanted to get a quick
streaming before the race starts before all the prep's going on. Alright, well, thanks
everyone tuning in. Have a good day and make sure to tune into the race this week.
That's gonna be great.
Alright, bye.
With a couple of streams down, I had actually made a decent chunk of my money back.
Oh, thank you for the tier one!
But at this point, I had wasted too much time.
people had started arriving and the real reason is that to get underway I tried
to observe their behavior as we went through our pre-production meetings and
tech checks but I still couldn't pinpoint anything that I could use to make
myself better than them
Okay.
I'm just prepping.
Feeling a little weird.
Not sure about my place here, you know?
Weird.
Yeah.
You know, it's just like you and Jack, you're so professional.
Thyro, Janus.
You're so smart.
My mom will tell us so quick.
I'm just kind of like this old raider guy.
Just trying to find my place.
I feel like you have.
Like, I don't know.
Last year, I think nothing came along.
Yeah, but I want more like up and everything.
I'm not sure.
I'm just trying to cover all bases.
Okay, and you can like, do what you can learn?
No, just take a notes.
Make sure no base is uncovered.
Okay.
I mean, if there's anything specific like any rehearsal you want to work on,
you can...
...not rehearsals.
I'm pretty excited about this, we've got midnight on the horizon, blizzard is cooking, the guild
this cooking. I'm happy to be here. Yeah, I'm so happy to be here. We've got exciting
bosses laid out ahead of us as well. Of course, what class of you can play this
expansion? I've been playing my mage. A lot of mage. They got unleashed after runa
powers removed. You're gonna know that you have a lot of all time. Yeah, I'm
I'm I'm what I'm coining an Omni class or Omni class or yes, the new one. I
might be stealing that. You think we'll see Og of ochre this race? I have no
No idea. I don't know anything about AUG now.
Are you playing AUG?
No, I can play AUG.
I can play AUG.
As part of the Omni-classer toolkit, AUG comes along with it.
Right. OK.
Well, I mean, it's going to be looking to be an exciting race
so far.
Let us know in chat.
I think the gearing this time around is for this raid.
What are some of the other ways
that these players can kind of power up their character?
Yeah, we've got the Delves.
I don't know.
There won't be much of them.
But, you know what, can I confess something to you, Raya?
Yeah.
You know what, the guild,
they're going for the three Pete this time
and I just really want the guild to win
and want to do everything I can to help the guild out.
So I went looking around and I found some PTR build,
PTR build, someone who would sell me a PTR build of the upcoming raid and I got it, it
turned out to just be a virus so everything's fine.
It didn't actually impact the race at all, but I feel really bad about it.
I kind of don't like who I was in the moments leading up to that.
I've just been living here, it's just getting to my head, the pressure of the
broadcast and I feel really bad and I'm really sorry and I just
had to get that off my chest. Yeah.
Dude.
Okay, thank you for telling me but cams dude. What are you
talking about buying some PTR bill? This is to help the
Raiders win. This is bigger than you. This is you're not even
involved. You should just be part of a production. Why are
even thinking about how you can help them. I don't know why you have to think you need
to get involved, you're not a part of this, is this some sort of thing to pretend that
you got a world first when you didn't? Is this to pretend you're part of the raid team when
you're not? What were you thinking? Were you even considering what could happen if
something went wrong instead of virus? What does that mean? Are the computers okay?
Is Echo getting strats from us? What's going to happen here? You really, you
really fuck this up cams
you're an awful person this is terrible this is disgusting
I just think you're a really good person like a world of Warcraft or no
just just in general i think you're you're just a really good person all right thank you that's
really that's nice of you to say cams thanks um anyways thanks so much to our sponsors for the
I know this team, like, but race to the first?
Ah, dude.
Yeah, why is this not like a YouTube video?
How can I watch the whole thing? As far as I know, it's just what played after the credits
after the race was over. And that's it.
not over how how can it not be over
Yeah, he's still here.
What the fuck?
HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
what the fuck
dude
guys
is this
That's for you, Cody.
Dude, I don't do anything for you.
Shout out, Hopeful.
That's so good. That's so good.
I feel like you'd probably have to watch the race
and watch the Team Liquid channel to, like, appreciate that, right?
This isn't something that would, like, get a million views on YouTube,
probably, because there are just so many people that would not even know what it's referencing,
Referencing but like if you do note it's referencing that's like fucking insanely good like just as good as it could possibly be
But it'd be on YouTube would go crazy they should do that for sure I don't even know what channel but somebody
What time stamp did it start at?
It's about to use up your face better.
Oh shit servers are out.
Here we go.
Okay, that isn't working.
I'm trying to copy it.
There we go.
We'll re-look at the class tier list another day.
Is there a way I can watch when we won? Oh, I actually haven't seen that.
I want to see the reaction of the caster reaction to the secret phase.
Does the hole kill that?
of a push through this first section here. At this point the only thing I'm
worried about is the dark constellation patterns. Some of them are really difficult.
The RNG of them can be difficult. It's the overlaps of the constellations with
the mechanics. As long as they are able to deal with the constellations
everything else falls into place. Sub-30 on the first dark archangel is fantastic.
The DPS slows a little bit here. We want to see sub-17 we know is possible for
them to get their maximal damage for P4. Let's keep an eye on that when
get there for the time we have production called P4EasterLudora. Yeah, I want to see chat.
The memory game as well, they're already done on that side, but to swap those mechanics
over for one more set before we get that second cast on us.
Yeah, I mean, this is kind of where you make determinations as to whether or not you're
going to be pressing or holding some of the cooldowns.
Yeah, and you're looking at the boss's HP to try to audible some of your cooldowns,
kind of like you called out Zyro earlier, are you going to be holding or sending
the true shot?
Oh, the boss!
Oh my god!
The boss is so unbelievable low.
Okay, here's the thing, we got to lock in.
You still have to push the boss all the way to 0% HP and you're going into the final phase.
The unfortunate reality is even though they're blowing past the damage check here, it doesn't
make the last phase that much easier.
In reality, the only thing it's going to allow you to do is maybe save one or potentially
even two offensive cooldowns for that final phase.
Making that damage check a bit easier.
They can still wipe here.
This memory game is tough.
The duck punch is so easy.
It was literally free.
It was all the way in the old puddle.
They complete the constellation.
And they complete the memory game in basically no time.
Now the right hand side,
they have to complete the memory game.
And, but the left hand side was so free.
Last of the lights, I think so come out here too.
Also a really good constellation roll.
We're gonna have two more soaks left here
being taken care of by that left side.
Memory game being resolved on the right.
Last one, that's okay.
We should have-
Vibrates.
Okay, Vibrates available.
Two tiers so go on here as well.
So, we're good.
We're getting just in time.
Good constellation.
We got the last soak done.
Okay, we're all finishing.
All right, last phase, 20 live.
Push.
Ares?
Right, when the arcane's began to work.
And Ares will come up.
Yeah, we are through.
That was a super easy push and every cooldown was able to be saved there.
They have every button available.
All that stands between Liquid right now and the world first kill is literally three
Shatter Spires and three Heaven and Hells.
All they have to do is keep all 20 alive.
Dude, my favorite thing is the, is the Ascii's.
When people spam the Ascii's but like your chat isn't wide enough so it just like
does this, but you can still like see who it is. It's so good.
60% here as I wrote this is perfect great second star second heaven and hell coming out here
We're already moving get that beam away. This is what the second row is for that beam is nowhere in sight
Now we need to find a good spot to plant for the final set of star shatters while the tanks stand in front and block the
Stars this boss might die one fires two fires number three fires the boss is some 25% already
The energy of the time.
Last Heaven in Hell, it comes down to this.
Can we keep all 20 alive?
Do we have the damage check here?
It's not over when the boss hits 100 energy.
Remember, there's still that cast.
It's up to percent.
Do the damage liquid.
Just one cast on the boss.
Result these fires.
Those three.
3%!
This is going down.
It's in!
It's in!
It's in!
Oh, my gosh.
Oh, my gosh.
Oh, they're popping off.
I want to see the casters, though.
I know what we did.
for the first for the 4th shearing roll!
Oh my gosh!
Ignite has fallen!
That's good casting.
Look how it's pretty good.
73 pulls! The hardest boss of all time has fallen!
Liquid have done it!
A phase 4! They thought that yesterday was kill day.
They thought they were going to bet the losers with Echo claiming it.
But they showed up today, they swapped to the Guardian Druid
and they have claimed world first for the fourth time in a row.
Wow. Oh my goodness, bro. That was the cleanest Spanish three that push was someone said team liquid MMO had a
Had a good one see I
Don't know why that just came up, but
Is it a clip is it a short
of the
This cannot be
This cannot be
Secret phase! No!
There's no, no, no, no, no!
Dude, this, this is the best part.
Lip, lip popping off into relocking in is just an insane clip.
Look at this.
Look at this.
Immediately back in.
That's not editing at all. That's exactly what happened in real time.
Fuck me
I mean, yeah, this is like fucking insane. I mean, this is probably the most exciting moment in the history of the race world first
Just straight up. There's no moment that was more crazy than this. It's more hype than any win that's ever existed
This cannot be
Yeah, I hadn't seen a few of those.
It's so funny because that's the actual RP in the game.
Yeah, yeah, the this cannot be is what the boss says.
But this went very far and wide.
A lot of non-wow players saw this clip.
And no one knows that.
And it just sounds like someone is unironically saying, this cannot be, like in like 2026,
which sounds like some, like Shakespeare shit.
You guys said there was an echo reaction to the secret phase?
What even, I haven't said, where do I see that?
I haven't seen that at all.
It gives them looking at it on their monitors.
It's a highlight.
I mean that's easy to find
Echo eSports highlight
Their YouTube has highlight videos of each day
Oh, it's not a Twitch highlight.
I mean, that makes it a complete meme.
Or maybe it does.
Maybe they do have highlights.
It was a clip.
Or was it a highlight? Which one?
Lura's secret phase? Isn't that going to be them going to the secret phase?
Like, I thought you were saying there was a reaction of Echo like seeing us get there.
I don't care about them seeing it for the first time that they have already seen it by then.
It's a clip all right. Well, I'm looking
These stripes channel has it okay
I don't know what method it is, but he didn't know they lost two hours ago.
They thought fucker, check the news. We lost like two hours ago.
What the heck?
There's no show, bro.
That's pretty fucking insane. I love that.
I love the checked outness of that.
Because like, what we actually want is for people to not know about our competition because it makes them play worse when they have a good pull.
they have a good pole it's like proven he's trolling I mean I could see it not
being trolling like I go out of my way to make sure I never know how low echo is
when I think that they could kill it ever
I have something in my mind at some point. I don't want to shit, I'm doing pools.
Did we at least have our low wipes before it? Like the Berserker spell?
Yeah, yeah.
Hell yeah.
Not the lowest one, but the 4.
I think that the 4.
Um, so not that.
Uh, clips don't work.
Can you DM the clip to me, I guess, because that would work.
Can you DM the clip to me, I guess, because that would work?
Yeah, clips. I mean, you're linking a clip in chat, but no one else is seeing it. I don't have clips like enabled.
A mod can link it, or you can DM it to me, and then I can pull it up.
But Max Eclip is on radar.io Twitter profile of casters reacting.
Oh, okay.
Sure.
Rader.io.
Production and staff at Team Liquid react to the world's first kill.
Oh, I haven't seen this.
This isn't exactly what I asked for though.
Oh wait, no I did watch this because we reacted to them pointing at each other and I found
that to be really cool, okay it's not that.
Okay, behind the scenes, loop wipe, liquid 15% one dead, res, 10%, five, two dead, secret
phase no dead.
Oh wait, hour behind the scenes peak of production and casters reacting to the secret phase reveal
I've already seen this I wanted to see this is the echo
I wanted to see the echo casters
No, that's what this we were all talking
Why would I want to see another
after this thing go
It's on echoes YouTube, I don't want to fucking give this shit on my how can I go to someone's YouTube without it ever showing up on my algorithm
Can you like remove?
Can you like edit your algorithm?
Incognito change accounts
Okay, let's see what which video is it
Is it a short
A secret mythic phase here we go
down to that kind of crunch moment because you do have the ever encroaching
you know midi
wow those glaives were really nerfed look how slow that is
two minutes and 21 seconds someone says okay
can this always go i need you to stop yeah oh they both just found out about the secret
phase and and he's reading off some like doughnose or something and they're like bro
Fucking let's hold on a second here. Thank you so much for the donation incredible. Thank you
We have just had confirmation that there is a mythic phase
No, I'm we're not production has just told us. There is a mythic phase fully confirmed. There is a mythic phase
Our production is telling us they watched it, which I assume means the liquid
To the mythic phase and they reached and some secret phase
Oh, there's a black fuck.
Oh, wait.
I might be dead, though.
What?
Really?
What the fuck?
This is what I wanted to see.
Oh, wait.
What did that guy say? That guy said we were fucked?
Oh
He said we are so back
Yeah, no. Yeah. Yeah, exactly that I like dude
I was seeing the secret phase was so deflating and I feel like for them after thinking about it
It's got to be like, thank fucking God.
Because I mean, they would have lost if there wasn't one, right?
Someone said it was good for Echo.
I can't mean, of course.
Yeah, like the race massively swung in their favor with
there being a secret phase.
They absolutely should have one.
It just became the worst timing situation of all time.
We got there, and unless we could kill it before going to
bed, we were going to lose.
But then somehow we didn't lose.
I'm leaving on Wednesday at the latest probably on Tuesday. I'm gonna be on I think the hotels
only booked till Tuesday anyway. I wanna see my dog. My wife's remarried. Wow. But what
about the dog? There's a guy living in my house. Yeah, it shouldn't just there like
how long does it take to get milk? I'm so confused. My kids don't look at me. I'm
I think I'm a tax collector.
I love it.
Stop calling the stuff for you.
You're a crazy ball fan.
All right.
How do I, do I like dislike the video?
Just so, just so it like the YouTube isn't like feeding
me this shit on my, but does that like hurt?
I mean, it's not like meant bad.
bad. I mean, I liked it. It's just like just delete it from your history. Okay. Yeah. Easy. Easy.
All right. I'm gonna go pick up my dogs.
I've seen them most of the race. My girlfriend went to Hawaii with her family last Friday,
and she comes home in two days. But until then, I was still going home at night and was able
to see my dogs and stuff, but I haven't seen my dogs since Friday. I actually lived a
a couple hours away and I'll have 10 minutes from here.