WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:02.060 you 00:30.000 --> 00:32.060 you 01:00.000 --> 01:02.060 you 01:30.000 --> 01:32.060 you 02:00.000 --> 02:02.060 you 02:30.000 --> 02:32.060 you 03:00.000 --> 03:02.060 you 03:30.000 --> 03:32.060 you 04:00.000 --> 04:02.060 you 04:30.000 --> 04:32.060 you 05:00.000 --> 05:02.060 you 05:30.000 --> 05:32.060 you 06:00.000 --> 06:02.060 you 06:30.000 --> 06:42.120 All right, I finally turned the splits thing off, the thing that just keeps spamming your 06:42.120 --> 06:43.920 chat. 06:43.920 --> 06:58.800 No, it's not time for this song. 06:58.800 --> 07:03.920 It's also not Saturday, but I like this song. 07:03.920 --> 07:05.320 Can we have High Guard back? 07:05.320 --> 07:08.520 Yeah, wait, did that stop spamming? 07:08.520 --> 07:09.520 It did. 07:09.520 --> 07:11.520 I'm going to turn it back on, Drew. 07:39.520 --> 07:49.160 We still have Christmas deals at Alienware at least. 07:49.160 --> 07:56.960 I also turned that one off because it's just been too long. 08:26.960 --> 08:44.880 Max, can you leak me the liquid add-ons for this tier? 08:44.880 --> 08:49.600 Dude, what do we have that isn't publicly available? 08:49.600 --> 08:53.160 I'm pretty sure there's like most things that we're using. 08:53.160 --> 08:56.520 There are versions of it. 08:56.520 --> 09:00.600 I could be wrong, but reminders? 09:00.600 --> 09:03.440 I think there are definitely public reminder tools, right? 09:19.000 --> 09:22.560 Thoughts of the MDI being so soon? 09:22.560 --> 09:23.920 Well, I don't have any thoughts personally, 09:23.920 --> 09:26.000 because I'm not doing that shit. 09:26.000 --> 09:32.000 But yeah, it's definitely they're going to lose a lot of good players with it being this close to the race for sure. 09:32.800 --> 09:39.200 A lot of our players are that we're going to compete, I believe are not going to because they're just so burnt out. 09:43.000 --> 09:46.600 Dude, your add on is so clearly better than everything else available. 09:47.400 --> 09:49.300 I mean, we can look at that today if you want. 09:49.300 --> 09:58.300 But I don't think that's true. Like which add-on are you referring to? Like which specifically? 09:58.300 --> 10:23.580 It's just that yours does the work of like four to five add-ons in one and the UI is 10:23.580 --> 10:26.540 more approachable, maybe. 10:36.780 --> 10:39.740 Max surprisingly preached it out of much to say about the race. Max I'd love it 10:39.740 --> 10:43.500 if we take a look at add-ons in general. It's been kind of new to WoW but really 10:43.500 --> 10:47.020 binged it since Dragonflight and with Sad they turned their back on a lot. 10:47.020 --> 10:52.580 I mean, dude, I mean, you can still just get every add-on. 10:57.300 --> 11:00.460 It's just you just have to get, you just have to get more. 11:00.460 --> 11:05.180 Like you can still do everything you want with technology, except for one thing. 11:06.860 --> 11:09.300 Or maybe a few things. 11:09.300 --> 11:12.860 It's just you have to get a lot more add-ons to it's like more annoying 11:12.860 --> 11:16.260 to get add-ons, basically, and they're all slightly worse. 11:17.020 --> 11:24.860 And I think more importantly is some people got like smart with add-ons and they were able to just like maybe some of you guys even 11:24.980 --> 11:27.180 Learned how to make yourself a quick week or a 11:28.260 --> 11:32.940 You know to like solve a very basic problem and now like you can't do that anymore 11:32.940 --> 11:37.940 You need someone else to make it and I think that's like a pretty big problem 11:37.940 --> 11:48.460 Max, do you think this raid format will return next year? 11:48.460 --> 11:57.180 Was it too bad for viewership? 11:57.180 --> 12:03.420 I don't think the raced world first viewership accounts for how they create raids in any 12:03.420 --> 12:06.580 way. 12:06.580 --> 12:11.300 in terms of like whether they do multiple raid instances or one. Like it just doesn't matter. 12:13.140 --> 12:15.220 Were whales shopping at whale mark type shit? 12:25.220 --> 12:29.380 Max, do you think that Rett was stackable for the last boss this year? No. 12:31.700 --> 12:36.020 Like I mean could you have killed it and ran two Rets? Yes, but that wasn't better than running 12:36.020 --> 12:42.340 one. Rhett I don't think was the best class at that fight at all. Like basically Rhett, it's nice 12:42.340 --> 12:47.860 to have Rhett to like help with the second adds in P1, but like there's better classes at P1, 12:47.860 --> 12:54.420 P2, and P3. Rhett's the best class in P4 though. Rhett does, so maybe the reason Rhett topped 12:55.620 --> 13:03.460 is, I believe Rhett does more damage with the last phase like holy mechanic. And I don't know 13:03.460 --> 13:15.460 I don't know if that's because of their mastery or like whatever, but I need to remove that song from the playlist and add the real one. 13:33.460 --> 13:39.660 Here, I'll show you actually. 13:39.660 --> 13:44.860 So let's look at our kill. 13:44.860 --> 14:00.660 Okay, so in P1, pretty important phase. 14:00.660 --> 14:03.700 I mean, it's pretty dominated by hunters. 14:03.700 --> 14:11.980 Rhett is fine, but like if you were to look at specifically boss damage in P1, it's unsurprisingly 14:11.980 --> 14:14.140 aug. 14:14.140 --> 14:17.540 Everything else is a little close. 14:17.540 --> 14:22.500 If you're going to look at crystal damage, it's probably hunters, but yeah, hunter, 14:22.500 --> 14:28.780 basketballs, Warlock Rhett, surprisingly Shaman actually. 14:28.780 --> 14:36.180 We could look at P2, but I just don't, it's, you know, it's probably not a big deal. 14:36.180 --> 14:39.820 Some people like holding CDs for being a P3, whatever. 14:39.820 --> 14:46.100 And then P3, I think RET just gets like an extra cooldown use, but other people are holding 14:46.100 --> 14:48.980 on purpose. 14:48.980 --> 14:51.500 And these, you do like extra damage in this phase. 14:51.500 --> 14:58.300 So losing a use in this phase really matters. 14:58.300 --> 15:04.980 And then in the last phase, well, the damage isn't attributed to them. 15:04.980 --> 15:06.140 How do you show this? 15:06.140 --> 15:07.940 Is it augmented damage? 15:07.940 --> 15:08.940 No. 15:08.940 --> 15:16.780 I mean, the log just shows it being done by Dawn Crystal, but I guess Rhett and DK popped 15:16.780 --> 15:19.300 off in this phase, just in general. 15:19.300 --> 15:26.300 did a lot more holy shit. The DKs did insane damn. 15:34.020 --> 15:38.580 But I'm pretty sure Rhett did more Dawn Crystal damage than everyone else. So like if you 15:38.580 --> 15:42.620 wanted to make the P4 check easier, it was Rhett in like one other class, like randomly 15:42.620 --> 15:46.100 just did more damage with this spell. I don't know if it's mastery based or some other 15:46.100 --> 15:53.100 reason, but yeah. 16:03.260 --> 16:09.020 Max, what is the damage amp in P3? We have no idea. It's like some server side shit. 16:09.020 --> 16:14.280 It's not only is it like technically a damage amp, we don't know how much, and also some 16:14.280 --> 16:19.240 spells are doing more damage than other like specifically if you have an ability that reads 16:19.240 --> 16:27.000 like if you have an ability that says something like this like when you use wake of ashes the target 16:27.640 --> 16:34.280 takes x amount of damage over x seconds or if you have like an embellishment or a trinket 16:34.280 --> 16:39.320 or something that just makes the target take damage based on the damage of a regular ability 16:39.320 --> 16:43.400 like basically every class has something like that or something that you could relate to for 16:43.400 --> 16:49.800 that those things just like did more damage during that phase than other things for whatever reason 16:50.520 --> 16:55.800 it's really complicated like I don't know how to answer that question we we never were quite positive 16:55.800 --> 17:04.120 how exactly how it left your damage just that it did in fact we played arcane mage for the reason 17:04.120 --> 17:11.240 of touch of the magi working in that phase and we tried arcane and it did like way more than 17:11.240 --> 17:16.080 frost which you and it was just doing more on logs and frost of the boss so 17:16.080 --> 17:18.840 that's how we were playing it and then we went back for us and our raid damage 17:18.840 --> 17:23.600 went up pretty noticeably and the only thing we can really think of for that is 17:23.600 --> 17:28.280 that maybe auger voker was like basically arcane was stealing damage from 17:28.280 --> 17:32.600 auger voker and it wasn't attributing the damage back to them somehow 17:41.240 --> 17:48.240 My read was Holy wasn't going to bring Devo since it was Beans and there are better tanks to bring for your tanks. 17:48.240 --> 17:50.240 Oh as to why you played Rett? 17:50.240 --> 17:59.240 Yeah, I mean yeah, so people think we played Rett because it was really good, but it was just the, it was the best of the three things. 17:59.240 --> 18:05.240 Like, like basically Rett could have been way worse than it was and you still would have played Rett. 18:05.240 --> 18:10.040 Because like Prott kind of wasn't playable and Holy definitely wasn't playable 18:12.360 --> 18:16.680 So you just had to play red and then it happened to be that red. It was actually pretty decent. So it was nice 18:22.120 --> 18:24.440 Are you ready to know life the diablo expansion? Yep 18:24.520 --> 18:27.400 It's texting shroud about that yesterday. I told him we're setting records 18:27.960 --> 18:31.880 And he asked what records and I told him I don't know yet, but we're gonna fucking figure it out 18:32.120 --> 18:34.120 We're gonna make something break them 18:35.240 --> 18:42.360 Max, do you guys start farm right away or do you take a break after the race? 18:42.360 --> 18:47.040 So we finished last Monday, so like right now all of our characters are unsaved. 18:47.040 --> 18:56.960 Our next farm day is Monday, so like in a few days from now, four days from now. 18:56.960 --> 19:09.960 But we're not doing Bellaryn or Lura, we're just like chill, voidsfire farming. 19:09.960 --> 19:12.320 Like we'll probably gear up again. 19:12.320 --> 19:15.840 I think our goal is to get all of our players the mythic achievement. 19:15.840 --> 19:21.920 And then once we do that, we're just going to start like selling prior runs, like basically 19:21.920 --> 19:25.880 bring buyers in so they can get every single item and stuff, which is pretty rare. 19:25.880 --> 19:28.920 You usually aren't able to do that because you need to gear so many characters for the 19:28.920 --> 19:55.760 next raid, but after you get the mythic achievement, your characters are basically geared for free. 19:55.760 --> 19:57.880 So you now have four peats or six peats. 19:57.880 --> 20:00.740 We have won the race four times in a row. 20:00.740 --> 20:02.840 The six in a row thing is more of a meme. 20:02.840 --> 20:05.200 It was like a rage bait meme. 20:05.200 --> 20:07.720 And what that is is basically counting the void spire 20:07.720 --> 20:10.560 and dream rift as their own raids. 20:10.560 --> 20:12.240 Which is, I mean, technically true. 20:12.240 --> 20:13.880 Like going by Hall of Fame, it's true, 20:13.880 --> 20:15.880 but like it's like not true, you know? 20:25.760 --> 20:28.960 Just a good old rage bait. 20:28.960 --> 20:30.920 Max, do you think Blizzard will address splits 20:30.920 --> 20:35.840 with how many non-Racer World First Guilds are doing splits? 20:35.840 --> 20:39.280 I think they would do that, and it would have already 20:39.280 --> 20:41.000 done it if they could. 20:41.000 --> 20:44.840 Basically, there's no, and please do not 20:44.840 --> 20:50.160 take this as an opportunity to throw your take out there 20:50.160 --> 20:53.400 on how to fix it, which I promise you they've all 20:53.400 --> 20:54.400 been thought of before. 20:54.400 --> 21:02.120 just don't even just move on right but there's basically no way to make the top guilds not 21:02.120 --> 21:10.880 do splits that wouldn't still find a way to do it or that wouldn't very negatively affect 21:10.880 --> 21:16.200 the the community like the rating community as a whole which is like not the point of 21:16.200 --> 21:20.400 this right so it's not really doable however I do think it is a much bigger problem 21:20.400 --> 21:23.100 Like, I don't think these two things are the same. 21:23.100 --> 21:27.960 Like the top guilds doing like a bunch of splits is, 21:27.960 --> 21:30.160 I feel like at least that's been normal for a long time, 21:30.160 --> 21:31.560 but like within the last few years, 21:31.560 --> 21:36.560 you've seen like a lot of guilds start doing splits 21:38.240 --> 21:41.760 like really far up the world ranks. 21:41.760 --> 21:43.760 And then I think that's like probably, 21:43.760 --> 21:45.880 like the reason Blizzard might look to change it is 21:45.880 --> 21:47.240 like it's something that people are doing 21:47.240 --> 21:48.280 because they feel like they have to, 21:48.280 --> 21:49.320 but they don't think it's fun. 21:49.320 --> 21:54.080 And I mean, if you're someone who creates a game and people are doing something that you already don't like, 21:54.080 --> 22:01.520 but you also think is lowering people's enjoyment of the game, it would increase your, like, urgency to try to fix that problem. 22:01.520 --> 22:06.240 Where if it's just like the top guild, it's just like, you know, the top guilds are going to do whatever the top guilds do. 22:06.240 --> 22:08.040 But it's pretty widespread now, so. 22:10.320 --> 22:10.720 Yeah. 22:19.320 --> 22:24.080 Max, do you prefer the Heroic Week setup, or do you want all the difficulties at once? 22:24.080 --> 22:27.440 I'm a fan of Heroic Weeks in normal raids. 22:27.440 --> 22:31.720 I wasn't as much of a fan of it this time because there were just two Heroic Weeks. 22:31.720 --> 22:40.400 I like one Heroic Week. 22:40.400 --> 22:43.840 Surely the only fix to remove the need for them, but that means ending the whole 22:43.840 --> 22:47.640 gearing system and making live into a tournament realm, which breaks the gameplay loop. 22:47.640 --> 22:51.480 Yeah, or like other bad takes you'd hear or like make it so you can only clear 22:52.200 --> 22:57.560 The raid on one character and get geared. No other characters on your account can do it and it's like okay 22:57.560 --> 23:02.280 First of all that would fuck every player in the worst way, but also we would just create new accounts 23:02.520 --> 23:06.840 We just have one account per character like like there's ways around all of it. Um 23:07.560 --> 23:08.360 So 23:08.360 --> 23:11.400 Yeah, it's just there's no way to solve it. It's just the way it is 23:11.480 --> 23:15.080 I don't think heroic splits are as much of an issue. I mean, they're not great 23:15.080 --> 23:18.680 but they've been happening for a while. The mythic split thing I think is the biggest problem 23:19.400 --> 23:26.040 and they can simply fix that by just not releasing multiple raid instances at the same time, right? Or 23:27.480 --> 23:32.280 the issue with this raid with mythic splits this time is that they released two raids that were 23:32.280 --> 23:36.360 all very splittable where like for example March of Kildenos, you're never going to split 23:36.360 --> 23:41.800 Bellerin because you need to progress the last guy. So like let's just say you had nine bosses 23:41.800 --> 23:48.120 in each raid had three bosses one easy one medium and one hard that would be a lot harder to split 23:48.120 --> 23:53.320 you know what I mean because you your intention would be to kill the hard boss but you can't 23:53.320 --> 23:58.600 split the first boss if there's still a hard boss to kill in that instance right the dream 23:58.600 --> 24:04.520 rift obviously that's not true the void spire that's not true um so like that's one way to do 24:04.520 --> 24:18.160 that but wouldn't be the thing at that point to remove mythic track gear mythic is a skill 24:18.160 --> 24:23.520 grind not a gear grind that goes like very fundamentally against the way they look at 24:23.520 --> 24:25.960 They're gearing philosophy in an MMO that would never happen. 24:37.700 --> 24:40.880 Max, did you do any misdirection or baiting during this race, 24:40.880 --> 24:42.720 giving misinformation on purpose? 24:45.460 --> 24:48.600 No. I don't think so. 24:49.840 --> 24:52.880 You would never like do a bad strat to bait someone else, 24:52.880 --> 24:55.320 because the other guilds are smart enough to just be like, 24:55.320 --> 24:58.160 that looks bad, and then do something else, you know? 24:59.560 --> 25:00.760 So nothing like that. 25:00.760 --> 25:02.640 I don't, I'm trying, can you give an example 25:02.640 --> 25:04.080 of what you're even talking about? 25:04.080 --> 25:07.280 Like, what are you referring to 25:07.280 --> 25:10.000 where we intentionally gave misdirection 25:10.000 --> 25:11.200 to like another guild? 25:16.360 --> 25:19.000 Oh, the on all fours thing, yeah. 25:19.000 --> 25:20.840 Yeah, but that was more of a meme. 25:20.840 --> 25:29.840 I think most misdirection is for chat like when we made up that we extended last year and it like lived rent free in the minds of so many people 25:29.840 --> 25:33.840 Like that was that none of the guilds got tricked by that, you know 25:41.840 --> 25:47.840 Max you said two Augs were bad because two bad ebb and mice than used to 25:47.840 --> 25:50.000 That's probably not exactly what I said. 25:50.000 --> 25:53.800 What I probably said was one AUG gains full value, 25:53.800 --> 25:57.080 but for every other AUG you bring, 25:57.080 --> 25:58.880 they're technically a little worse, 25:58.880 --> 26:02.560 because instead of you just buffing DPS with your spell, 26:02.560 --> 26:04.280 you're also buffing one other character 26:04.280 --> 26:05.560 that's not doing a lot of damage, 26:05.560 --> 26:09.080 which just lowers its overall value objectively. 26:09.080 --> 26:10.600 That doesn't mean we weren't going to play them 26:10.600 --> 26:11.480 or that it wasn't good. 26:11.480 --> 26:13.120 It turns out that is true. 26:13.120 --> 26:15.840 It's just AUG is so overtuned that it's even still good 26:15.840 --> 26:18.140 to bring more than one or two of them. 26:41.400 --> 26:42.760 Max, can you ever see a scenario 26:42.760 --> 26:44.840 where Blizz makes a data mined secret phase 26:44.840 --> 26:49.080 to have a second truly hidden phase on top of that? 26:49.080 --> 26:51.640 Uh, 26:51.640 --> 26:55.080 nah. I mean this was the only secret phase that 26:55.080 --> 26:58.920 ended up feeling like it wasn't going to happen when it happened ever. 26:58.920 --> 27:02.520 Every other secret phase was known about before it happened. 27:02.520 --> 27:08.360 Um, like but so many things had to go into that being true. Like it's not 27:08.360 --> 27:11.160 even, it's false that it wasn't datamined. Like 27:11.160 --> 27:15.320 reintegration was datamined. The boss healing itself back up at a certain point was datamined. 27:16.600 --> 27:23.160 It's just, it also happened to be that the boss was so hard that all of us had convinced ourselves 27:23.160 --> 27:28.040 that that was some old like spell that they left in, which happens all the time, and it doesn't 27:28.040 --> 27:31.640 actually happen anymore because it would be insane to think that a boss that hard could 27:31.640 --> 27:35.720 have another phase, but then you know we were wrong. Not to mention most secret phases 27:35.720 --> 27:39.400 don't happen when a boss hits 0%. It's usually at like a slightly higher percent. 27:39.400 --> 27:45.640 So as soon as we were getting to zero it was even less likely that there's a secret phase also a lot of secret phases are 27:45.640 --> 27:48.600 At least recently are at the end of expansion rate 27:49.240 --> 27:53.920 Not at the beginning night hold is at the beginning, but that's fucking like almost 10 years ago, right? 27:53.920 --> 27:59.040 So like the recent secret phases have been at the end of expansion. So it wasn't an expansion 28:00.320 --> 28:02.320 it wasn't 28:02.720 --> 28:07.040 At like five or ten percent or something and it still was data-mined 28:07.040 --> 28:12.040 But the boss was so hard that we just figured that they gave up on it and it just wasn't going to happen 28:12.040 --> 28:17.260 And like basically everything had to go right for that moment to be what it was which is really fucking cool 28:17.260 --> 28:20.240 But I think it's pretty unlikely to happen again, and I can tell you 28:20.720 --> 28:28.080 Going forward will be skeptical that there's secret faces all the time if there's any spells like it because because we were like baited by it, right? 28:37.040 --> 28:45.400 Is there a scenario you'd bring AUG if it's not the best EPS, it's more to help classes 28:45.400 --> 28:47.040 with their niches making them stronger. 28:47.040 --> 28:49.120 You can't really do that with AUG anymore. 28:49.120 --> 28:53.560 Like AUG used to be about like, you could bring an AUG for the whole fight, but during 28:53.560 --> 28:57.240 the multi-dot part they could just buff the multi-dotters and like kind of transform 28:57.240 --> 28:58.680 into a multi-dot class. 28:58.680 --> 29:01.640 And during the burst part they would buff the people that are getting PI and all 29:01.640 --> 29:02.640 their CDs. 29:02.640 --> 29:05.800 That's not, AUG doesn't really make those decisions anymore, like they technically 29:05.800 --> 29:08.680 do with a couple of things, but they really don't. Most of their power is just kind of 29:08.680 --> 29:13.840 evenly spread out through the whole raid. Unless you do the like belleran thing, which 29:13.840 --> 29:16.920 is probably a good example of what you're talking about, where you specifically buffed 29:16.920 --> 29:21.720 the exact classes that were going to do the most damage at a certain time. But they've 29:21.720 --> 29:26.960 already fixed that. In fact, funny thing, I don't know if you guys are tracking this. 29:26.960 --> 29:30.720 The Blizzard made some nerfs to belleran over the weekend. And then alongside those 29:30.720 --> 29:36.960 nerfs, they hot-fixed bellerin, or they hot-fixed Augs, ebb and might buff to not be 100 yards, 29:36.960 --> 29:43.280 but 500 yards. So you actually can't do the like triangle formation, gigabuffing your egg DPS people. 29:44.160 --> 29:49.600 And now the DPS check, I don't know if it's impossible, but it's like really, really hard. 29:49.600 --> 29:54.560 They basically made the boss a lot harder by fixing the Aug thing. And basically, 29:54.560 --> 29:59.760 I think there's a lot of guilds right now, including very good guilds, like top 30:00.720 --> 30:07.340 Very good guilds like top 20 world guilds are sitting at bellerin unable to kill it 30:09.160 --> 30:13.060 Be until they fix this which is kind of like an ongoing situation 30:16.740 --> 30:22.620 Like northern sky for example Rilo's guild absolute banger guild had a pole where they had a 40% burn 30:22.620 --> 30:26.900 Which is probably good without the odd stuff and then they wiped it two and a half percent 30:26.900 --> 30:31.500 And they're just sitting there like literally just what do we do and 30:32.380 --> 30:34.380 Before you guys suggest it 30:34.900 --> 30:37.420 Doing a third p1 is not an option 30:38.780 --> 30:41.540 That phase is so that phase is probably harder than Lura 30:42.420 --> 30:47.180 We saw like five seconds of that phase in progression and we changed to a 30:47.780 --> 30:49.780 two-egg phase burn strat 30:50.540 --> 30:53.300 Before we even knew that it was mathematically possible 30:53.300 --> 30:57.940 we actually knew that from what we were doing at that point, you actually couldn't do it. 30:58.340 --> 31:05.140 But we just said there's a better chance of us optimizing and somehow figuring out how did two-phase this egg 31:05.140 --> 31:11.140 than it would ever be to do whatever the fuck that third phase is. Like do you know how insane of a decision that is? Like 31:11.820 --> 31:14.900 there's four quills. This is before the nerf. There's four quills. 31:16.580 --> 31:22.580 There's probably, we don't know how the orbs actually buff in that phase. We know at the end of the second egg phase you get 31:22.580 --> 31:28.180 circular orbs to come in. You can actually see this on our kill. Let's see, liquid 31:28.180 --> 31:30.460 armory. 31:43.220 --> 31:49.460 All right, look at this. It's near the end of this fight. We're in the last egg 31:49.460 --> 31:52.460 What do you guys notice about the end of this egg phase? 31:52.460 --> 31:55.460 Do you guys see, the fight's about to end so you don't realize it. 31:55.460 --> 31:58.460 Do you see the orbs coming in towards the boss? 31:58.460 --> 32:00.460 Right here. 32:00.460 --> 32:06.460 There's like 10 orbs coming in to the boss that you would have to immediately deal with after this phase ends. 32:06.460 --> 32:13.460 And this at the same time, when you come out of the first egg phase. 32:13.460 --> 32:20.220 Okay, so you're coming out of the first egg phase and look at like, oh, shit, I'm back 32:20.220 --> 32:21.220 up a little bit. 32:21.220 --> 32:25.260 So the first egg phase ends and you have all of these orbs to deal with. 32:25.260 --> 32:26.260 They're all trying to hit the boss. 32:26.260 --> 32:29.380 But you're going to have to deal with these at the exact same time that you're dealing 32:29.380 --> 32:31.940 with the orbs coming in the center. 32:31.940 --> 32:33.980 And then we don't even know how the orbs buff. 32:33.980 --> 32:36.780 So like when you're in the second P1 phase, you know how they added to this 32:36.780 --> 32:39.420 where like the orbs come in in a circle. 32:39.420 --> 32:44.180 Well, we know in the last P1 of Bellaryn that the orbs are increased again somehow. 32:44.180 --> 32:48.100 And our theory is that they might spawn from all four walls at a time. 32:48.100 --> 32:52.540 Like, do you notice how it's spawning right here from like this wall, and then also on 32:52.540 --> 32:55.500 the other side of the room it's doing this and they're like coming together? 32:55.500 --> 32:58.500 I think there's going to be all four walls in third P1. 32:58.500 --> 33:02.420 Like I think the third P1 of Bellaryn is the hardest boss of all time and is probably 33:02.420 --> 33:03.920 impossible. 33:03.920 --> 33:08.380 Maybe not after it's been nerfed, but the solution of like, okay, the AUG thing 33:08.380 --> 33:18.380 no longer works is like the boss just becomes like fucking crazy but yeah 33:18.380 --> 33:20.900 because gills don't really have an option because if you don't have the 33:20.900 --> 33:29.940 damage now with no aug P1 is also not a third P1 is also not an option so 33:38.380 --> 33:48.580 We had today an egg one burn of 38.8% but it's crazy RNG. Yeah, you know what the RNG is, right? 33:48.580 --> 33:54.480 There's a little RNG across the board but there's one major point of RNG and it's whether your 33:54.480 --> 34:00.700 Augs, Crit or Ebonmite. They've got to fix that like right now. That's insane. The fact that 34:00.700 --> 34:05.820 Crit is their best stat, they still have like 30 to 40% of it. But if they cast Ebonmite 34:05.820 --> 34:07.780 And it crits on the whole raid. 34:07.780 --> 34:09.020 And if it doesn't create, it doesn't 34:09.020 --> 34:10.580 crit on the whole raid. 34:10.580 --> 34:14.380 Instead of it like, critting per person or something. 34:14.380 --> 34:15.500 It's so insane. 34:15.500 --> 34:18.380 Like, it's just a massive DPS check. 34:18.380 --> 34:19.900 Or just a massive RNG thing. 34:19.900 --> 34:21.860 And then the egg is just a massive DPS check now. 34:29.340 --> 34:31.540 How many polls will Lura take you this week? 34:31.540 --> 34:35.100 We're not even doing Lura this week. 34:35.100 --> 34:38.020 We're going to do some chill voidspire on Monday. 35:00.700 --> 35:03.140 How close are other guilds to Laura now? 35:05.100 --> 35:19.340 Oh, Chinese guilds in P4. 35:19.340 --> 35:20.340 So they'll kill it soon. 35:20.340 --> 35:23.340 As soon as you're in P4, the boss can die in E-Pull. 35:23.340 --> 35:26.060 P4 is one-shotable, straight up. 35:26.060 --> 35:33.840 Some of you in this chat will pull Lura and you could one-shot it for sure. 35:33.840 --> 35:38.760 You need exactly nine people to do splinters correctly, which is certainly something that 35:38.760 --> 35:41.880 could just RNG happen. 35:41.880 --> 35:52.480 And then you just win. 35:52.480 --> 35:55.720 Are you not doing Lura because Bellrin's impossible? 35:55.720 --> 36:02.320 Now we're just chilling. 36:02.320 --> 36:04.360 I've gotten flamed after by saying, 36:04.360 --> 36:05.840 Bellerin is badly tuned. 36:05.840 --> 36:07.240 What do you think? 36:07.240 --> 36:08.360 Do you mean like right now? 36:08.360 --> 36:11.560 I mean, you have to be careful of who you're talking to. 36:11.560 --> 36:16.480 An example, the best example of this is Gallywix. 36:16.480 --> 36:19.000 I've used this example before, but if I'm 36:19.000 --> 36:21.960 using the Court of Public Opinion being my Twitch chat, 36:21.960 --> 36:25.520 if I were to say Gallywix was tuned poorly, 36:25.520 --> 36:26.840 they missed on Gallywix. 36:26.840 --> 36:28.680 And you were to say that right after the race world 36:28.680 --> 36:30.680 first, where still most of your viewers 36:30.680 --> 36:35.880 are basing their opinion on watching the race and a lot of them are race viewers and not players they'd be like, yeah, bro, so true 36:36.640 --> 36:41.040 Gallywix they told what is Blizzard doing? They totally fuck this. I'm fucking mad and 36:41.400 --> 36:47.400 If you even one month later said like they missed on Gallywix your entire chat would have the opposite reaction 36:47.400 --> 36:50.520 They're like, yo fuck you shut up race to world first elitist 36:50.520 --> 36:55.920 Like it is so much better to have bosses around Gallywix's difficulty than whatever the fuck answer Ike was 36:56.120 --> 36:59.680 So like there's clearly a major difference based on your priorities 36:59.680 --> 37:09.680 And you'd be surprised at how some people will feel about that versus others. 37:17.680 --> 37:21.680 That makes me wonder about how they're going to do the 0.7 mini raid. 37:21.680 --> 37:27.680 Yeah, I mean I asked them in an interview, which I thought is like, I thought that was a relevant question. 37:27.680 --> 37:31.400 Like, what is the tuning target for the one boss raid? 37:31.400 --> 37:32.800 You haven't done this in a long time. 37:32.800 --> 37:37.820 The last one you did was fucking UNET, which obviously was really poorly received by the 37:37.820 --> 37:39.220 general public. 37:39.220 --> 37:41.440 So like, you'd assume maybe you're going the opposite direction. 37:41.440 --> 37:45.160 It's gonna be really, like, I don't think there's, personally, I think there's like 37:45.160 --> 37:47.540 no way they're gonna make it super hard. 37:47.540 --> 37:48.640 Because like, what are we even doing? 37:48.640 --> 37:53.360 Like, it's replacing like some other things that are usually like giving you gear in 37:53.360 --> 37:55.400 the .7 patch. 37:55.400 --> 37:57.400 And like, don't they want that to be accessible? 37:57.400 --> 38:01.400 it's already near the end of the season. You're not getting the beginning of the season draw, 38:01.400 --> 38:06.360 and it's also right before the new season. Yeah, basically it's the Dell belt, exactly. So like, 38:08.280 --> 38:12.360 I mean, personally would blow my mind if they made it like multiple hundreds of polls for a 38:12.360 --> 38:18.840 race to world first skill that laid into a season. Because if they were also, I feel like 38:18.840 --> 38:22.200 wouldn't they be communicating that to us? Because then we would be like, okay, maybe 38:22.200 --> 38:25.560 we'll make an event for this or something. We could have two events every season now 38:25.560 --> 38:32.480 That's massive for the game's marketing and it's also massive for us they would they would want to communicate that to us 38:33.520 --> 38:35.520 But they haven't and 38:35.520 --> 38:40.280 We've asked and I asked in a public interview like what's your tuning target and they're like yeah 38:40.280 --> 38:43.920 We're not really talking about future patches. It's like okay. I get it PR training 38:43.920 --> 38:48.680 But like this I feel like everyone the game is kind of interested in what at least the ideas for that 38:48.680 --> 38:52.920 I don't think you're like jeopardizing your content by at least letting people know what to prepare for 38:55.560 --> 39:03.000 So, yeah, I'm looking for probably not, there's not going to be like a race for it, I think. 39:03.000 --> 39:07.560 At least the first time, because even if it's hard, none of our guilds know that it's hard, 39:07.560 --> 39:11.280 so we can't really like separate time for it or make an event for it. 39:11.280 --> 39:20.520 Because, like, imagine you do that and it just dies instantly, like, you can't do that. 39:20.520 --> 39:23.960 Has there ever been an end boss with so many instant raid white mechanics? 39:29.800 --> 39:30.960 Kind of Gallywix. 39:30.960 --> 39:33.560 Like, I mean, Gallywix had the fire-accid thing. 39:39.080 --> 39:41.640 But, I mean, obviously the rest of that boss wasn't that difficult. 39:43.520 --> 39:48.120 Yeah, I mean, the way that Lura plays out is like, if you lose anyone in P1, 39:48.120 --> 39:49.520 you're just going to wipe to the next kicks. 39:50.520 --> 39:53.520 So it's not even just the fire-acceed people. 39:53.520 --> 39:57.520 The boss requires as many kicks as you have in your raid. 39:57.520 --> 40:00.520 So if anyone's dead, you just automatically die. 40:10.520 --> 40:12.520 Max, maybe it's already been asked today, 40:12.520 --> 40:14.520 but how do you feel about the current state of mages? 40:14.520 --> 40:17.520 I'm not even going to read the rest of that. I don't really care. 40:17.520 --> 40:19.520 Not about your question just about mages. 40:19.520 --> 40:21.120 not the right person to ask for that. 40:29.960 --> 40:32.640 Max, you really took sneak.lua personally 40:32.640 --> 40:34.640 because you have just went off since then. 40:39.360 --> 40:42.280 I mean, I think we were going off before then and then. 40:46.040 --> 40:46.960 I don't think so. 40:46.960 --> 40:55.880 I've never really felt like massively driven out of like anger or anything in the race at all 40:55.880 --> 41:03.120 like after Razageth I just felt defeated because it's like not Echo's fault that happened it's just 41:03.120 --> 41:07.280 like what do you even do okay you get mad at Blizzard like cool like you're just gonna do 41:07.280 --> 41:14.120 their next raid anyway so who cares the only time I've truly felt like driven because I just 41:14.120 --> 41:19.220 wanted to like spite someone is there was a couple of clips after 41:19.640 --> 41:22.640 sepulcher specifically, where like a couple of their raiders 41:22.640 --> 41:28.120 were like, getting real. You know, just basically making fun of 41:28.120 --> 41:31.560 us for stopping and especially their casters. There's a couple 41:31.560 --> 41:36.960 clips of their casters. You know, just poking fun at us. And 41:37.320 --> 41:40.760 I don't know, that was a pretty sensitive time. And that made 41:40.760 --> 41:47.320 me really fucking mad. And that made me want to make them lose for the rest of my life. 41:47.320 --> 41:51.040 And like that hasn't lasted since then, you know, I don't like actively think about that 41:51.040 --> 41:55.760 anymore, but that's probably the only time that I felt like I felt like that was pretty 41:55.760 --> 42:00.880 bullshit and not like very sportsman like, and that that definitely drove me. But it's 42:00.880 --> 42:22.640 It's been a long time since I've even thought about that. 42:22.640 --> 42:26.760 Max, how did you feel when you saw that Echo was at 5% to 6% and you had just started the 42:26.760 --> 42:28.880 day? 42:28.880 --> 42:31.320 I felt the same way as Demensius, which is, 42:33.720 --> 42:35.440 I felt kind of happy because I assumed 42:35.440 --> 42:37.080 I was gonna wake up and have lost, 42:37.080 --> 42:38.200 and that it wasn't the case, 42:38.200 --> 42:40.480 so we're immediately starting off on a positive, 42:40.480 --> 42:42.360 but maybe I'm just pessimistic, I don't know. 42:42.360 --> 42:45.040 And then after, like Demensius, 42:45.040 --> 42:46.620 I was kind of like, shit and bricks the whole day, 42:46.620 --> 42:47.520 and then we won. 42:47.520 --> 42:49.040 So this tier, I was like, I don't know, 42:49.040 --> 42:50.120 we kind of did this last year, 42:50.120 --> 42:53.280 maybe we'll just outpace them, and then we did. 42:54.400 --> 42:55.600 And then the next day we woke up, 42:55.600 --> 42:57.320 and now we've done this twice, so it's like, 42:57.320 --> 42:59.860 I mean, fuck it. Let's just let's just hit this shit again. 43:01.820 --> 43:05.480 All of that is some combination of certainly playing well under pressure, 43:07.320 --> 43:08.820 but also getting a little lucky, right? 43:08.820 --> 43:11.080 Like just literally it's the smallest margins ever. 43:11.080 --> 43:15.420 Like on Demensius, they could have had like an extra crit, basically. 43:15.780 --> 43:16.860 And they could have won. 43:16.860 --> 43:19.860 They obviously you have people not dying stuff in this raid. 43:20.680 --> 43:23.760 They had multiple polls where like literally one thing 43:24.060 --> 43:25.520 if that did not go wrong, 43:25.520 --> 43:29.240 which is perfectly reasonable that that wouldn't have happened. 43:29.240 --> 43:31.200 But I mean, it's kind of hard to look at stuff like that. 43:31.200 --> 43:35.080 Like, that's just kind of how rating works. 43:35.080 --> 43:36.720 Like, basically, when you boil that down, 43:36.720 --> 43:38.280 all you're saying is, man, that's crazy. 43:38.280 --> 43:42.400 They could have killed the boss if they just didn't wipe. 43:42.400 --> 43:44.280 It's like, well, yeah. 43:44.280 --> 43:47.960 A lot of times, making one mistake on a boss like this 43:47.960 --> 43:48.760 just wipes you. 43:48.760 --> 43:49.840 That's how hard they are. 43:49.840 --> 43:52.680 That's kind of just how this works, right? 43:52.680 --> 43:55.160 But yeah, seeing how close they got afterwards. 43:55.160 --> 44:01.160 I didn't know how close they were, but that doesn't really, like, I knew when I woke, I knew they were at 10%. 44:01.160 --> 44:07.400 I never knew they got any lower than that, but that's not any less or more nerve-wracking. Like, whether you wipe it 10%, 20%, 44:09.000 --> 44:14.280 0.5%, 5%, all that means is they could kill at any pull. 44:15.800 --> 44:17.800 No one of those means that more than the other. 44:18.760 --> 44:25.000 So it's just kind of like, I'm hoping I don't get a notification and discord that they killed it, and I'm just going to keep pulling. 44:25.160 --> 44:41.360 Max, is it true you guys were going to play seven MM hunters if the damage check on Paladins 44:41.360 --> 44:42.360 was harder? 44:42.360 --> 44:46.560 Yes. 44:46.560 --> 44:53.140 We had seven hunters geared for that boss. 44:53.140 --> 45:00.140 Also for dragons by the way, like if the dragon's DPS check was super tight, you also would have played just more hunters. 45:10.740 --> 45:14.780 If you're that close in a race, do you want to know when they kill it or just focus on the day? 45:14.780 --> 45:19.080 I mean, yeah, once they kill it, you want to know because then you just take like a long break. 45:19.080 --> 45:23.400 Like once they kill it all the pressure is gone it obviously sucks, but it's like 45:24.920 --> 45:25.880 You know 45:25.880 --> 45:29.880 You kind of need to like take a little break and like relock in to just finish the tier 45:29.880 --> 45:30.360 But yeah 45:30.360 --> 45:31.800 I mean you have to know when they kill it 45:31.800 --> 45:34.680 But you don't want to know when they're close to killing it because it could make you play worse 45:34.840 --> 45:37.080 But as soon as you lose nothing matters you could 45:37.560 --> 45:41.240 Take a week off go on vacation and come back and just kill it whenever it's completely irrelevant 45:41.880 --> 45:43.880 Getting second means actually nothing 45:49.080 --> 46:00.160 Um, Max, you say Blizzard doesn't care at all about the races. 46:00.160 --> 46:01.660 That really true. 46:01.660 --> 46:05.520 Um, I, first of all, I didn't say that. 46:05.520 --> 46:09.180 It's the first second time day someone's just said Max, you said this and I just didn't 46:09.180 --> 46:10.680 say that. 46:10.680 --> 46:17.920 Um, yeah, they, uh, yeah, it is a huge free ad for them. 46:17.920 --> 46:18.920 They obviously care. 46:18.920 --> 46:20.800 For example, if the race world first wasn't a thing, 46:20.800 --> 46:24.080 do you think they would have like turbo buffed bellarine 46:24.080 --> 46:24.920 in the second week? 46:24.920 --> 46:27.840 Like clearly they do some things to make sure 46:27.840 --> 46:30.360 there's like a spectacle in the race, 46:30.360 --> 46:33.720 but they also don't go as far as to like own the race 46:33.720 --> 46:35.760 or run it or put up prize money and stuff. 46:35.760 --> 46:38.040 But also I don't know if that's a bad thing. 46:38.040 --> 46:39.360 I don't have a lot of criticisms 46:39.360 --> 46:41.360 for the way Blizzard handles the race. 46:41.360 --> 46:44.520 As opposed to before, they massively fix issues quicker 46:44.520 --> 46:48.520 now and there are less issues that happen 46:48.520 --> 46:51.640 for like a streamlined smooth progression 46:51.640 --> 46:53.400 and they don't really get in our way. 46:53.400 --> 46:56.920 So I don't know, I'm not like disappointed 46:56.920 --> 46:57.760 with how they handle that. 46:57.760 --> 47:01.000 And I don't know if I would want them to like fully run it. 47:01.000 --> 47:05.560 They don't have a exactly a stellar history with eSports. 47:05.560 --> 47:10.560 And I think race is one of the most like very, 47:11.120 --> 47:13.000 it's just so interesting and different 47:13.000 --> 47:14.080 than most other eSports. 47:14.080 --> 47:16.480 I don't, it's kind of is what it is 47:16.480 --> 47:17.480 because of the community. 47:17.480 --> 47:19.480 I don't know if they want to get into that. 47:31.960 --> 47:33.420 Doing the fact that the race is streamed 47:33.420 --> 47:36.480 helps Blizzard identify issues in a timely manner. 47:36.480 --> 47:37.380 I don't know if it helps them, 47:37.380 --> 47:40.120 but it certainly makes them care more about fixing them. 47:40.120 --> 47:43.160 As the race has gone and gotten more popular, 47:43.160 --> 47:44.280 they fix things faster. 47:44.280 --> 47:45.780 Like even in the Ashara race, 47:45.780 --> 47:47.800 the third stream graced world first. 47:49.340 --> 47:51.340 The boss was unprogressively overtuned 47:51.340 --> 47:53.000 for two straight days and it wasn't fixed. 47:53.000 --> 47:56.060 There's no way that would happen in today's day and age. 47:56.060 --> 47:58.240 Like it's just gotten way better over time. 48:04.340 --> 48:06.800 What was the first stream grace? 48:06.800 --> 48:07.640 Oh dear. 48:10.340 --> 48:13.940 Max, can you explain how Liquid solved the memory game? 48:13.940 --> 48:20.940 That's right, mentioned that they had an external player watching and sending inputs, sure. 48:20.940 --> 48:26.260 All right, so here's the, so there's three, there's three phases. 48:26.260 --> 48:38.340 There's like the main phase, there's the blue phase, and there's the red phase, okay. 48:38.340 --> 48:42.620 In those phases, you get different signs, okay. 48:42.620 --> 48:48.460 So in the main phase, you get signs 1 and 4. 48:48.460 --> 48:50.980 There's five total signs. 48:50.980 --> 48:54.620 I don't remember if it's the blue or the red phase that also gets two, but I'm just 48:54.620 --> 48:56.820 going to say it's the blue phase, doesn't matter. 48:56.820 --> 49:05.420 It's just one of the other two phases gets mark 2 and mark 5. 49:05.420 --> 49:07.140 And the other one gets mark 3. 49:07.140 --> 49:09.540 And it goes out sequentially like this. 49:09.540 --> 49:15.220 Okay, so how we solved it is actually pretty similar to how you could solve this with basically typing it in chat 49:15.860 --> 49:19.060 So basically a tank is guaranteed to be in the main phase 49:19.780 --> 49:24.660 And it always sends one healer down to the blue and red phase now if you wanted to always be the same healer 49:24.660 --> 49:26.660 You could actually give the other two healers 49:27.140 --> 49:28.500 seeds 49:28.500 --> 49:31.700 And then they would never go downstairs to guarantee it's on these two people 49:31.700 --> 49:35.220 We thought healer seeds were terrible. So all four healers had to learn how to do this 49:35.940 --> 49:37.060 um 49:37.060 --> 49:41.940 But basically, those people have a thing on their UI that looks something like this. 49:41.940 --> 49:44.740 It's like a box, and then it just has like the five icons. 49:44.740 --> 49:53.260 It's like a triangle, a X, a diamond, a we use circle. 49:53.260 --> 49:54.580 I know this is very confusing. 49:54.580 --> 49:58.420 Some people saw like the triangle as a G and some shit, but it's whatever. 49:58.580 --> 50:03.660 And then the last one is a T, which we used blue for that for some reason. 50:03.660 --> 50:06.540 But I get it just because like we didn't think it really looked like a star. 50:06.540 --> 50:07.780 So, but you could use star fat. 50:07.780 --> 50:09.060 So let's say those are the five symbols. 50:09.180 --> 50:15.300 So each of those, each of these people, the tanks and the healers all have a box on their screen. 50:15.740 --> 50:20.060 And basically when the tanks first thing goes off and they see orange, they type orange. 50:20.060 --> 50:22.220 And then that puts an orange at the beginning of your week aura. 50:22.660 --> 50:24.260 The healer downstairs is blue. 50:24.260 --> 50:25.180 They see a diamond. 50:25.780 --> 50:27.500 The healer downstairs red. 50:27.500 --> 50:28.060 See something. 50:28.060 --> 50:31.820 Let's say it's a triangle and then the healer and then now back up to the tank. 50:31.900 --> 50:33.180 The tank sees number four. 50:33.960 --> 50:35.540 And let's say it's a star. 50:35.540 --> 50:42.540 And then the last healer sees five, which is an X, or a triangle. 50:42.540 --> 50:45.540 Let's say a triangle, because it can actually be two of the same thing. 50:45.540 --> 50:48.540 And not use one of the markers just to make it even more confusing. 50:48.540 --> 50:51.540 They press that, and then everyone else that shows up on their screen. 50:51.540 --> 50:54.540 Think of this thing on your screen as, and this is why this was allowed. 50:54.540 --> 50:56.540 It's basically just a chat box. 50:56.540 --> 50:59.540 So obviously what we did was we used the actual icons from the fight, 50:59.540 --> 51:01.540 but you could just use raid markers. 51:01.540 --> 51:04.540 And this is no different than if you just had raid chat, 51:04.540 --> 51:11.340 And your tank had a key bind that just simply put in a circle marker and raid chat. 51:11.340 --> 51:13.140 And then your healer had a key bind that had a diamond. 51:13.140 --> 51:14.900 Then your other healer had a key bind with triangle. 51:14.900 --> 51:16.460 And then your tank had one with star. 51:16.460 --> 51:20.300 And then your other healer had a triangle again. 51:20.300 --> 51:26.340 And then everyone just basically reads their raid chat instead of reading these 51:26.340 --> 51:28.100 markers on your screen. 51:28.100 --> 51:31.100 It's very binary, just regular communication, right? 51:31.100 --> 51:32.420 That's why they didn't remove this, 51:32.420 --> 51:35.260 because it's just very, very simple. 51:35.260 --> 51:37.460 Echo said on their stream that they 51:37.460 --> 51:41.900 had an analyst sit in their raid and do this. 51:41.900 --> 51:43.380 We had our players do it. 51:43.380 --> 51:45.260 We talked about having an analyst do it. 51:45.260 --> 51:46.860 And for two reasons we didn't want to. 51:46.860 --> 51:49.700 Number one, that means you're just wasting an analyst. 51:49.700 --> 51:51.660 Like, this person is just strapped to their computer 51:51.660 --> 51:53.100 pressing buttons for all progression, 51:53.100 --> 51:56.580 instead of like doing something helpful. 51:56.580 --> 52:00.700 Number two, and it's not helpful because it's 52:00.700 --> 52:02.140 not hard to do this in-game at all. 52:02.140 --> 52:03.780 We had like zero wipes to this. 52:03.780 --> 52:05.080 Not zero, but very few. 52:07.660 --> 52:09.580 And then on top of that, 52:09.580 --> 52:12.180 we kind of didn't want Blizzard to get mad at us. 52:12.180 --> 52:15.100 Like we felt like if this was players in-game, 52:16.940 --> 52:20.020 just typing these memory game mechanics out, 52:20.020 --> 52:23.460 it's basically just a smarter way of displaying 52:23.460 --> 52:24.900 and inputting the information 52:24.900 --> 52:26.700 that you could just type in Raid Chat, 52:26.700 --> 52:29.100 which is like, they could never get mad about it. 52:29.100 --> 52:30.580 They could never nerf this. 52:30.580 --> 52:50.580 That was important going into the tier because you never want to go in on a solution that they might change then you're losing time right you have to create a new one, even though we had backup plans and stuff, but something that we thought was Blizzard would not be mad at all about this this is super normal but as soon as you have someone outside the raid solving the memory game. 52:50.580 --> 52:58.300 That can be something where I could absolutely see them being like this is if you just look purely based on their philosophy 52:58.300 --> 53:00.300 I can see them hating the fuck out of that 53:00.780 --> 53:02.780 So that's why we didn't do it 53:02.940 --> 53:06.980 But I understand why echo did it though because like I feel like once you see us doing this 53:06.980 --> 53:07.980 You're like, okay 53:07.980 --> 53:10.740 Well, we can just use someone outside the raid doing it and as soon as they're not punishing us 53:10.740 --> 53:15.020 They're not gonna punish them even though it's slightly different. I also doubt maybe they would punish for it at all 53:15.020 --> 53:20.300 we just felt like if you're if we're putting ourselves in Blizzard shoes you hate the 53:20.300 --> 53:24.460 outside of the raid person doing this 10 times more than doing it inside the raid and we just didn't want to fuck with that. 53:26.900 --> 53:35.740 But what's the difference between that and 21st Man? Because what the 21st Man is doing is they are communicating things to you and they are saying things in comms and like basically raiding you. 53:36.100 --> 53:44.780 This is literally making this is someone outside the raid doing a mechanic that's happening inside the raid by literally like doing the mechanic. 53:44.780 --> 53:51.840 It's you're right though like you could say like what's the difference between them typing a thing in-game in their wow client 53:53.060 --> 53:57.240 Versus like just saying the things well obviously it's like better to see them 53:57.240 --> 54:00.740 But I mean it's still just communication right like saying it versus typing it 54:00.740 --> 54:04.980 But I don't know we just nothing's gonna happen anyone no one's getting in trouble for this 54:04.980 --> 54:08.920 I'm just telling you why we didn't do it because we just felt like it crossed the sketch line 54:09.500 --> 54:11.500 That's simple 54:11.500 --> 54:18.980 That's how that worked. Also, something that we didn't implement in that would have made 54:18.980 --> 54:26.440 the last phase DPS check a little easier. I was talking about this in a Discord last night. 54:26.440 --> 54:29.940 You can actually save some seeds in the last phase. So usually how the last phase works 54:29.940 --> 54:36.820 is like the first thing happens, right? The first arc arc angel happens. Each side 54:36.820 --> 54:42.660 use the seed. Okay, then after that, you go up here. Now each side uses a seed again. 54:42.660 --> 54:47.340 And at this point, there's like, I guess I could do this real quick. 54:47.340 --> 54:55.900 Okay, there's some like massive fucking frontal shadow thing here. 54:55.900 --> 55:05.900 Right. There's another one here. Okay. And then you do a second one, right? Okay, 55:05.900 --> 55:08.340 So now you go up here and you do your last one. 55:08.340 --> 55:10.300 I guess I should make this even more clear. 55:10.300 --> 55:14.300 So you actually have three, you have three here. 55:18.420 --> 55:20.140 And then now you have two here. 55:22.140 --> 55:24.360 And then now you just have the one remaining 55:24.360 --> 55:26.680 with the other two massive frontal things. 55:32.980 --> 55:34.780 Okay, something like this. 55:34.780 --> 55:40.620 It's actually much, much bigger than this, but something like this, this looks like pretty, 55:40.620 --> 55:47.180 it's actually even bigger than this, but whatever. Okay. Then you use this, and then after you use 55:47.180 --> 55:52.220 these last two lights, like basically this last frontal is going off and you're just trying to 55:52.220 --> 55:59.020 like beat the enrage. This is what you guys saw. If I go back to my handy dandy liquid armory here, 55:59.020 --> 56:02.340 This is what you guys see at the end of P3. 56:02.340 --> 56:08.340 UCS using our last two seeds right here. 56:08.340 --> 56:12.620 But what's possible is at the beginning and the end of this phase, 56:12.620 --> 56:14.460 because you're all next to each other, 56:14.460 --> 56:19.500 you could actually have one of these seed players actually put their seed down here 56:19.500 --> 56:24.900 and have one group stand on this side and the other group stand on this side. 56:24.900 --> 56:35.900 and you can use one seed to solve this Dark Archangel cast. Now if you use that idea over the whole phase, 56:35.900 --> 56:41.900 you can actually gain three extra seeds. So if you go back to the beginning of the phase, 56:41.900 --> 56:49.900 when you do the first Dark Archangel, like when you actually do the first Dark Archangel, 56:49.900 --> 56:55.400 Instead of using one on each side, you basically come to the middle, right? 56:55.400 --> 57:00.400 And then, you basically have a gate. 57:00.400 --> 57:05.400 You gate the first one instead of the second one now. 57:05.400 --> 57:06.900 And you basically have one side on each. 57:06.900 --> 57:09.900 You'd be very careful not to touch each other because you'll instantly die. 57:09.900 --> 57:18.900 And then now, once you go to the second one, 57:18.900 --> 57:21.860 Now you have three on one side and two on the other. 57:23.860 --> 57:25.460 What does this, but what does that give you? 57:25.460 --> 57:26.980 Just more space on the secret phase. 57:26.980 --> 57:28.180 Oh, you'll see. 57:28.180 --> 57:29.940 I'll get done explaining to you in a second 57:29.940 --> 57:31.940 why you would do this. 57:31.940 --> 57:34.900 Okay, and let me copy some of these things. 57:40.940 --> 57:42.460 Okay, so now you have extra lights. 57:42.460 --> 57:44.060 So I guess it kind of makes this phase 57:44.060 --> 57:45.460 a little bit easier, right? 57:45.460 --> 57:56.460 Now, after this, you use, this is just normal. You just use one per. So I'll go up here on the next one. 57:56.460 --> 58:03.460 This group would now have one. This group now has two. And there's two more massive funnels. 58:03.460 --> 58:17.080 Okay, and now at the end of this phase, after these last sets of mechanics, you use, I'll 58:17.080 --> 58:23.560 show you where your extra seeds are in a second, but now you have two remaining seeds, one 58:23.560 --> 58:25.960 on each side. 58:25.960 --> 58:29.880 Everyone gets in here. 58:29.880 --> 58:34.000 You live the dark archangel, what you're looking at right now. 58:34.000 --> 58:38.480 You live this with just one seed in the middle, and now you have two remaining seeds. 58:38.480 --> 58:42.200 Why that's important is now you don't rot out anymore at the end of this. 58:42.200 --> 58:47.180 Now you can heal until the frontal's about to go off. 58:47.180 --> 58:52.520 Once the frontal goes off, okay, so after this, you're now down to what, you use 58:52.520 --> 58:56.560 this again, and now you're down to one seed, everyone standing still. 58:56.560 --> 59:02.480 now live the frontal. And then after that, after the frontal is over, to just live the 59:02.480 --> 59:07.680 ray damage, you use the last one as well. And now you're here again. What this does, 59:07.680 --> 59:13.280 it extends the enrage in P3 by 10 seconds. Which if you guys watched the amount of times 59:13.280 --> 59:20.200 we wiped at like whatever percentage, obviously the DPS check in this phase becomes infinitely 59:20.200 --> 59:26.600 easier by doing this. We didn't see this in progression. Well, we thought about this in 59:26.600 --> 59:31.080 progression. I talked to Roger last night and they did as well. It is a little challenging 59:31.080 --> 59:35.240 because like once the time we actually saw the enrage, we didn't need to do this to beat the 59:35.240 --> 59:41.800 enrage. And it also presents some other challenges like, like for example, you could have some 59:41.800 --> 59:47.320 deaths of people cleaving each other, it's pretty tight proximity. And we wanted to do it 59:47.320 --> 59:51.640 specifically like maybe near the end of our day after we saw the secret phase, 59:51.640 --> 59:54.400 but we knew if we did this and it actually worked the way we thought it worked 59:54.400 --> 59:57.080 because it wasn't actually positive because like the way if you notice the 59:57.080 --> 01:00:00.520 seeds only really, let me find a POV. Who pops our first seed here? 01:00:02.520 --> 01:00:05.720 Or Smacked has it right here, I think. So I think I'm watching the right POV. 01:00:06.040 --> 01:00:10.240 Yes, Smacked has the seed. So you'll notice before he presses the 01:00:10.240 --> 01:00:15.040 extra action button, it's like, it becomes like a different thing 01:00:15.040 --> 01:00:20.180 when the actual Dark Archangel is happening to like kind of show you that this is what you're supposed to use it for. 01:00:20.180 --> 01:00:22.180 So, in other difficulties. 01:00:22.180 --> 01:00:27.100 So we kind of thought of this as a binary way to just solve Dark Archangel. 01:00:27.100 --> 01:00:32.800 But it's actually just a massive DR you could technically use for anything, including the frontal or rotting Ray Damage or anything. 01:00:32.800 --> 01:00:39.040 So it was a little unintuitive to come up with it, but this, and I don't know if your guilds should do this either by the way, 01:00:39.040 --> 01:00:44.820 because now the DPS check on this boss is going to become easier and easier, and it's definitely more technically difficult to do this. 01:00:44.820 --> 01:00:46.740 so I don't know if you'd want to do it. 01:00:46.740 --> 01:00:49.140 But what you could do is just ignore the first one. 01:00:49.140 --> 01:00:51.140 Like, don't do the first thing. 01:00:51.140 --> 01:00:53.340 Just keep it all the same. 01:00:53.340 --> 01:00:55.620 And just once you get to the last part, 01:00:55.620 --> 01:00:59.060 if you're behind on damage, just only use one of the two 01:00:59.060 --> 01:01:00.940 seeds instead of both. 01:01:00.940 --> 01:01:01.980 And then try to do this. 01:01:01.980 --> 01:01:04.180 Only if you know you're behind, because maybe you'd 01:01:04.180 --> 01:01:05.860 make it with five more seconds of DPS. 01:01:10.940 --> 01:01:12.740 Sorry, that's probably really technical. 01:01:12.740 --> 01:01:14.180 And a lot of you guys don't care about that, 01:01:14.180 --> 01:01:16.620 but it's something that I was thinking about yesterday. 01:01:20.300 --> 01:01:23.460 Max, anything interesting was said in the talk with Roger? 01:01:23.460 --> 01:01:24.960 Yeah, probably a lot of stuff. 01:01:32.460 --> 01:01:33.300 Okay. 01:01:36.980 --> 01:01:41.980 We were gonna look at the pre-raid tier list. 01:01:43.060 --> 01:01:44.140 I was gonna maybe do that today, 01:01:44.140 --> 01:01:54.480 But I also don't know how long I'm going to stream today mainly because I'm still at the team liquid facility and there's going to be insanely bad traffic starting at like 4pm. 01:01:54.480 --> 01:02:00.700 And if I go home now, I'll get there in like 15 minutes. And if I go home in an hour, I'll get home in like 50, 50 minutes. 01:02:01.540 --> 01:02:03.740 But I'm also having fun streaming at the moment. 01:02:04.140 --> 01:02:05.020 So maybe not. 01:02:14.140 --> 01:02:22.140 Max, sorry if someone asked this, but do you take a week off after race road first? 01:02:22.140 --> 01:02:30.140 Yeah, usually. For example, we killed it last reset and then this reset, we haven't rated until next Monday. 01:02:30.140 --> 01:02:33.140 So yeah, we generally speaking, yes. 01:02:44.140 --> 01:02:48.100 I live in LA so the gambit is stream for the length of rush hour, bro 01:02:48.100 --> 01:02:51.240 That would mean if I have to stream for the length of rush hour that means I would stream 01:02:51.780 --> 01:02:56.820 From now until like 7 30 or 8 p.m. Be like five hours, which is fine 01:02:57.740 --> 01:03:02.940 Well, my girlfriend just came home from vacation, so I want to spend some time with her so I'm not gonna take that long 01:03:02.940 --> 01:03:14.940 Max, are there any players you thought leveled up this year? 01:03:14.940 --> 01:03:16.940 I think everyone in our guild just played so insane. 01:03:23.940 --> 01:03:29.940 Max, apologies if I'm repeating myself, but do you see yourself taking 20 characters into next year? 01:03:29.940 --> 01:03:36.820 Well, the issue with 20 characters is way big. So there's two answers to this. Number one, I'm going to go with I hope not 01:03:37.700 --> 01:03:40.780 Because I think if we do this again, our entire guild's going to quit 01:03:42.180 --> 01:03:44.180 Number two 01:03:44.380 --> 01:03:46.380 It is a lot easier 01:03:46.660 --> 01:03:53.100 To maintain 20 characters going into the second and third tier of an expansion that it is at the beginning at the beginning 01:03:53.100 --> 01:03:56.780 You have to level all of them and then there's like infinite mythic zeros and 01:03:56.780 --> 01:04:01.060 And like just crazy amounts of work to do but going into a new season 01:04:01.060 --> 01:04:06.080 It's actually very chill like you basically show up with full this mythic gear from the previous patch 01:04:06.080 --> 01:04:11.060 And especially this patch when you get the mythic crest achievement like all of your characters are just gonna be business 01:04:11.060 --> 01:04:13.060 Fuck just crazy good. So I 01:04:16.900 --> 01:04:21.300 Think it's gonna like it's possible that way because now the characters are already made like it's possible 01:04:21.300 --> 01:04:26.300 We still like utilize them for splits, but the reality is if we're doing a 01:04:26.780 --> 01:04:32.580 simultaneous release of no Heroic Week. Heroic and Mythic are released at the same time, which is the expectation right now. 01:04:32.580 --> 01:04:34.580 That's what we did all through the Wharton. 01:04:35.420 --> 01:04:40.480 You don't really have time to use 20 characters. Like, at least you don't have time to do 01:04:41.420 --> 01:04:43.860 20 full, like, Heroics. Like, that's just too much time. 01:04:45.380 --> 01:04:51.260 In that scenario, you pretty much only do that when you have a whole week to do it and there's nothing else to do. 01:04:51.260 --> 01:04:59.940 However, you could like keep the 20 characters and some of them are just for the last boss on Heroic 01:04:59.940 --> 01:05:04.580 because sometimes doing more of those bosses is really worth it. But I don't know. The answer is 01:05:04.580 --> 01:05:11.140 hopefully not. I'm personally very concerned about Burnout right now. This has been the hardest 01:05:11.140 --> 01:05:17.460 tier for them to prepare for and I don't want them all to quit the game. So if that and 01:05:17.460 --> 01:05:20.700 And by the way, if that means we have to go into next tier 01:05:20.700 --> 01:05:22.980 with like two or three or four less characters 01:05:22.980 --> 01:05:26.540 than our opponents, that just might have to be the case. 01:05:26.540 --> 01:05:30.220 Cause like, I don't know, like having slightly less gear 01:05:30.220 --> 01:05:32.940 is not as bad as having your best players quit the game. 01:05:47.460 --> 01:05:57.940 Max, do you think there will be more difficult bosses in the future or will Blitz chill? 01:05:57.940 --> 01:06:01.660 I mean, is there a limit for the hardness of bosses? 01:06:01.660 --> 01:06:07.380 I don't know about the last thing, but yeah, I mean, they're probably going to keep making 01:06:07.380 --> 01:06:08.380 hard bosses. 01:06:08.380 --> 01:06:13.620 Look at the last end bosses in a row, right? 01:06:13.620 --> 01:06:25.260 It is Firak, and then Ansarak, Gallywix, which is the polar bear in Arlington, Texas here. 01:06:25.260 --> 01:06:30.740 And then there is Demensius, and then Lura. 01:06:30.740 --> 01:06:36.820 So all of those besides Gallywix are like five of the ten hardest bosses ever. 01:06:36.820 --> 01:06:44.420 Most of them are within the five hardest bosses ever, and they were all really good. 01:06:44.420 --> 01:06:51.740 So like, if you look away from Gallywix, they basically just are consistently doing what 01:06:51.740 --> 01:06:55.460 would be considered the hardest boss ever, and they're re-upping themselves every single 01:06:55.460 --> 01:06:56.980 tier on that. 01:06:56.980 --> 01:07:01.660 So I mean, the expectation is going forward, they will probably keep doing that. 01:07:01.660 --> 01:07:04.300 Like, basically they've gotten themselves in a position now, or they don't really 01:07:04.300 --> 01:07:08.300 expect the majority of the community to kill this version of Lura. It's not possible. So 01:07:08.300 --> 01:07:13.660 they won't do it. Lura will be like this for this reset, and then it will look absolutely 01:07:13.660 --> 01:07:21.300 nothing like this. It'll probably get nerfed five times. And that's just kind of what 01:07:21.300 --> 01:07:25.940 we've gotten used to is like they release it for the top guilds, and then they just 01:07:25.940 --> 01:07:29.580 keep nerfing it so it becomes more fair for other people. And I think they've done 01:07:29.580 --> 01:07:31.780 a pretty, like I think that's a hard thing to do, and I think they've done 01:07:31.780 --> 01:07:36.980 pretty good job. Still guilds getting cutting edge even after these bosses are nerfed infinitely 01:07:36.980 --> 01:07:43.380 and they have 10 eye levels more or plus than we have, they still are taking 100-200 plus 01:07:43.380 --> 01:07:48.500 pulls on these bosses at the end of these patches, which is still a very difficult boss 01:07:49.620 --> 01:07:54.340 and still a very rewarding kill, right? So I think they're better at that than you think 01:07:54.340 --> 01:08:01.060 and I think it's a really hard thing to do to make content that is suitable for both the 01:08:01.060 --> 01:08:06.060 the best guilds in the world and the lower end of cutting edge. 01:08:06.060 --> 01:08:09.060 I think that's the delta between those things is enormous. 01:08:09.060 --> 01:08:12.060 So I think they overall do a pretty good job. 01:08:16.060 --> 01:08:18.060 How did you guys get Yargie? 01:08:18.060 --> 01:08:21.060 I don't know how to, we just did. 01:08:21.060 --> 01:08:26.060 We like, we just recruited him. 01:08:26.060 --> 01:08:29.060 He's not like a rare bird or something, you know what I'm saying? 01:08:29.060 --> 01:08:31.820 like he's like a player in a wild guild and we recruit him. 01:08:52.740 --> 01:08:55.040 Do you feel that method is on par with you in Echo 01:08:55.040 --> 01:08:57.740 or is there still a gap between you? 01:08:57.740 --> 01:08:59.660 I mean, there just obviously is, right? 01:08:59.660 --> 01:09:00.920 No flame. 01:09:00.920 --> 01:09:04.100 There's just very evidently a gap there. 01:09:04.100 --> 01:09:06.100 As far as like, if there's going to be 01:09:06.100 --> 01:09:10.420 a three horse race in the future, who knows, man? 01:09:10.420 --> 01:09:11.700 They're in a really tough spot. 01:09:11.700 --> 01:09:14.540 They're having us recruit their best players all the time. 01:09:15.620 --> 01:09:17.540 They have less experience naturally 01:09:17.540 --> 01:09:19.140 because of the way the race works, 01:09:19.140 --> 01:09:20.700 but hopefully they do, right? 01:09:20.700 --> 01:09:22.300 I mean, I can't answer that. 01:09:27.740 --> 01:09:31.420 Max, would you say that Bumi is the highest value addition to the guild in recent years? 01:09:32.540 --> 01:09:33.820 Maybe. He's way up there, yeah. 01:09:37.660 --> 01:09:40.460 Do you think enough players exist in the game to have a three-horse race? 01:09:41.900 --> 01:09:44.140 Enough players of that skill level? That is 01:09:45.420 --> 01:09:49.340 like probably yes, but enough players of that skill level that will realistically 01:09:49.340 --> 01:09:53.260 end up like committing the time and the characters to do this? It is 01:09:53.260 --> 01:09:59.300 is extremely, because it's already just so rare to even 01:09:59.300 --> 01:10:00.500 find people that are good enough. 01:10:00.500 --> 01:10:01.900 And then on top of that, they're 01:10:01.900 --> 01:10:04.340 willing to put in the work, because it's a very small pool. 01:10:23.260 --> 01:10:32.260 How hard is it to sit a great talent like hopeful? Just curious how they take a decision like that. 01:10:32.260 --> 01:10:43.260 I mean, it's really easy. Like hopeful is just one of many players in this guild that is like one of the best players in the world, 01:10:43.260 --> 01:10:48.260 but happens to not be playing a class that you want on the last boss, right? 01:10:48.260 --> 01:10:51.540 Like, that's just how it goes. 01:10:51.540 --> 01:10:54.460 Like, you don't play two mages on the last boss. 01:10:54.460 --> 01:10:59.340 There are nine other players that were also not in on the last boss that are just as good as that guy. 01:10:59.340 --> 01:11:02.340 It's just how it works. 01:11:02.340 --> 01:11:08.540 Sometimes you don't need five healers, sometimes you don't need, sometimes Holy Paladin isn't tuned well. 01:11:08.540 --> 01:11:11.860 Sometimes you don't want to play a rogue. 01:11:11.860 --> 01:11:14.860 Like, you know, it's just how it goes. 01:11:18.260 --> 01:11:34.260 Would you ever try to convince was to do I level caps? 01:11:34.260 --> 01:11:35.260 No. 01:11:35.260 --> 01:11:36.260 Okay. 01:11:36.260 --> 01:11:39.260 Do you live at the Alienware liquid compound now? 01:11:39.260 --> 01:11:40.260 No, dude. 01:11:40.260 --> 01:11:44.260 I just haven't had the courage to pack my stuff up and leave. 01:11:44.260 --> 01:11:46.260 It's just so annoying to do it. 01:11:46.260 --> 01:11:48.260 So I just keep driving here to stream. 01:11:53.580 --> 01:11:56.300 Were you shocked Method played this bad this tier? 01:11:57.340 --> 01:12:00.120 I don't think Method necessarily played super bad. 01:12:03.120 --> 01:12:04.740 I feel like every tier so far, 01:12:04.740 --> 01:12:07.500 they have been a step behind us in Echo, 01:12:07.500 --> 01:12:09.740 and then this tier, that was the same thing. 01:12:16.260 --> 01:12:32.180 Do you think the wind streak is making it harder for Echo to recruit and maintain their 01:12:32.180 --> 01:12:33.340 overall business success? 01:12:33.340 --> 01:12:37.380 So business success is largely tied to viewership. 01:12:37.380 --> 01:12:38.380 Recruiting maybe? 01:12:38.380 --> 01:12:41.100 But I don't know. 01:12:41.100 --> 01:12:43.940 There's still a lot of people I think even if like they had offers from us, there's 01:12:43.940 --> 01:12:46.060 a lot of people that would still rather raid an EU. 01:12:46.060 --> 01:12:48.380 There are some downsides to rating in a different region. 01:12:48.380 --> 01:12:54.700 So I don't know. 01:12:54.700 --> 01:12:56.900 They seem to be still recruiting really good players. 01:12:56.900 --> 01:12:59.180 Like, they lost some of their players to method 01:12:59.180 --> 01:13:00.660 like two tiers ago or something. 01:13:00.660 --> 01:13:03.620 And all the players they recruited were just as good. 01:13:03.620 --> 01:13:07.820 And that is insanely hard to pull off. 01:13:07.820 --> 01:13:10.140 So it seems like there's still a decent amount of talent. 01:13:10.140 --> 01:13:30.140 Max is a second NA guild possible for the race in your opinion. Yeah, there used to be one. I think it's regardless of NA or EU, it's hard for any third team to like really enter the real race for this for all the reasons we've talked about before. 01:13:30.140 --> 01:13:33.480 But yeah, BDG used to go for the race in NA. 01:13:33.480 --> 01:13:34.680 That was fucking annoying too. 01:13:34.680 --> 01:13:41.760 I do not envy Echo and Method having to fight for the same helpers. 01:13:41.760 --> 01:13:45.280 That sounds so fucking annoying, man. 01:13:45.280 --> 01:13:51.440 I'd be straight pissed off if there's another NA team going for the race. 01:13:51.440 --> 01:13:58.160 That would be so annoying. 01:13:58.160 --> 01:14:03.560 I mean, it's really hard for a race, like a guild to start going for the race in general. 01:14:03.760 --> 01:14:06.240 Like, using BDG as an example, right? 01:14:06.800 --> 01:14:12.520 Like, they were the best late-night, five-night a week guild in NA before they went for the race. 01:14:14.740 --> 01:14:18.280 That means for people who are not trying to raid Race to World First Hours, 01:14:18.560 --> 01:14:22.280 they wanted to raid later in the day, so Pacific Time or like just Night Owls. 01:14:22.280 --> 01:14:29.780 They had cornered the market on those players and created a great guild of good players that did that. 01:14:29.780 --> 01:14:32.780 And then they wanted to go for the race world first. 01:14:32.780 --> 01:14:39.780 The problem with this is now you no longer have that niche of getting those players that want that specific time frame. 01:14:39.780 --> 01:14:43.780 Now you're competing for players with us, right? 01:14:43.780 --> 01:14:46.780 And you're no longer the best at what you do. You're now the second best at what you do. 01:14:46.780 --> 01:14:48.780 So it's harder to get recruits. 01:14:48.780 --> 01:14:53.340 Some of your players that can't raid that much are going to leave when you make the jump in the amount of effort 01:14:53.760 --> 01:14:58.700 Which happened and then now it's like you're just always fighting a harder battle 01:14:58.700 --> 01:15:01.840 and if and it's only ever worth it if you win and 01:15:03.660 --> 01:15:09.860 It's just such a crazy gamble, right because now winning is the only thing that matters and it can kind of drive you crazy 01:15:12.420 --> 01:15:16.860 So it's like I don't know I feel like when you actually look at the decision from a guild even one 01:15:16.860 --> 01:15:22.780 that's really fucking good for going for race world first, even if you had just as good of players, 01:15:22.780 --> 01:15:29.340 which is not the case right now for any guild, you are fighting the experience battle. You are 01:15:29.340 --> 01:15:33.660 locking yourself into multiple years of getting better at this to even remotely have a chance. 01:15:33.660 --> 01:15:39.020 And during that time, we're going to recruit your best players and going to be giving you setbacks 01:15:39.020 --> 01:15:43.580 at every point just due to the nature of the game. You know, like it's it's an impossible ask 01:15:43.580 --> 01:15:46.300 And it makes sense why guilds do not really think about doing it. 01:15:47.940 --> 01:15:51.180 You, I thought you said viewership is what matters business-wise it is. 01:15:51.460 --> 01:15:52.260 And guess what? 01:15:52.500 --> 01:15:56.900 Get, guess who's never going to get any viewers unless you're about to win these guilds. 01:15:58.020 --> 01:16:01.780 There, the viewership comes along with the longstanding history of success. 01:16:02.180 --> 01:16:04.980 And you're fighting the narratives of people knowing who Echo players are and 01:16:04.980 --> 01:16:07.020 liquid players are, and they don't know who your players are. 01:16:07.020 --> 01:16:08.380 Therefore it's harder to care about them. 01:16:08.420 --> 01:16:11.540 Similar to like being more invested into season three of a show than season 01:16:11.540 --> 01:16:16.060 one because you've been with them for a while, right? 01:16:16.060 --> 01:16:16.660 You have no way. 01:16:16.660 --> 01:16:19.180 The only way, like these guilds have done that. 01:16:19.180 --> 01:16:22.020 They have tried to get the same level of success, 01:16:22.020 --> 01:16:23.500 but the viewership is nowhere close 01:16:23.500 --> 01:16:25.820 because people don't see them as a potential winner. 01:16:25.820 --> 01:16:29.300 And until that changes, it never will, and then you make no money. 01:16:41.540 --> 01:17:00.840 Max, bit of a weird question, but what makes Liquid's biggest stream being yours while Echo 01:17:00.840 --> 01:17:05.340 is being their main broadcast? 01:17:05.340 --> 01:17:11.180 I think it's just like what it started as, like when Echo formerly methods started doing 01:17:11.180 --> 01:17:16.980 the race to world first, they streamed with their main channel getting the most viewers 01:17:16.980 --> 01:17:19.300 and they like set it up from that from the beginning. 01:17:19.300 --> 01:17:22.900 And then when we started doing it, we didn't have like, we were just limit the guild. 01:17:22.900 --> 01:17:24.500 We didn't have like a production staff. 01:17:24.500 --> 01:17:28.820 We had like the Red Bull event, but people just listened to our stream. 01:17:28.820 --> 01:17:33.380 Also we streamed comms like a tier or two before method did. 01:17:33.380 --> 01:17:38.900 So like when you used to watch the old Methodstream, all you heard was casters and not their players. 01:17:38.900 --> 01:17:44.020 And for the first couple of tiers, you could just hear our comms and people really liked 01:17:44.020 --> 01:17:45.020 that. 01:17:45.020 --> 01:17:47.780 Now eventually Method started doing comms, but by that point, their main channel was 01:17:47.780 --> 01:17:51.420 already so dominant that people weren't going to change what they were used to. 01:17:51.420 --> 01:17:53.900 The followers were on that channel instead of different channels. 01:17:53.900 --> 01:17:55.500 And I think the opposite happened for us. 01:17:55.500 --> 01:18:01.340 By the time we actually got like a proper casting setup with like really good production, 01:18:01.340 --> 01:18:05.700 we're just used to listening to the guild at that point. I think it's just that simple. 01:18:05.700 --> 01:18:10.460 People for over a year of time for each guild got used to watching the race a certain way. 01:18:10.460 --> 01:18:13.460 Those same people keep tuning in and prefer the thing that they're used to. I think that's 01:18:13.460 --> 01:18:14.460 all it is. 01:18:31.340 --> 01:18:42.900 Max, how much do you know about advance? 01:18:42.900 --> 01:18:46.260 They seem really impressive. 01:18:46.260 --> 01:18:49.820 Maybe nothing? 01:18:49.820 --> 01:18:51.700 Are they EU or NA? 01:18:51.700 --> 01:18:52.700 I don't recognize. 01:18:52.700 --> 01:19:00.780 Oh, wait, Viclin's in the guild, so EU. 01:19:00.780 --> 01:19:14.740 me look at a roster here. Is that Andy Brew? So they got Andy and LaZell, those are the 01:19:14.740 --> 01:19:21.980 only players I know. You said they're very impressive. What are they doing? They're 01:19:21.980 --> 01:19:26.180 World 5th, they're ahead of Fat Shark, yes. What's their raid times? Fat Shark, yes, 01:19:26.180 --> 01:19:31.660 is like the quintessential always hard to tell progression 01:19:31.660 --> 01:19:33.540 rate schedule because like basically every guild in the 01:19:33.540 --> 01:19:37.180 world rates more than whatever they post publicly but so four 01:19:37.180 --> 01:19:44.060 hours Wednesday, four hours Thursday. Is that four hours 01:19:44.060 --> 01:19:51.540 still? No, that's three hours. Right? Or not six hours. Oh, 01:19:51.540 --> 01:20:05.260 Oh, yeah, sorry. Yeah, you're right. So, okay, so, six, six, four, six, six, four, four. 01:20:05.260 --> 01:20:12.300 So, seven days a week, average somewhere around five hours a night. That is eight? Oh, dude, 01:20:12.300 --> 01:20:18.380 I'm sorry, I just assumed it was the same. NA Math, you know? Oh, yeah, 16. I just 01:20:18.380 --> 01:20:22.300 seem to do is 18 again. So on the weekends they do eight hours. Okay, that's a little bit more than 01:20:22.300 --> 01:20:26.380 Fat Shark, right? Fat Shark has historically been five hours a night, seven days a week. That's been 01:20:26.380 --> 01:20:30.140 their bit. I don't know if they've ever started adding day raids and stuff, but yeah, it looks 01:20:30.140 --> 01:20:36.380 like it's still five hours a night plus they do eight hours over the weekend. And also randomly 01:20:36.380 --> 01:20:45.900 eight hours. Oh, that's because it's reset day rate. Yeah. So pretty similar. Looks like 01:20:45.900 --> 01:20:52.880 advance definitely raids a little more but pretty similar that's the guild 01:20:52.880 --> 01:20:58.660 lummals the 21st man for oh advance oh yeah I think it is 01:21:04.760 --> 01:21:12.560 six hours with a 20 minute break seems crazy that's like pretty standard for 01:21:12.560 --> 01:21:17.900 top guilds. I will say guilds generally at the top level definitely take less 01:21:17.900 --> 01:21:22.400 breaks than they should but I mean when you're when you're only rating okay I 01:21:22.400 --> 01:21:25.580 was about to say when you are only rating six hours I know that sounds 01:21:25.580 --> 01:21:30.500 insane to a lot of you but like for us that's like fucking nothing. When you're 01:21:30.500 --> 01:21:36.940 only rating six hours it depends on what time of day to. Breaks can also be like 01:21:36.940 --> 01:21:40.220 a little detrimental it depends on the kind of guild like maybe the most 01:21:40.220 --> 01:21:45.940 relatable version of this to you guys would be, have you guys ever rated in a guild with 01:21:45.940 --> 01:21:49.960 mostly people who work like nine to fives, and then you start your rate a few hours after 01:21:49.960 --> 01:21:54.100 people get home from work on a weekday, and then you play pretty good for the first like 01:21:54.100 --> 01:21:57.280 maybe hour or two of your rate, and then you have like a nice 10 minute break and then 01:21:57.280 --> 01:22:01.580 people come back and play like absolute shit. 01:22:01.580 --> 01:22:06.040 I believe that phenomenon is pretty common, and it's because basically like as soon 01:22:06.040 --> 01:22:08.860 as you come home from work, you eat and then you're like locked into play, but 01:22:08.860 --> 01:22:14.220 as soon as you like, do the opposite of like the gamer meme, like, you know, where the gamer 01:22:14.220 --> 01:22:18.220 sits up in his chair and like locks in, whenever you actually take that break, people usually 01:22:18.220 --> 01:22:21.140 just remain not locked in for the rest of the raid. There's something about it. And it's 01:22:21.140 --> 01:22:24.420 usually because you've already worked. Like you're, you're just like you're already 01:22:24.420 --> 01:22:27.540 kind of tired. Like you weren't raiding all day, but you were doing something else 01:22:27.540 --> 01:22:31.540 that was kind of making your brain do stuff. 01:22:31.540 --> 01:22:43.060 20 minutes of breaks in a six hour raid, if it's like after people eat right before it, 01:22:43.060 --> 01:22:45.700 I think that's fine. 01:22:45.700 --> 01:22:52.780 Max, weird question, but how do you make sure you still get exercise or activity raiding 01:22:52.780 --> 01:22:54.100 all day during the race? 01:22:54.100 --> 01:22:55.980 You don't. 01:22:55.980 --> 01:23:01.540 We used to do calisthenics in the morning, which was very funny. 01:23:01.540 --> 01:23:04.980 And just to get a little sunlight, actually, that was pretty OP, but some of our players 01:23:04.980 --> 01:23:09.460 didn't like it for obvious reasons. 01:23:09.460 --> 01:23:12.940 But you kind of just don't, I mean, I worry about that because I'm very active all the 01:23:12.940 --> 01:23:13.940 time. 01:23:13.940 --> 01:23:16.540 And during the race, I just feel like total shit just sitting in my computer all day. 01:23:16.540 --> 01:23:20.940 But any time I spent exercising is just going to be not helping us win the race. 01:23:20.940 --> 01:23:25.860 So it's kind of just something you sacrifice for this. 01:23:25.860 --> 01:23:43.960 definitely feels bad, but it's also the right thing to do. 01:23:43.960 --> 01:23:44.960 Walking pad while raiding. 01:23:44.960 --> 01:23:46.280 No, I can never do that. 01:23:46.280 --> 01:23:48.840 It's just too weird of a look. 01:23:48.840 --> 01:23:52.600 I've seen automatic Jack do it, and it looks like he's walking towards me to like trap 01:23:52.600 --> 01:23:58.680 me to tell me about how Holy Priest works or something. It's terrifying. 01:23:58.680 --> 01:24:25.160 Max, what's your favorite merge from the raced world first now? 01:24:25.160 --> 01:24:27.960 I think our Demensius jerseys were my favorite, 01:24:27.960 --> 01:24:29.960 but I actually think the Race to World First, 01:24:29.960 --> 01:24:32.680 the World First jersey from this one 01:24:32.680 --> 01:24:34.600 was my favorite one we've done. 01:24:34.600 --> 01:24:36.200 My single favorite shirt 01:24:36.200 --> 01:24:38.120 would be the one we released this time, 01:24:38.120 --> 01:24:39.960 but Demensius was my favorite jersey. 01:24:46.160 --> 01:24:47.920 Max, what was your favorite bit from this raid? 01:24:47.920 --> 01:24:48.960 It wasn't really a bit, 01:24:48.960 --> 01:24:51.720 but Shaq spoiling the wordle that short 01:24:51.720 --> 01:24:52.680 was just one of the, 01:24:52.680 --> 01:24:54.880 It's probably the funniest thing I've ever seen 01:24:54.880 --> 01:24:57.480 in regards to something that's happened during the race. 01:25:03.720 --> 01:25:05.920 Oh, this cannot be pretty good too, yeah. 01:25:22.680 --> 01:25:29.000 Max, what would your best idea for making splits not be a thing anymore? 01:25:29.000 --> 01:25:40.120 I've never heard a good one or thought of a good one. 01:25:40.120 --> 01:25:59.760 his favorite bit is actually the Yps raid leading on voracious because he was doing 01:25:59.760 --> 01:26:07.920 that on Lura and P2. Yeah, early in P2 I was. And then I kind of stopped. They was like, 01:26:07.920 --> 01:26:20.960 pick it up and put it down. Max, what will you do as the raid leader focus for the rest 01:26:20.960 --> 01:26:30.680 of your season, MDI? Fuck no. Oh my god, blow me up. That sounds terrible. But yeah, no. 01:26:30.680 --> 01:26:35.520 So what I'll do is help our guild re-clear farm for as long as these bosses are hard, 01:26:35.520 --> 01:26:41.520 And then I'll just drift off into the sunset and do my own shit until the next PTR comes 01:26:41.520 --> 01:26:42.520 up. 01:26:42.520 --> 01:26:46.360 6th Man MDI, bro. 01:26:46.360 --> 01:26:52.840 Having like a experienced raid leader be a real 6th Man for the MDI would be so astronomically 01:26:52.840 --> 01:26:59.880 broken, but absolutely no one will ever do it because it is so, it's just, there's 01:26:59.880 --> 01:27:00.960 no fucking way. 01:27:00.960 --> 01:27:02.480 Didn't Echo do that? 01:27:02.480 --> 01:27:03.480 No. 01:27:03.480 --> 01:27:08.360 Meera's helped them as like their sixth person, but he was not doing what I'm referring to do. No, 01:27:08.360 --> 01:27:12.760 he did not do it. You guys do not know what I'm talking about. What I'm saying is having someone 01:27:12.760 --> 01:27:18.120 outside your dungeon group call every single stop, call everything you're doing in the dungeon and 01:27:18.120 --> 01:27:23.080 literally be there for your 16 hours a day practice for weeks and months leading up to your 01:27:23.080 --> 01:27:31.160 event and shot calling everything that's happening from outside the group. No one 01:27:31.160 --> 01:27:34.200 No one has ever done that, that is not what Mira's did. 01:27:34.200 --> 01:27:37.560 That would be so broken, but obviously no one would ever do that, because like why the 01:27:37.560 --> 01:27:40.120 fuck would you do that for the MDI? 01:27:40.120 --> 01:27:47.640 It would be so fucking, it would be insane though. 01:27:47.640 --> 01:27:54.440 Yeah, yeah, Mira's was like more of like an analyst for that team, which by the way 01:27:54.440 --> 01:28:00.080 is very good, but that's not what I'm talking about. 01:28:00.080 --> 01:28:07.040 Is that even allowed? Yeah, probably. Maybe not at LAN, which there is going to be this 01:28:07.040 --> 01:28:19.480 year for the first time in a while. Do you think Mira is whatever, Lee Vecco? No. But 01:28:19.480 --> 01:28:23.920 dear god, I fucking wish he was. That'd be fucking amazing. He doesn't even have to 01:28:23.920 --> 01:28:28.480 come here, bro. He can go anywhere. He can go to the fucking moon. That'd be great. 01:28:28.480 --> 01:28:37.520 like not there okay um let me let me did someone said there was like a mirrors 01:28:37.520 --> 01:28:41.840 did like an echo Q&A was that like on his stream 01:28:44.400 --> 01:28:49.520 do you not like him oh i do i do really like him i just he's just really good 01:28:49.520 --> 01:28:54.000 and he's really smart which is bullshit 01:28:58.480 --> 01:29:27.480 Max, is it ever a hard decision on when to have the stream go dark to hide secrets? 01:29:27.480 --> 01:29:34.520 It's always a very hard decision. We had to make that decision multiple times this race and we always came up with not going dark 01:29:35.520 --> 01:29:38.520 Mostly due to when we actually killed the bosses during our day 01:29:38.520 --> 01:29:40.840 Like it was in the middle of the day and had it been at the end 01:29:40.840 --> 01:29:45.960 I think we would have gone dark, but there's also another thing about going dark. That's kind of interesting 01:29:46.960 --> 01:29:54.440 You play like shit a lot of the time. I don't know exactly why maybe people kind of relax because they're not on stream or 01:29:54.440 --> 01:30:00.380 But like most times we go dark it is not an efficient hour of progression and Echo this tier had the same issue 01:30:00.380 --> 01:30:03.140 At least I heard that when they went dark this tier 01:30:03.140 --> 01:30:07.980 They like did not play very well and did not see what they wanted to see and I can relate to that because that has happened to 01:30:07.980 --> 01:30:09.980 Us for before for sure 01:30:10.660 --> 01:30:12.980 So like it's that's another weird thing with it 01:30:12.980 --> 01:30:26.900 Surely there was going dark talk when the secret phase was revealed. Yeah, there was. Bubba was 01:30:26.900 --> 01:30:33.700 like, every single time we hit the secret phase today, we should black out our screens. And we 01:30:33.700 --> 01:30:41.140 were like, does that make the most sense for winning? Yes. Is that the corniest and most lame 01:30:41.140 --> 01:30:49.940 thing of all time. Also, yes. So we probably should not do that. 01:31:01.220 --> 01:31:06.100 Max, when you first hit P4 the first time, the screen was like 0.5 seconds 01:31:06.100 --> 01:31:09.860 dark. Is that what you wanted to go dark and click twice? No, I did 01:31:09.860 --> 01:31:13.940 intentionally have it go dark. And then I was like, we've already shown this phase anyway, 01:31:13.940 --> 01:31:20.020 and then I just unclicked it. Because it was all just happening in real time. I was processing 01:31:20.020 --> 01:31:24.340 that the boss wasn't over at the same time as like our initial plan was if we ever saw a secret 01:31:24.340 --> 01:31:28.180 phase, we would do that. Because like giving away that information is bad, but I was just 01:31:28.180 --> 01:31:33.860 too shocked. And then I just changed my mind. It all it was like a just a quick four second 01:31:33.860 --> 01:31:40.860 think 01:31:47.980 --> 01:31:50.980 max if you could take the top twenty players in the world how many non liquid 01:31:50.980 --> 01:31:52.180 players you think you'd take 01:31:52.180 --> 01:31:53.320 absolutely none 01:31:53.320 --> 01:31:55.780 fucking love everyone this job 01:31:55.780 --> 01:32:01.520 fuck everybody else actually know me all take mirrors 01:32:01.520 --> 01:32:02.560 I'll take that guy real quick. 01:32:02.560 --> 01:32:04.800 Someone in our guild is getting killed for him, 01:32:04.800 --> 01:32:06.580 but I don't know who. 01:32:31.520 --> 01:32:54.800 Some of you guys said Echo had an interesting like post here talk thing and you weren't 01:32:54.800 --> 01:33:00.120 referring to the Skype thing and you mentioned Mira as answering some questions. 01:33:00.120 --> 01:33:09.560 can I find this? Is it a YouTube video? Is it a, is it a Twitch FOD? Was this made up? 01:33:19.480 --> 01:33:24.040 Have you guys been in the spot of losing four times in a row? How tough of a time do they have now? 01:33:24.040 --> 01:33:34.040 I don't think losing races consecutively matters at all like losing a race at all in the short term is just so bad for the next six months that 01:33:34.040 --> 01:33:37.600 How many you've lost or one before that is irrelevant. It's just pure sadness 01:33:38.440 --> 01:33:40.440 At least that's the way I feel about it 01:33:42.320 --> 01:33:45.240 I mean at a certain point it probably starts to add up we've lost 01:33:47.000 --> 01:33:49.000 Three times in a row twice 01:33:49.000 --> 01:33:55.240 So we lost three times in a row when we first started going for the race world first, Old 01:33:55.240 --> 01:33:59.220 Year, Battle of Dzaralor, and Eternal Palace. 01:33:59.220 --> 01:34:02.980 But that didn't really feel that bad because we were just so new to it, and I think looking 01:34:02.980 --> 01:34:06.480 back on it especially, we were kind of out of our depth, you know? 01:34:06.480 --> 01:34:12.960 Like we were trying to beat a guild that's won like 10 plus world first, and we were 01:34:12.960 --> 01:34:16.480 just a bunch of people just figuring it out and I've never done this before, right? 01:34:16.480 --> 01:34:31.480 That kind of was fine. And then we lost from Sylvanas through Razagath, right? 01:34:31.480 --> 01:34:35.480 So we lost Sylvanas, Sepulcher, Razagath before we won again. 01:34:35.480 --> 01:34:45.480 And that one was probably a little harder just because the Sepulcher thing was its own situation 01:34:45.480 --> 01:34:49.540 And then our competition was also like flaming us for that and like making fun of us, which 01:34:49.540 --> 01:34:51.040 kind of sucked. 01:34:51.040 --> 01:34:56.840 And then Razageth, I still don't ever even talk about Razageth. 01:34:56.840 --> 01:35:03.260 It was hard to really even process Razageth honestly, like that, because it didn't really 01:35:03.260 --> 01:35:04.260 feel like a loss. 01:35:04.260 --> 01:35:06.260 It just felt like a thing. 01:35:06.260 --> 01:35:12.040 I don't even know how to put that, but, yeah, but then we went after that, that 01:35:12.040 --> 01:35:14.040 was fun. 01:35:44.040 --> 01:35:51.520 Who has been the hardest player to recruit for you? 01:35:51.520 --> 01:35:55.800 Well, I guess the proper answer to that would be someone that just still hasn't joined. 01:35:55.800 --> 01:36:00.960 But I don't think there's a lot of people that haven't joined and we just keep reaching 01:36:00.960 --> 01:36:01.960 out to them. 01:36:01.960 --> 01:36:04.680 Actually, Asshine was that player for a long time. 01:36:04.680 --> 01:36:06.960 But then he eventually joined. 01:36:06.960 --> 01:36:10.720 So for people that have actually joined the guild, it was probably Asshine. 01:36:10.720 --> 01:36:21.680 us and Echo tried to recruit that guy probably every single tier since the race started. 01:36:21.680 --> 01:36:33.680 Why was he hard to recruit? I don't know, he just kept saying no, I guess. 01:36:33.680 --> 01:36:55.080 What fight this tier, did you have the most fun progressing? 01:36:55.080 --> 01:37:02.040 The easy answer to that is always the last boss, but I mean, maybe Illyria? 01:37:02.040 --> 01:37:07.200 It was like really short-lived and the boss wasn't hard enough, but I still feel the same 01:37:07.200 --> 01:37:12.560 way that I feel about Gallywix where when you're the guild progressing a boss without 01:37:12.560 --> 01:37:17.640 a dungeon journal, regardless of its difficulty, that's still just really fucking fun. 01:37:17.640 --> 01:37:19.280 You're like changing things constantly. 01:37:19.280 --> 01:37:22.200 There's so many more problems to solve in real time, and it's just really fun 01:37:22.200 --> 01:37:24.200 for like everyone. 01:37:24.200 --> 01:37:41.400 It seems like Alieria is going to be pretty hard for human guilds. 01:37:41.400 --> 01:37:43.200 You guys made it look so easy. 01:37:43.200 --> 01:37:46.200 I mean, it should. 01:37:46.200 --> 01:37:47.200 I mean, what is it? 01:37:47.200 --> 01:37:52.240 Is there still this prog stats.io or is that, is that even a thing they even have enough 01:37:52.240 --> 01:38:01.840 data to do this yet? Yeah, Crown of the Cosmos. Typical pull count, 41 to 86. Typical progression 01:38:01.840 --> 01:38:11.240 time, 5 to 8 hours. And how much did we do it in? We did it in like 32, and that was 01:38:11.240 --> 01:38:13.960 something around 36 maybe, and that's right around, 01:38:20.600 --> 01:38:22.680 that's like with learning the fight and everything, which 01:38:22.680 --> 01:38:24.880 obviously added a bunch of polls. And then I think Echo did it 01:38:24.880 --> 01:38:25.480 in 20. 01:38:28.920 --> 01:38:30.400 But it looks like other guilds are doing that and 01:38:30.400 --> 01:38:31.520 significantly more. 01:38:36.800 --> 01:38:38.880 Then so it's actually interesting if you order the 01:38:38.880 --> 01:38:45.540 tier from like basically Chimeris is like the second or third boss and then it's like 01:38:45.540 --> 01:38:51.580 light blinded Vanguard is the sixth boss, Crown of the Cosmos is the seventh, Balloran is 01:38:51.580 --> 01:38:56.880 the eighth, eighth and then the Midnight Falls is the ninth which is weird because Crown 01:38:56.880 --> 01:39:01.840 of the Cosmos was supposed to be the eighth but if you don't put it there, the pull 01:39:01.840 --> 01:39:08.160 counts seem normal if you look at this as just an entire raid. 01:39:08.160 --> 01:39:11.000 Look at these typical pull gowns for regular guilds, right? 01:39:11.000 --> 01:39:13.720 It's like super easy first boss, super easy voracious. 01:39:14.640 --> 01:39:16.240 Fallen King, slightly harder. 01:39:16.240 --> 01:39:17.960 Vailgor, slightly harder. 01:39:17.960 --> 01:39:20.840 Light Blinded Vanguard, twice as hard as that. 01:39:20.840 --> 01:39:25.000 Crown of the Cosmos, still like more pulls than that. 01:39:25.000 --> 01:39:30.000 And then Beloran is like a huge jump in pulls 01:39:32.480 --> 01:39:34.120 and then Midnight Falls is another. 01:39:34.120 --> 01:39:36.640 It actually ends up having the difficulty curve 01:39:36.640 --> 01:39:38.840 of a regular race. 01:39:48.620 --> 01:39:51.300 How much of a skill gap do you think there is actually 01:39:51.300 --> 01:39:53.420 between the guilds given how tight of a margin 01:39:53.420 --> 01:39:55.200 Dimmy was and a lesser extent Lura 01:39:55.200 --> 01:39:57.840 between what guilds, all guilds, top guilds? 01:40:02.180 --> 01:40:03.980 Max, is that YouTube video you were looking for 01:40:03.980 --> 01:40:05.340 with Mirrors and Stripe, a look at 01:40:05.340 --> 01:40:06.820 Echo's raced world first preparation, 01:40:06.820 --> 01:40:08.980 how pros get ready raced world first for dummies? 01:40:08.980 --> 01:40:10.620 Nah, I mean, I have no idea. 01:40:10.620 --> 01:40:12.660 I was just basically basing that off 01:40:12.660 --> 01:40:14.460 of what some people in chat were saying. 01:40:17.620 --> 01:40:19.320 Between awesome Echo. 01:40:20.420 --> 01:40:22.620 Oh yeah, it seems pretty close. 01:40:22.620 --> 01:40:23.820 See what feels the same. 01:40:25.940 --> 01:40:28.060 There were things that I think we definitely did 01:40:28.060 --> 01:40:29.860 that lost a decent amount of time, 01:40:29.860 --> 01:40:31.620 but that's true like every tier, 01:40:31.620 --> 01:40:33.300 like it's hindsight rate. 01:40:33.300 --> 01:40:35.260 And I bet Echo would say the same thing I assume. 01:40:35.260 --> 01:40:37.940 I'm not sure. 01:40:37.940 --> 01:40:40.100 Like last year, we lost an insane amount of time 01:40:40.100 --> 01:40:40.820 on Fractalist. 01:40:40.820 --> 01:40:42.260 This year, we definitely lost time 01:40:42.260 --> 01:40:46.020 due to a variety of things. 01:40:46.020 --> 01:40:47.780 Like I don't know if it's the situation where 01:40:47.780 --> 01:40:49.580 we felt like we messed up and lost a lot of time 01:40:49.580 --> 01:40:51.300 and Echo felt like they played perfectly, 01:40:51.300 --> 01:40:52.820 but I strongly doubt that. 01:40:52.820 --> 01:40:55.460 I imagine that they also felt like that they lost some time 01:40:55.460 --> 01:40:56.660 doing some things inefficiently. 01:40:56.660 --> 01:41:00.340 And if that's the case, that would be true of both guilds 01:41:00.340 --> 01:41:02.140 and ended up being pretty close, right? 01:41:05.260 --> 01:41:34.260 Max, do you think ECHO's philosophy is 01:41:34.260 --> 01:41:36.980 Do you think Echo's philosophy on sleep has been hurting them at all? 01:41:36.980 --> 01:41:40.940 They only took like five hours of sleep on the night before the boss died? 01:41:40.940 --> 01:41:44.100 It's really hard for me to answer that question because I think guilds react differently to 01:41:44.100 --> 01:41:45.100 sleep maybe. 01:41:45.100 --> 01:41:47.100 Like I'll give you an example. 01:41:47.100 --> 01:41:53.380 If we lost the race and it was midnight and we had a vote to go to bed or to stay 01:41:53.380 --> 01:41:57.060 up, all 20 people would vote to go to bed. 01:41:57.060 --> 01:42:00.380 And if I said no, they would kill me in real life. 01:42:00.380 --> 01:42:05.140 And then Ekko had that happen to them this tier and last tier, and in both scenarios the 01:42:05.140 --> 01:42:08.900 players voted to keep going late into the night to kill it. 01:42:08.900 --> 01:42:13.100 Which means that like EU people just don't need as much sleep or something because that 01:42:13.100 --> 01:42:17.300 is just such a stark difference to me. 01:42:17.300 --> 01:42:23.660 And then there's another thing where like when we woke up, so we stayed up till 2 01:42:23.660 --> 01:42:27.580 AM the night before we won, trying to kill the boss. 01:42:27.580 --> 01:42:30.100 And then we felt like when we went to sleep we were going to lose. 01:42:30.100 --> 01:42:37.700 And then we did, and we went to sleep, and we slept, there was nine hours in between 01:42:37.700 --> 01:42:43.460 our raids, was the idea, which is less than the normal 10 hours in between our raids. 01:42:43.460 --> 01:42:48.260 So we slept one less hour than normal, but we still got eight hours or tried to get 01:42:48.260 --> 01:42:51.220 eight hours of sleep, because we felt that even in the scenario where we're still 01:42:51.220 --> 01:42:56.540 trying to win, we need more sleep than sleeping four or five hours. 01:42:56.540 --> 01:43:00.860 We learned this lesson on Sarkarith where like if you sleep like four or five hours, 01:43:00.860 --> 01:43:03.980 people actually end up sleeping less than that in general. 01:43:03.980 --> 01:43:08.540 And if you don't kill the boss in the first couple hours when you wake up, you just lose. 01:43:08.540 --> 01:43:11.620 You just straight lose. 01:43:11.620 --> 01:43:14.140 But if they're, I don't actually know if what you said is true. 01:43:14.140 --> 01:43:17.220 I don't know if they're choosing to sleep less, but. 01:43:17.220 --> 01:43:21.700 So what happens when you are low on sleep in a race situation is you don't actually 01:43:21.700 --> 01:43:27.020 play that much worse for the first like x hours of the day, like four hours, six 01:43:27.020 --> 01:43:31.100 hours, eight hours, something like that. But when it starts getting like late at 01:43:31.100 --> 01:43:37.340 night, that is when low sleep starts to affect you. And both an argument for 01:43:37.340 --> 01:43:40.700 sleep hurting them if they slept less than us, which I believe is true, although 01:43:40.700 --> 01:43:45.620 I don't want to say that because like I haven't actually looked at myself. If 01:43:45.620 --> 01:43:49.940 they were not playing as well in at the end of the night, which was kind 01:43:49.940 --> 01:43:53.460 And at least relative to us was true on both the day we killed it and the day before. 01:43:53.460 --> 01:43:57.180 I could see lower sleep absolutely being a factor, because that is kind of exactly what 01:43:57.180 --> 01:44:04.300 happens to you when you sleep less. 01:44:04.300 --> 01:44:05.300 What is it? 01:44:05.300 --> 01:44:10.980 They still had around eight hours off in between, so yeah, so one less hour even than that. 01:44:10.980 --> 01:44:15.020 And normally the guilds do like 10 hours in between raids. 01:44:15.020 --> 01:44:18.380 Obviously it takes you about an hour to go back to your hotel and like really sleep, 01:44:18.380 --> 01:44:19.860 so that's seven hours of sleep. 01:44:19.860 --> 01:44:21.520 And that's assuming you're waking up right at raid time. 01:44:21.520 --> 01:44:23.900 You wake up an hour earlier, so that's six hours of sleep. 01:44:23.900 --> 01:44:25.980 Plus, it's in the back of their mind 01:44:25.980 --> 01:44:27.700 that we could kill the boss in the secret phase 01:44:27.700 --> 01:44:28.780 before they wake up. 01:44:28.780 --> 01:44:30.620 And that's something that absolutely affects us 01:44:30.620 --> 01:44:32.860 and affects them and hurts your sleep as well. 01:44:32.860 --> 01:44:35.020 And I find it really hard to sleep in those situations. 01:44:35.020 --> 01:44:37.420 So you're even getting less sleep than that. 01:44:37.420 --> 01:44:38.460 That's why it's so hard. 01:44:38.460 --> 01:44:39.860 And like, dude, people, but the thing is, 01:44:39.860 --> 01:44:41.580 is like, viewers don't get this. 01:44:43.540 --> 01:44:46.220 Like, people were like adding Aya in her stream 01:44:46.220 --> 01:44:48.500 to like go to the hotel and wake us up hours early 01:44:48.500 --> 01:44:49.340 because they're like, 01:44:49.340 --> 01:44:53.500 It's like dude, you just don't get it like if we were to wake up hours early just because they're close 01:44:53.500 --> 01:44:57.100 We would have no chance of killing the boss. That's not how this works. Like you need sleep 01:44:58.140 --> 01:45:03.660 To do this but like viewers don't understand that they don't understand breaks and they don't understand sleep breaks are insanely OP 01:45:03.900 --> 01:45:08.020 Yes, they're a little scary to take when another guild is actively pulling and could kill the boss 01:45:08.460 --> 01:45:10.060 But you just have to do it 01:45:10.060 --> 01:45:14.900 You can't just play all day and not take a break because that could happen your poles doom spiral and you have no chance 01:45:14.900 --> 01:45:16.900 It's but viewers just don't really get it 01:45:19.340 --> 01:45:40.200 Does your group go to their hotels and pull up Echo Streams, or is that banned? 01:45:40.200 --> 01:45:44.720 You can't really ban anyone from not watching anything on their phone when they—we used 01:45:44.720 --> 01:45:48.080 to like ban going on Twitter during the race, but sometimes people just like to decompress. 01:45:51.360 --> 01:45:57.200 But yeah, we strongly suggest that they don't do that. That's like common. It's like a rookie 01:45:57.200 --> 01:46:01.520 mistake. Someone does the race for the first time, and then they go home, or they go back to 01:46:01.520 --> 01:46:07.040 the hotel, and then they like just start watching like replays of our kills, or like the best 01:46:07.040 --> 01:46:11.440 thing you can do when the race is over is to fully decompress and just go to sleep as fast 01:46:11.440 --> 01:46:16.400 as possible. It's so much better than the next best thing, but it is very hard to do that when 01:46:16.400 --> 01:46:20.400 you're excited. So it's actually one of the reasons why killing a boss at the end of your raid time 01:46:21.440 --> 01:46:26.960 is one of the biggest give and take things like a hard boss. 01:46:29.520 --> 01:46:34.240 Because like, yes, you are your morale is up. Everyone's happy. You're going to go to sleep 01:46:35.440 --> 01:46:40.560 and you're going to wake up the next day, whatever. But like, whether you kill it that 01:46:40.560 --> 01:46:43.920 night or not you're gonna wake up the next day with the other guild having 01:46:43.920 --> 01:46:47.800 also killed it and seen a little farther than you and killing any boss that 01:46:47.800 --> 01:46:52.080 isn't the last boss first means nothing but what does happen when you kill a boss 01:46:52.080 --> 01:46:56.520 near the end of a day is people's adrenaline ramps up and we all find it 01:46:56.520 --> 01:46:59.680 very hard to go to sleep if we normally end our raid at midnight and expect 01:46:59.680 --> 01:47:03.320 everyone to be asleep by one people are not asleep by one if we kill the boss 01:47:03.320 --> 01:47:06.960 at midnight no fucking way like way later than that because they're just 01:47:06.960 --> 01:47:10.600 excited. And I think that lost hour of sleep. I don't know if 01:47:10.600 --> 01:47:12.520 it's ever not because you're never going to actually make a 01:47:12.520 --> 01:47:14.540 decision like this. Like, hey, let's not kill it because that 01:47:14.540 --> 01:47:16.160 would be bad. We'll lose sleep. Like, obviously, you're going to 01:47:16.160 --> 01:47:19.320 try to kill it within your raid time. But like, I don't know if 01:47:19.320 --> 01:47:19.880 it's actually good. 01:47:26.320 --> 01:47:28.600 Echo did that on tendril. No, echo did something completely 01:47:28.600 --> 01:47:31.240 different on tendril. That is a decision that I will never 01:47:31.240 --> 01:47:34.480 understand echo doing what they did on tendril is one of 01:47:34.480 --> 01:47:37.720 the most nonsensical things I've ever seen a guild do. 01:47:37.720 --> 01:47:40.200 I cannot understand why they chose to do that. 01:47:40.200 --> 01:47:42.160 Like everything that we know about the race, 01:47:42.160 --> 01:47:44.960 that is like the worst decision you could ever make. 01:47:47.280 --> 01:47:49.320 I don't know if it was like ego or whatever, 01:47:49.320 --> 01:47:51.680 but what do they do on Tindral? 01:47:51.680 --> 01:47:53.720 Okay, so remember how I told you 01:47:53.720 --> 01:47:55.160 that like basically the only thing that matters 01:47:55.160 --> 01:47:57.360 is like killing the last boss first? 01:47:57.360 --> 01:48:01.800 On Tindral, their raid time came and went 01:48:01.800 --> 01:48:03.200 and they didn't have Tindral did, 01:48:03.200 --> 01:48:10.600 But I'm guessing it was an ego thing because we killed Tindral at the end of our previous day, and we were already on Firehack. 01:48:11.160 --> 01:48:17.160 And they usually use that as a bar of what they need to do or better, right? Because they also have information. 01:48:17.640 --> 01:48:24.680 So it really feels bad to go to bed and not have done what we'd done on the previous day. It's going to be a morale hit. 01:48:24.680 --> 01:48:28.720 So they basically chose to stay up, I don't know how late, 01:48:28.720 --> 01:48:31.520 but I feel like they played for almost close to 20 hours. 01:48:31.520 --> 01:48:33.520 They raided four hours after raid time 01:48:33.520 --> 01:48:35.560 just to kill a boss that wasn't the end boss. 01:48:35.560 --> 01:48:39.800 Why this is a mistake is you can 01:48:40.680 --> 01:48:42.680 tendrils an insanely hard boss, right? 01:48:42.680 --> 01:48:44.080 And on any insanely hard boss, 01:48:44.080 --> 01:48:45.720 you play way better right after you wake up 01:48:45.720 --> 01:48:46.760 than when you're at the end of your day. 01:48:46.760 --> 01:48:49.260 It's like so much better. 01:48:50.520 --> 01:48:52.560 So what you do is you wake up the next day, 01:48:52.560 --> 01:48:54.400 let's say it took them four hours to kill it at night. 01:48:54.400 --> 01:48:57.240 it would probably take half that or less in the morning. 01:48:57.240 --> 01:49:00.380 Overall saving you time and keeping your circadian rhythm 01:49:00.380 --> 01:49:04.240 at the same point, which is very important. 01:49:04.240 --> 01:49:05.600 But they chose to do that. 01:49:05.600 --> 01:49:09.840 And yeah, I just think, I don't know exactly how they reviewed 01:49:09.840 --> 01:49:11.280 that in their guild after the raid, 01:49:11.280 --> 01:49:13.560 but I can't imagine they viewed that positively. 01:49:13.560 --> 01:49:14.880 I think that was a huge mistake. 01:49:21.400 --> 01:49:23.240 What was crazier, Echo on Tendril or Method 01:49:23.240 --> 01:49:24.200 on Silkencourt? 01:49:24.200 --> 01:49:25.320 Well, those are two separate things. 01:49:25.320 --> 01:49:28.840 So Method on Silkencourt was trying to kill the boss 01:49:28.840 --> 01:49:29.840 before the reset. 01:49:29.840 --> 01:49:32.060 So they got an extra item in their vault. 01:49:34.240 --> 01:49:36.240 And that actually made sense. 01:49:36.240 --> 01:49:37.960 Like they literally got an extra boss, 01:49:37.960 --> 01:49:39.560 mythic boss of loot by doing it. 01:49:39.560 --> 01:49:40.480 Echo did not do that. 01:49:40.480 --> 01:49:43.880 This was, they did not, none of those things applied, right? 01:49:45.480 --> 01:49:48.480 But also, I think Method was a mistake too. 01:49:48.480 --> 01:49:51.480 Even killing it, there was obviously a risk 01:49:51.480 --> 01:49:53.200 of them not killing it. 01:49:53.200 --> 01:49:56.080 And then it would have been just one of the worst decisions ever. 01:49:56.080 --> 01:49:58.400 But even with killing it, I think it was a mistake. 01:49:58.400 --> 01:50:00.480 There's no way fucking your sleep like that 01:50:00.480 --> 01:50:02.440 is worth whatever you were getting out of it. 01:50:20.000 --> 01:50:21.720 Always fascinating to hear about how the race is 01:50:21.720 --> 01:50:22.640 in endurance sport. 01:50:22.640 --> 01:50:24.080 Exactly, yeah. 01:50:24.080 --> 01:50:25.180 Often misunderstood. 01:50:29.480 --> 01:50:33.840 Did you see Jinji comment and say you cried about Razigith? 01:50:33.840 --> 01:50:34.680 Oh well, okay. 01:50:34.680 --> 01:50:38.520 So first of all, I don't even know if you're saying that 01:50:38.520 --> 01:50:40.080 or not, but I could certainly imagine Jinji 01:50:40.080 --> 01:50:40.920 saying something like that. 01:50:40.920 --> 01:50:42.080 So let's just assume that's true. 01:50:42.080 --> 01:50:42.920 Yeah. 01:50:45.000 --> 01:50:47.360 Yes, it turns out when a boss was nerfed and killed 01:50:47.360 --> 01:50:51.120 while we were asleep, if crying just means complaining, 01:50:51.120 --> 01:50:54.920 We definitely complained about that 100p. 01:50:54.920 --> 01:50:56.800 Like, 100 fucking p. 01:50:56.800 --> 01:50:59.600 I'm complaining about it to this day. 01:50:59.600 --> 01:51:00.960 Feel like that's pretty valid. 01:51:15.440 --> 01:51:16.320 Hey, buddy. 01:51:16.320 --> 01:51:17.400 What a cute dog. 01:51:17.400 --> 01:51:18.560 Big husky. 01:51:18.560 --> 01:51:20.760 Hey, little dude. 01:51:20.760 --> 01:51:23.180 Can y'all see the dog on camera here? 01:51:23.180 --> 01:51:24.100 Everybody, hey. 01:51:25.320 --> 01:51:26.160 I don't know whose dog this is. 01:51:26.160 --> 01:51:28.360 I've never seen this husky before. 01:51:28.360 --> 01:51:29.800 Come here, little homie. 01:51:29.800 --> 01:51:30.640 Hey. 01:51:36.440 --> 01:51:37.800 Hey, little dog. 01:51:37.800 --> 01:51:38.840 He's so fluffy. 01:51:44.080 --> 01:51:45.040 Fluffy dog. 01:51:50.760 --> 01:52:07.440 It's hard to find a proper time to nerf a boss without giving any region a kind of advantage. 01:52:07.440 --> 01:52:10.320 Correct, yeah. 01:52:10.320 --> 01:52:13.440 All you can kind of do is if you're nerfing a part of the fight that both guilds have 01:52:13.440 --> 01:52:14.760 seen in okay mana times. 01:52:14.760 --> 01:52:20.900 Let's just say you've nerfed P2 of a boss and both guilds have seen P2 15 times 01:52:21.540 --> 01:52:24.120 If it's still going to take multiple days for the boss to die 01:52:24.120 --> 01:52:28.080 As long as it's true that both guilds have been about on it a certain amount of time 01:52:28.080 --> 01:52:31.240 That would be good. Like for example imagine if on tendril 01:52:31.960 --> 01:52:33.680 we were like 01:52:33.680 --> 01:52:38.120 have had 50 more polls on P2 seeds and we're doing them really well and 01:52:38.960 --> 01:52:43.620 Method just got to the boss, but then they nerfed P1 and P2 that would negatively affect us 01:52:43.620 --> 01:52:49.280 They try and I think to their credit do a really good job of making sure that never happens where they nerf a boss 01:52:51.300 --> 01:52:58.340 Significantly enough to where if a guild is getting there behind they now can catch up in progress because the other guild had to learn a like version of the 01:52:58.340 --> 01:53:00.340 phase it wasn't there 01:53:01.460 --> 01:53:03.460 But yeah as far as timing 01:53:04.340 --> 01:53:05.720 I 01:53:05.720 --> 01:53:09.320 Know EU views it as us getting these nerves at the start of the day 01:53:09.320 --> 01:53:15.720 It's like bad for them because they're getting it when they go to bed, which I mean I could see that I can certainly see being in 01:53:15.720 --> 01:53:21.160 That scenario and being tilted about it, but that's also just they've there is no real time 01:53:21.160 --> 01:53:22.640 I don't know if they could pick a better time than that 01:53:22.640 --> 01:53:26.960 I don't know if there is a time actually where everyone is happy though because it's kind of the inverse of that or 01:53:27.560 --> 01:53:28.720 It is 01:53:28.720 --> 01:53:33.920 Then I guess one thing you could do is try to just be consistent and just try to make it known that basic 01:53:33.920 --> 01:53:37.080 So every guild can plan around it like hey if we're ever going to change one of these bosses 01:53:37.080 --> 01:53:39.080 It's going to be at this time or something 01:53:39.320 --> 01:53:40.320 Not sure. 01:53:49.320 --> 01:53:52.320 Did you guys complain to Blizzard at all about the Raznerf? 01:53:55.320 --> 01:54:01.320 I mean, maybe. All I remember is like normally after tiers, we have like a interview with the devs. 01:54:01.320 --> 01:54:04.320 It's not public or anything. It's not like super secret or anything. 01:54:04.320 --> 01:54:09.680 secret or anything it's just like usually they just talk with each of the guilds with some of the fight designers about how some things 01:54:09.680 --> 01:54:12.600 When and like ways for them to improve and them to ask us some questions and stuff 01:54:13.320 --> 01:54:16.740 And we declined at that time and like they did some 01:54:17.440 --> 01:54:21.780 Rationalizing of the nerf basically without us having said anything and I'm pretty sure we just never responded to them 01:54:21.780 --> 01:54:23.780 Maybe we're just over it 01:54:24.520 --> 01:54:27.040 Because nothing was gonna come out of that and we were pretty tilted 01:54:34.320 --> 01:54:46.760 It's a six to eight hours notice just in case a guild wants to rest before the nerfs. 01:54:46.760 --> 01:54:52.040 Yeah, but I mean, giving a six to eight hour notice versus just doing it is like kind of 01:54:52.040 --> 01:54:55.840 the same thing though, because you're not going to ever choose to go to sleep. 01:54:55.840 --> 01:54:56.840 You're not going to sleep in that. 01:54:56.840 --> 01:54:59.000 You can't like sleep an hour early or two hours early. 01:54:59.000 --> 01:55:03.160 People don't go to bed because they're used to going to bed at a certain time. 01:55:03.160 --> 01:55:08.240 basically in a tough position. I'm sure some nerf timings for NA and EU could always be 01:55:08.240 --> 01:55:11.800 pushed in a slightly different way to not fever one of the teams as much or something, but 01:55:11.800 --> 01:55:15.800 I mean they pretty much do them at the same time. And at least for the past couple tiers, 01:55:15.800 --> 01:55:20.320 they've done it without, I can't speak about method, but at least for Echo and Liquid, 01:55:20.320 --> 01:55:23.920 they do it usually when the guilds have had almost the exact same pulls on the 01:55:23.920 --> 01:55:29.000 boss. So it, I think that's probably the closest thing they can do to make 01:55:29.000 --> 01:55:36.000 sure that like one team wasn't affected more by the nerf than others. 01:55:36.000 --> 01:55:51.400 I'd love to see you radiating echoes right now. 01:55:51.400 --> 01:55:54.600 Any tricks to falling asleep before a big day? 01:55:54.600 --> 01:55:57.940 I just take like a probably illegal amount of sleep medication. 01:56:09.380 --> 01:56:13.500 Do you consider extending on Gahoon limits biggest mistake? 01:56:13.500 --> 01:56:16.940 I think our biggest mistake was not doing enough splits 01:56:16.940 --> 01:56:20.860 in sanctum of domination, specifically. 01:56:20.860 --> 01:56:23.140 Because that one, you could have made a better decision 01:56:23.140 --> 01:56:24.140 without hindsight. 01:56:24.140 --> 01:56:29.140 The extend decision in Oldier was made without information 01:56:29.420 --> 01:56:30.180 that was needed. 01:56:30.180 --> 01:56:33.460 So they nerfed FETA Devourer on the Reclear, 01:56:33.460 --> 01:56:35.780 which is we felt like the loot from the bosses 01:56:35.780 --> 01:56:37.140 would not be worth the amount of time 01:56:37.140 --> 01:56:39.420 it would take to Reclear FETA Devourer. 01:56:39.420 --> 01:56:41.360 But it turns out that they had nerfed FETA Devourer 01:56:41.360 --> 01:56:42.200 on the reset, 01:56:42.200 --> 01:56:44.120 but just didn't post about it until three hours later. 01:56:44.120 --> 01:56:45.820 So by the time we had already made the decision, 01:56:45.820 --> 01:56:46.660 it was too late. 01:56:46.660 --> 01:56:48.700 And had we had that information, 01:56:48.700 --> 01:56:50.100 we wouldn't have extended. 01:56:51.260 --> 01:56:53.420 And if FETA Devourer wasn't nerfed, 01:56:53.420 --> 01:56:59.920 Extending was the right decision so most feted of our or most oldier stuff is hindsight shit saying it's a bad decision 01:56:59.920 --> 01:57:01.920 But I think the sanctum thing was just a bad play 01:57:01.920 --> 01:57:25.660 So, Max, do you think the add-on limitations had an effect on the race in general or the 01:57:25.660 --> 01:57:26.660 guild in particular? 01:57:26.660 --> 01:57:31.360 No, I feel like we actually adapted to that pretty well. 01:57:31.360 --> 01:57:36.880 There's still one thing that add-ons, as far as I know, can't do, right? 01:57:36.880 --> 01:57:37.880 There's like two things. 01:57:37.880 --> 01:57:40.400 So, let's just say there's a mechanic that goes out, it's a debuff. 01:57:40.400 --> 01:57:45.920 Let's say it's this debuff, and like, you need players to go to an exact marker with 01:57:45.920 --> 01:57:46.920 these debuffs. 01:57:46.920 --> 01:57:49.360 I'm not even going to, you guys can probably think of a million mechanics that are just 01:57:49.360 --> 01:57:50.360 like this. 01:57:50.360 --> 01:57:52.120 Breed twister is probably the most recent. 01:57:52.120 --> 01:57:55.680 And it's like, you need a weak aura to tell you to stand on Diamond, and you 01:57:55.680 --> 01:57:58.480 to stand on Triangle, and you to stand on Orange, and you to stand on Star, whatever. 01:57:58.480 --> 01:58:02.500 it's like super precise and you have to be on those exact markers and it needs a backup 01:58:02.500 --> 01:58:08.940 list and it dynamically assigns things. You cannot do this. And maybe unsurprisingly, 01:58:08.940 --> 01:58:12.380 they didn't really make any mechanics that require you to do this. Now there's another 01:58:12.380 --> 01:58:18.340 mechanic that is like this as well. Another mechanic would be like, let's say there's 01:58:18.340 --> 01:58:27.100 four soaks, right? There's four soaks and you need five players in each soak. And 01:58:27.100 --> 01:58:30.420 Let's say you assign people within each soak. 01:58:30.420 --> 01:58:32.380 Let's say everyone's a range DPS 01:58:32.380 --> 01:58:35.980 and there's one healer in all of them. 01:58:43.780 --> 01:58:47.180 But let's say these three people get picked 01:58:47.180 --> 01:58:49.220 with the actual mechanic. 01:58:49.220 --> 01:58:51.420 So naturally this person has to go here, 01:58:51.420 --> 01:58:52.380 this person has to go here, 01:58:52.380 --> 01:58:53.580 this person has to go here 01:58:53.580 --> 01:58:55.300 and this person also got picked with this. 01:58:55.300 --> 01:58:57.520 But now, oops, these people are gonna die to this soak 01:58:57.520 --> 01:58:58.520 because there's not enough people in it. 01:58:58.520 --> 01:59:00.640 So you have a dynamic backup list 01:59:00.640 --> 01:59:03.440 that tells this person to soak over here, 01:59:03.440 --> 01:59:04.860 tells this person to soak over here 01:59:04.860 --> 01:59:06.920 and tells this person to back up soak over here 01:59:06.920 --> 01:59:08.320 so you never have any wipes. 01:59:08.320 --> 01:59:10.640 It's like a dynamic assigned list. 01:59:10.640 --> 01:59:12.640 This you cannot really do anymore. 01:59:12.640 --> 01:59:14.680 But as I'm sure a few of you guys 01:59:14.680 --> 01:59:16.240 are recognizing right now, 01:59:16.240 --> 01:59:18.080 Blizzard has been really smart 01:59:18.080 --> 01:59:19.720 with how they create these mechanics now 01:59:19.720 --> 01:59:21.280 to where you no longer need this. 01:59:21.280 --> 01:59:24.680 Prime example, Midnight Falls in P2. 01:59:25.300 --> 01:59:33.180 So Midnight Falls has a P2 mechanic, okay, where basically there are four soaks. 01:59:33.180 --> 01:59:38.740 It's almost exactly, almost identical to what you guys were just looking at on that screen. 01:59:40.060 --> 01:59:45.500 Okay, there's a right before this happens. There is a soak, these four lines. 01:59:45.500 --> 01:59:50.940 This is a four-person soak. Normally this could pick anyone, but the smart thing Blizzard did is 01:59:51.700 --> 01:59:54.380 this line can only pick a tank. 01:59:55.300 --> 01:59:58.740 This line can only pick a melee. 01:59:58.740 --> 02:00:00.460 Or, I mean, well, it's not necessarily that line. 02:00:00.460 --> 02:00:01.900 But basically, between the four things, 02:00:01.900 --> 02:00:03.620 one picks a ranged DPS, one picks a melee, 02:00:03.620 --> 02:00:05.380 one picks a tank, one picks a healer. 02:00:05.380 --> 02:00:07.180 This makes you able to dynamically assign it. 02:00:07.180 --> 02:00:08.780 And they did another smart thing. 02:00:08.780 --> 02:00:11.900 They made it so seeds can't be picked with this mechanic. 02:00:11.900 --> 02:00:16.820 So when you look at our setup for this, 02:00:16.820 --> 02:00:18.820 one second, let me pull up a spreadsheet 02:00:18.820 --> 02:00:20.420 to show you how we assigned it. 02:00:25.300 --> 02:00:53.900 Alright, so how we set this up is based on our RAID comp, take a picture of this. 02:00:53.900 --> 02:01:01.480 So based on our raid comp we made it so we ran a certain amount of melee to where we didn't have 5 melee, so we put 1 ranged in this soak every time. 02:01:01.980 --> 02:01:13.280 Now if KSP didn't have a crystal, he could get picked with the ranged thing, so now he would have to learn how to go to Skull and then you'd need to assign a backup system for someone over here to actually take his place in the melee camp. 02:01:13.280 --> 02:01:18.940 But the way we set it up is we put a player with a crystal in the healer camp, a player 02:01:18.940 --> 02:01:24.020 with a crystal in the melee camp, and then three ranged all with crystals in the tank 02:01:24.020 --> 02:01:25.020 camp. 02:01:25.020 --> 02:01:28.800 So now it's impossible for anyone but a tank to get picked with this line. 02:01:28.800 --> 02:01:31.620 It's impossible for anyone but a healer to get picked with this line. 02:01:31.620 --> 02:01:36.740 It is impossible for anyone but a melee to get picked with this line because we 02:01:36.740 --> 02:01:42.100 did the specific spreads that we did and we locked them out of getting the mechanic. 02:01:42.100 --> 02:01:46.580 I'm sure did this intentionally because they also did this on Demensius and they also did this on 02:01:48.100 --> 02:01:50.100 They also did this on 02:01:50.220 --> 02:01:53.720 Whatever the boss was light-blinded vanguards. I think is the name 02:01:55.780 --> 02:02:01.520 When we did light-blinded vanguards assignments, I'm sure let me see if I can if that's even still on this fucking sheet 02:02:06.060 --> 02:02:10.780 Where the fuck is the vanguards thing that's feels so long ago 02:02:12.100 --> 02:02:19.220 Yeah, I don't think it's going to be here. 02:02:19.220 --> 02:02:20.220 Maybe it is. 02:02:20.220 --> 02:02:23.420 Yeah, no, it's not. 02:02:23.420 --> 02:02:34.580 But yeah, that boss had four soaks, right, on light-blinded vanguards. 02:02:34.580 --> 02:02:37.460 And a healer got every single one. 02:02:37.460 --> 02:02:39.380 So they just made it, so there's multiple ways to do this. 02:02:39.380 --> 02:02:44.540 had basically the exact same thing on Vanguard, where a mechanic like this last expansion before 02:02:44.540 --> 02:02:47.820 to the Mencius tier, it would have gone on a random player, but they knew that you would 02:02:47.820 --> 02:02:52.020 have at least four healers in the raid. So they put them all on healers. So the only 02:02:52.020 --> 02:02:55.180 the assignments are static for everyone in the raid, except for healers. Now you did 02:02:55.180 --> 02:02:59.980 five healers boss, which was interesting. So Driny had to like learn where the four 02:02:59.980 --> 02:03:03.860 spots was. And if Zevi ever didn't have it, he knew to go like back left or something 02:03:03.860 --> 02:03:08.660 like that, but that's like a little complicated, but yeah, not not needed for a week or a. 02:03:23.700 --> 02:03:27.700 Next, has there ever been a boss where you thought after killing it that you totally missed a potential 02:03:27.700 --> 02:03:31.700 strategy, even if you cleared it? Have you ever felt in hindsight that you did a boss on a 02:03:31.700 --> 02:03:37.860 self-imposed hard mode? Oh yeah, actually literally, I explained this earlier, but on Lura, I'm not 02:03:37.860 --> 02:03:41.940 going to do it again, but you can rewind the stream, but basically there was a way to make the 02:03:41.940 --> 02:03:49.940 P3 damage check 10 seconds easier. As well as I have a better P1 strat as well for midnight 02:03:49.940 --> 02:03:55.700 falls as well, involving the crystals. And it's putting difficulty in a slightly different 02:03:55.700 --> 02:03:59.620 place, but basically what you do is you make it so the mark people, the people who have 02:03:59.620 --> 02:04:06.820 the five marks never have to like do the crystal drop thing where they like the beam is coming to 02:04:06.820 --> 02:04:11.140 them and then they like drop the crystal and move off of it and then pick it up again. You can uh I 02:04:11.140 --> 02:04:16.900 came up with a strat where you basically just do a pixel stack drop of the crystals and basically 02:04:16.900 --> 02:04:22.340 you just pick up the crystal afterwards if you don't get assigned with a mark uh except for one 02:04:22.340 --> 02:04:26.820 player that you just have learned how to do it and then the this is by the way the number 02:04:26.820 --> 02:04:31.200 one biggest wipe condition of this fight is a seed player doing this incorrectly. 02:04:31.200 --> 02:04:51.820 Doing the memory game with the seeds is very hard and you can completely remove it. 02:04:51.820 --> 02:04:54.900 Max, who came up with the Windwalker Cook on the bird boss? 02:04:54.900 --> 02:04:56.700 Bubba and Lummel. 02:04:56.700 --> 02:05:00.860 Have you tried the raid planer raidstrats.gg? 02:05:00.860 --> 02:05:02.420 No, I had someone link me on this race, though. 02:05:02.420 --> 02:05:03.420 It looks pretty clean. 02:05:21.820 --> 02:05:28.820 Max, can you quickly explain how crystals getting damage spawn soaks? 02:05:28.820 --> 02:05:34.380 Sure, if you have the crystal on your body, like you're holding it, and you get hit with 02:05:34.380 --> 02:05:39.060 any cosmic damage, it spawns two soaks that if not soaked will instantly kill everyone. 02:05:39.060 --> 02:05:41.260 That's how it works. 02:05:41.260 --> 02:05:45.260 The alternative to that is, if the seed is ever on the ground and it gets hit by 02:05:45.260 --> 02:05:48.380 cosmic damage, it just instantly blows up everyone in the raid. 02:05:48.380 --> 02:05:50.500 There's two potential things where that can happen. 02:05:50.500 --> 02:05:59.800 I guess there's also a third. If you never heal up the crystal initially, it will just kill the raid, but that's not that's like after the first couple pulls that doesn't happen. 02:06:06.940 --> 02:06:13.820 Were there any console just for the last bosses that you were considering outside of bear? Yeah, we considered disc priest. We considered swapping out rogue for another on Holy UK. 02:06:16.380 --> 02:06:18.580 Max, how do you handle the kicks without week or is 02:06:18.580 --> 02:06:22.580 A few of our players were doing it without any kind of help. 02:06:22.580 --> 02:06:25.580 I think Fired Up was one of them. I can show you that. 02:06:32.580 --> 02:06:40.580 Okay, so how Fired Up did the kicks is, he was on boss frame 2, 02:06:40.580 --> 02:06:42.580 so let me just show you the pull. 02:06:42.580 --> 02:06:46.580 So the boss spawns these crystals, 3, 2, 1, and I'm going to pause it. 02:06:46.580 --> 02:06:52.740 it. You see his mouse. He's going to use his mouse. He's going to focus. He just has a macro to focus 02:06:52.740 --> 02:06:59.220 boss frame two. And he knows he's kick. I think it's like four. I think it's kick four. So when 02:06:59.220 --> 02:07:02.900 these things spawn, they spawn with five stacks. And every time they're kicked, they're removing 02:07:02.900 --> 02:07:08.820 a stack. So he knows that if he's kick four, he needs to kick when this thing has two stacks 02:07:08.820 --> 02:07:15.980 left, right? So what he does is he focuses this and then he has his focus frame right 02:07:15.980 --> 02:07:20.940 here. Okay, so now you're going to see it casting, it gets kicked the first time, it 02:07:20.940 --> 02:07:26.620 gets kicked the second time, it gets kicked the third time, and then now it's his kick, 02:07:26.620 --> 02:07:29.780 he's known three casts have gone off and he doesn't have to count the casts, he 02:07:29.780 --> 02:07:35.900 knows because it has two stacks of the thing. And then now he just has a macro 02:07:35.900 --> 02:07:44.360 counter strike holy shit to counter spell his focus when it hits two stacks so now the thing 02:07:44.360 --> 02:07:50.500 casts he uses his counter spell and then he kicks it. 02:07:50.500 --> 02:07:58.260 This is done fully default UI, zero, zero additions whatsoever. 02:07:58.260 --> 02:08:02.020 Now what some other people did is they had like a, I don't know exactly how this was 02:08:02.020 --> 02:08:05.340 done but it was Blizzard approved they were able to like get an alert when it's 02:08:05.340 --> 02:08:07.860 their kick basically and it just like plays an air horn when it's their time 02:08:07.860 --> 02:08:14.420 to kick but that's like there's some crazy technology going on with that but 02:08:14.420 --> 02:08:20.100 you certainly don't need that it's just helpful pretty sure that's a skin is 02:08:20.100 --> 02:08:25.660 not default UI okay but you give what I mean though right like all of this 02:08:25.660 --> 02:08:31.060 functionality is available with default it just will also not be skinned 02:08:31.060 --> 02:08:33.060 but that's just preference, right? 02:08:44.660 --> 02:08:48.420 I'm pretty sure default looks worse. Okay, yeah, so that's, I mean, that's kind of the thing with add-ons, right? 02:08:48.420 --> 02:08:53.620 So add-ons in a lot of ways are not doing things that you literally cannot do in the default UI. 02:08:53.700 --> 02:08:59.060 It just, or mechanics are not impossible to be done with default UI. It's just using add-ons can sometimes make them easier. 02:08:59.060 --> 02:09:00.980 That's the whole, that's like the whole thing. 02:09:01.060 --> 02:09:11.380 Not to say it isn't a problem, but that's just what it is, right? 02:09:11.380 --> 02:09:12.540 Seems tough for Melee. 02:09:12.540 --> 02:09:16.340 I think the only Melee ones that were weird is these things kind of rotate behind your 02:09:16.340 --> 02:09:20.660 character a little bit, and like I know definitely some kicks were missed because like someone 02:09:20.660 --> 02:09:24.820 was dodging a glaive and then they hit their kick, but like the thing happened to be 02:09:24.820 --> 02:09:29.260 rotating behind them at that point, so their kick didn't actually reach the target 02:09:29.260 --> 02:09:31.040 they needed to kick. 02:09:31.040 --> 02:09:37.400 it they tried to kick with it directly behind them and kicks aren't omnidirectional you have to be facing them in some classes cases 02:09:38.640 --> 02:09:40.640 Yeah 02:09:45.160 --> 02:09:51.160 Did rating from home fuck with Nick at all I was concerned concerned about that. I don't know that's not me. I 02:09:52.280 --> 02:09:54.280 Am a different person 02:09:54.920 --> 02:09:56.920 What's your take on rogues this year? 02:09:56.920 --> 02:10:00.320 They kind of low roll tuning a little bit. 02:10:00.320 --> 02:10:03.040 I feel like it's not super controversial. 02:10:03.040 --> 02:10:04.920 That kind of happens in classes every now and then. 02:10:04.920 --> 02:10:08.560 I think it's pretty unlucky if you have 3 DPS specs and they all low roll, 02:10:08.560 --> 02:10:11.280 which they did this year, but it is what it is. 02:10:22.160 --> 02:10:26.600 Max, what was the deal with Hopeful's tweet after the kill? 02:10:26.600 --> 02:10:41.600 Again, not me. I don't know. I don't even know what tweet you're talking about. He sat. 02:10:41.600 --> 02:10:42.600 Okay. 02:10:48.600 --> 02:10:52.600 The one where he said the best thing he ever did was sit on the bench. 02:10:55.600 --> 02:11:00.600 I mean, I don't know how I feel about that. It seems like pretty inconsequential. 02:11:00.600 --> 02:11:03.600 He's basically just saying like, I'm on the bench. 02:11:03.600 --> 02:11:05.600 I've been in the guild for two tiers and I've been on the bench 02:11:05.600 --> 02:11:08.600 and we've won so the best thing I've ever done is sit on the bench. 02:11:08.600 --> 02:11:09.600 W. 02:11:11.600 --> 02:11:31.260 He specified liquid. 02:11:31.260 --> 02:11:34.440 He was basically saying that he didn't play mage for Echo instead of Genji. 02:11:34.440 --> 02:11:38.520 Oh, like, I mean, I don't even think that's flame at him in Echo though, right? 02:11:38.520 --> 02:11:43.480 wasn't he the second major echo behind Jinji? So he would have been benched anyway. I think 02:11:43.480 --> 02:11:48.280 you guys are looking into it. I don't think it's like some fucking crazy like 10 head 02:11:48.280 --> 02:11:52.280 double entendre shit. I'm pretty sure he's just saying things. 02:11:52.280 --> 02:12:08.680 Yeah, just a quick little self-deprecating tweet, 02:12:08.680 --> 02:12:10.400 not that deep. 02:12:22.280 --> 02:12:42.040 All right, questions are about are becoming kind of static. 02:12:42.040 --> 02:12:47.440 Is there anything like, any like, anyone given any like think pieces on the race on 02:12:47.440 --> 02:12:49.560 YouTube or something? 02:12:49.560 --> 02:12:52.880 I looked for a mirror as earlier because you guys said there was one, but I don't think there was. 02:13:00.480 --> 02:13:03.240 Preach did a, preach did a thing. 02:13:04.800 --> 02:13:05.160 Okay. 02:13:07.400 --> 02:13:08.200 Preach gaming. 02:13:10.160 --> 02:13:12.160 Preach was also on the potty cast. 02:13:16.840 --> 02:13:19.440 We were going to record the podcast today, but then, uh, 02:13:19.560 --> 02:13:32.960 We ended up getting a cool guest for it, so it's going to be in a couple days instead. 02:13:32.960 --> 02:13:33.960 He did it on Twitch. 02:13:33.960 --> 02:13:46.360 He hasn't uploaded it yet, all right. 02:13:46.360 --> 02:13:52.400 Why would the first thing that showed up on Twitch or on Google be his Twitch team? 02:13:52.400 --> 02:13:55.480 That's interesting. 02:13:55.480 --> 02:13:59.560 We back post raced world first chat. 02:13:59.560 --> 02:14:07.000 Oh, he hits a no starting soon. 02:14:07.000 --> 02:14:10.360 We good. 02:14:10.360 --> 02:14:13.840 We good. 02:14:14.840 --> 02:14:16.840 He had to restart stream. 02:14:16.840 --> 02:14:18.760 No lefts, no lefts. 02:14:18.760 --> 02:14:21.320 Is there like a oh, he lagged out. 02:14:21.320 --> 02:14:23.320 Is this like in the middle of his? 02:14:26.920 --> 02:14:28.840 Is dorky still hated in liquid? 02:14:29.160 --> 02:14:29.760 Oh, what the fuck? 02:14:29.760 --> 02:14:31.760 We don't hate dorky. 02:14:34.280 --> 02:14:35.640 There's multiple of that title. 02:14:35.640 --> 02:14:37.640 It's the first one. 02:14:38.320 --> 02:14:40.320 Oh, my God. 02:14:40.320 --> 02:14:45.320 This is the the one where he talks race. 02:14:45.320 --> 02:14:51.320 All right, cool. We'll watch this in a second. I'm going to bear back. 02:16:40.320 --> 02:16:52.840 I'm just a quick heads up, we can see testicles, I'm sure it's one, just a quick address. 02:16:52.840 --> 02:16:59.840 It has been 552 days since rebirth, any day now, hold the faith. 02:17:52.840 --> 02:17:54.840 I 02:18:22.840 --> 02:18:24.840 I 02:19:22.840 --> 02:19:42.840 of 02:19:42.840 --> 02:19:44.840 What are they doing? 02:19:44.840 --> 02:19:46.840 What they do 02:19:46.840 --> 02:20:13.840 of 02:20:13.840 --> 02:20:20.880 There's no way you go for three phases yet. 02:20:20.880 --> 02:20:21.880 No. 02:20:21.880 --> 02:20:26.080 Ash in benediction now reduces healing done by 5% was 10% per phase. 02:20:26.080 --> 02:20:27.080 What? 02:20:27.080 --> 02:20:29.280 That's it? 02:20:29.280 --> 02:20:34.440 Bro, that isn't a nerf at all. 02:20:34.440 --> 02:20:39.020 The issue is people lost damage because of the AUG change. 02:20:39.020 --> 02:20:41.600 Why would you just only nerf the healing? 02:20:41.600 --> 02:20:42.600 That's a total meme. 02:20:42.600 --> 02:20:44.840 playing the third orb phase is not doable. 02:20:45.960 --> 02:20:49.040 Like maybe after the nerfs now, that's so bad. 02:21:12.600 --> 02:21:39.680 that 02:21:39.680 --> 02:21:41.840 I don't know 02:21:41.840 --> 02:21:48.840 of 02:21:48.840 --> 02:21:55.840 the 02:21:55.840 --> 02:21:57.840 I 02:22:01.240 --> 02:22:04.100 Did am I crazy in thinking that there's 02:22:06.440 --> 02:22:08.440 Too much emphasis put on 02:22:09.080 --> 02:22:13.200 One person being dead at the end of a fight because there's no battle res is left 02:22:13.200 --> 02:22:21.040 But it seems like no one puts any blame on the people who cost those battle res in the first place like am I wrong in thinking that? 02:22:21.520 --> 02:22:23.400 the mistakes of 02:22:23.400 --> 02:22:29.760 People that caused deaths. Let's say there's four total deaths and three of them were battle res is being that the other three just happened earlier 02:22:29.760 --> 02:22:31.760 They're all the same level of responsibility 02:22:33.600 --> 02:22:39.800 But everyone's only shitting on the one person who just there was no more battle res is left. I don't really get that 02:22:45.240 --> 02:22:51.480 Oh, this part was muted apparently does he have a whole like highlight real intro 02:22:53.400 --> 02:23:05.680 Ah! Comfortable chair! Oh, heaven be! Oh, there's no scheduled lunches anymore! I don't 02:23:05.680 --> 02:23:11.520 have to disappear and fucking wander away and do all sorts of other shit. We're here, dude. 02:23:11.520 --> 02:23:19.520 Yes, your most infamous, infamous world second caster, Hath returned. I had one thing to say 02:23:19.520 --> 02:23:23.560 say when liquid suck the world first man, I looked at medic because it was me and him 02:23:23.560 --> 02:23:29.360 or your under shift and I said, you're fucking doing it. I am not doing it for the full fucking 02:23:29.360 --> 02:23:34.840 time, bro. I'm not doing it. You can announce it. I'm not doing it for the full fucking 02:23:34.840 --> 02:23:41.000 time. This is on you, brother. This is on you. I'm not doing it again, man. For three 02:23:41.000 --> 02:23:46.520 times in a row, I've been on cast when liquid is be echo. I'm not doing it again, man. 02:23:46.520 --> 02:23:51.280 No way. Yeah, that's no fucking way. That probably is pretty hard like you 02:23:52.840 --> 02:24:00.160 Like if you look like you're tilted at all people are just gonna screenshot your face if you even say anything remotely weird 02:24:00.680 --> 02:24:02.600 People are gonna like 02:24:02.600 --> 02:24:08.240 Crucify you for being biased, which you obviously are like every caster is gonna be biased for their team 02:24:08.240 --> 02:24:12.780 There's like basically no positives that could come out of being that exact caster that has to do that 02:24:17.280 --> 02:24:20.600 Especially preach because people already don't do the thing with preach is 02:24:21.440 --> 02:24:26.120 Okay, so like when we killed galleywicks, I think like he got some blowback for that but I 02:24:26.680 --> 02:24:28.860 Still think people's original beef with 02:24:29.760 --> 02:24:31.760 Preach is really funny 02:24:31.800 --> 02:24:39.960 most of it stems back to like when everyone started doing Final Fantasy stuff and they had all those lawsuits and then like preach basically had a video that 02:24:39.960 --> 02:24:45.960 that was titled like I'm done with World of Warcraft or something. 02:24:45.960 --> 02:24:53.960 And like if you guys are used to YouTube, like usually titles and thumbnails are really sensational to get you to click on them. 02:24:53.960 --> 02:24:54.960 And that's all that was. 02:24:54.960 --> 02:24:57.960 If you listen to what he said, he never said, I'm never coming back to Wow. 02:24:57.960 --> 02:24:59.960 He never said, I'm done with Wow. 02:24:59.960 --> 02:25:04.960 He's like, I think I'm going to take a break from Wow for a few months, which is not controversial at all. 02:25:04.960 --> 02:25:10.800 and then everyone for so long took that like when he came back to wow which is 02:25:10.800 --> 02:25:13.560 what he said he would do people were like I thought you're fucking done with 02:25:13.560 --> 02:25:18.000 this bitch like they were just they took it so personally and he never even said 02:25:18.000 --> 02:25:22.480 that but honestly I think that comes with the territory because if you use 02:25:22.480 --> 02:25:29.200 clickbait titles on YouTube I think you are like kind of baiting the 02:25:29.200 --> 02:25:33.880 viewer so I think it's also fair that they don't watch the video and just 02:25:33.880 --> 02:25:39.160 think the title is what you actually said and meant. So I mean it kind of goes both ways 02:25:39.160 --> 02:25:41.360 but it is funny that he never actually said that. 02:25:41.360 --> 02:25:51.160 I'm sorry Phil. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I wish. I wish. Maybe I am the curse. 02:25:51.160 --> 02:25:56.720 We've decided I think that the SK gaming facility is cursed. Like the facility is 02:25:56.720 --> 02:26:02.200 a curse. We're out of it. I think Julie is the curse. Ever since we got nice food 02:26:02.200 --> 02:26:10.280 at the race to world first. Disaster. Disaster. I blame Julia entirely. I blame Julia entirely. 02:26:10.280 --> 02:26:16.120 She's absolutely worst. The kebab is an absolute curse. Like, fuck that. Fuck that. Medic too. 02:26:17.320 --> 02:26:24.840 Yeah. Yeah, man. That was a grim night. That was a sad night. They deserve to lose and they 02:26:24.840 --> 02:26:29.320 know it. They deserve to lose. They had every chance. They had every chance. Now, I should, 02:26:29.320 --> 02:26:34.480 before we get into this I ought to give you some context because I haven't spoken to the 02:26:34.480 --> 02:26:42.820 players at all because it was fucked at the last day it was absolutely fucked at 9 o'clock 02:26:42.820 --> 02:26:47.440 in the fucking morning I'm gonna use some TTS for a little while here so you're not 02:26:47.440 --> 02:26:52.280 feuding all over me while I explain this what at 9 o'clock in the morning on kill day 02:26:52.280 --> 02:26:56.840 we knew it was kill day right absolutely well if we'd known it was kill day for 02:26:56.840 --> 02:27:02.520 three days but then the fight kept going on right so for the third day in a row it's kill day which 02:27:02.520 --> 02:27:07.560 is very stressful on everybody because you're like you need to fucking dial in now and that includes 02:27:07.560 --> 02:27:12.920 the castors you gotta get ready for what's coming so at nine o'clock in the morning i'm in the gym 02:27:14.200 --> 02:27:17.960 and uh i've kind of got the uh there's like a bluetooth speaker in there so i've got the 02:27:17.960 --> 02:27:24.200 race on the speaker and i'm working out and uh in walks my uh grim he's like the uh big 02:27:24.200 --> 02:27:29.000 Fucking the big brain that's running the show kind of thing. He's doing all the bits and bobs, right? 02:27:29.240 --> 02:27:31.240 So Grimm comes in and he goes Mike 02:27:31.680 --> 02:27:39.320 We need to have that conversation. I'm like, I know which conversation this is and says can you stay longer in case this does not 02:27:39.320 --> 02:27:41.320 Still die today 02:27:43.400 --> 02:27:46.540 So I just said you have my axe 02:27:47.520 --> 02:27:51.580 That's all I said is like you have my axe as much as it fucking kills me 02:27:51.580 --> 02:27:57.300 I haven't seen my family now in a long time and this fucking thing will not die 02:27:57.620 --> 02:28:01.460 It just will not die. I was like you have my ex. I was like, all right 02:28:01.460 --> 02:28:05.980 I can stay and then some people couldn't stay in blah blah blah and I was scheduled to leave 02:28:06.980 --> 02:28:12.020 At 6 a.m. The following day. I was scheduled to leave at 6 a.m. The following day, right? 02:28:13.100 --> 02:28:17.300 So he goes okay, I'm gonna rebook the flights give everybody an extra 02:28:17.300 --> 02:28:21.080 a couple of days we're going to extend the hotels blah blah blah I'm like alright 02:28:21.080 --> 02:28:24.900 been there before not the first time right did it reciprocal back in the day 02:28:24.900 --> 02:28:33.260 so not unusual so the day gets going but we're all expecting Echo to have 02:28:33.260 --> 02:28:40.900 killed Lura and won the race 2 p.m. late and really including us yeah but 02:28:40.900 --> 02:28:46.640 I'm sure like that's the thing that I'm really surprised about is that dude 02:28:46.640 --> 02:28:49.920 when you wake up as a guild and you're like, Oh, dude, we're going to win. 02:28:50.080 --> 02:28:53.560 You play so good because everyone has like so much confidence. 02:28:53.560 --> 02:28:56.640 And there's like, you don't feel pressure really, because you're just like, 02:28:57.240 --> 02:28:58.680 we're like, they went to bed. 02:28:58.680 --> 02:29:00.640 Holy fuck, we win. 02:29:00.640 --> 02:29:06.360 I feel like in the past, like before Manaforge Omega, if Echo ever woke up 02:29:07.080 --> 02:29:09.680 and we went to bed with a killable boss, 02:29:10.680 --> 02:29:12.520 they were just going to kill that boss like every time. 02:29:12.520 --> 02:29:17.280 Um, so I'm, I'm definitely surprised that that didn't happen. 02:29:17.280 --> 02:29:20.440 Like they had so many P4 wipes and just P4s are not hard. 02:29:21.680 --> 02:29:22.280 I have a build. 02:29:22.320 --> 02:29:24.820 I've got to get into this, but I haven't been able to speak to anybody at liquid. 02:29:24.860 --> 02:29:25.420 I haven't spoke. 02:29:25.420 --> 02:29:27.040 So I haven't even spoke to anybody echo. 02:29:28.240 --> 02:29:29.800 So context there. 02:29:31.440 --> 02:29:33.600 I'm sure that liquid went to bed that night. 02:29:35.280 --> 02:29:36.440 They assumed they'd lost. 02:29:36.860 --> 02:29:38.280 I have to 100 P. 02:29:38.620 --> 02:29:40.600 I mean, not like 100% chance. 02:29:40.600 --> 02:29:45.440 Like when we talked before we went off, 02:29:45.440 --> 02:29:46.960 I can actually tell you exactly what I said. 02:29:46.960 --> 02:29:49.960 I'm like, guys, I know we were planning on staying up all night. 02:29:49.960 --> 02:29:51.600 I think some people are starting to get tired. 02:29:51.600 --> 02:29:53.560 I think realistically, we have a bit more to go 02:29:53.560 --> 02:29:55.680 and we're not going to kill it tonight. 02:29:55.680 --> 02:29:57.120 We're going to wake up tomorrow. 02:29:57.120 --> 02:30:01.000 And if they have not killed the boss, we are going to win. 02:30:01.000 --> 02:30:04.120 However, it is possible that we wake up tomorrow 02:30:04.120 --> 02:30:05.560 and they have killed the boss. 02:30:05.560 --> 02:30:09.280 And if that's the case, we're all really proud of you. 02:30:09.280 --> 02:30:12.900 you've done a really good job and you know just didn't work out basically and 02:30:12.900 --> 02:30:16.600 then that was it and then we went to bed so like it was it was publicly spoken 02:30:16.600 --> 02:30:22.120 that like we might lose but also if we wake up and it's not dead fucking you 02:30:22.120 --> 02:30:25.840 guys know what this feels like we've done this today and we did this on 02:30:25.840 --> 02:30:30.880 Demensius we know we can do it so it's just basically like once we woke up we 02:30:30.880 --> 02:30:34.440 just felt really good. I believe that they they probably thought at least a 02:30:34.440 --> 02:30:37.760 reasonable margin of error that they'd lost the race they were exhausted 02:30:37.760 --> 02:30:39.080 They were done 02:30:39.080 --> 02:30:44.640 They had to go to bed and I'm so sure and they should have been correct 02:30:45.160 --> 02:30:49.120 They should have been correct. I obviously love the Echo boys, but they should have been correct 02:30:49.360 --> 02:30:51.520 That boss should have been dead before liquid woke up 02:30:51.520 --> 02:30:55.440 And so, you know, it's very hard boss don't get me wrong and they do it 02:30:56.240 --> 02:30:57.600 so 02:30:57.600 --> 02:31:00.640 It's scheduled so that me and medical do the nighttime 02:31:01.240 --> 02:31:04.600 And I'm really happy with that and I said multiple times through the day 02:31:04.600 --> 02:31:10.120 The best thing that can happen is I do not cast today. I shouldn't be casting today 02:31:10.120 --> 02:31:15.560 I shouldn't be on and it's a other side was really nice that people were like what where are you coming on blah blah blah blah 02:31:15.560 --> 02:31:20.640 And it's y'all day and stuff. I should not be casting today. I think it was Alex and 02:31:21.200 --> 02:31:23.200 Someone else who were on 02:31:23.760 --> 02:31:25.880 I said I shouldn't be casting today and then 02:31:26.800 --> 02:31:28.800 The clock started ticking 02:31:30.600 --> 02:31:32.600 I had a really good pull 02:31:32.600 --> 02:31:48.600 We didn't get there, but we were saying they do need more experience in this phase. They probably need to hit like you know three or four more times and they'll be cozy and relaxed in that phase. It's not that hard. You know, you move around, you move out with some stars, but I mean it's hard, but it's not like the end of the world hard. 02:31:48.600 --> 02:31:59.600 They need a couple more times. They're now over killing Lura in phase three so much that she's not even casting Darkwave anymore. Like they're killing it before. They've got so much damage. 02:31:59.600 --> 02:32:02.440 damage, but FTM had to re-roll. 02:32:02.440 --> 02:32:04.360 So he's got to relearn a little bit with this, 02:32:04.360 --> 02:32:06.520 but he's a phenomenal player, so it should be fine. 02:32:06.520 --> 02:32:08.680 Yeah, I actually didn't re-watch their day of progression. 02:32:08.680 --> 02:32:11.800 I don't know how much regression they had with disc. 02:32:11.800 --> 02:32:13.200 We were scared of disc. 02:32:13.200 --> 02:32:17.680 Like, second disc is not great for healing that fight, 02:32:17.680 --> 02:32:20.800 for especially stuff in P1. 02:32:20.800 --> 02:32:22.760 Like, they're really sketchy when you go downstairs 02:32:22.760 --> 02:32:24.280 in P1, and P1's really hard, 02:32:24.280 --> 02:32:25.960 and people play worse when they're not as top 02:32:25.960 --> 02:32:26.800 even if they don't die. 02:32:26.800 --> 02:32:30.240 and also they're really bad for healing up the seeds. 02:32:30.240 --> 02:32:33.400 So like, when we thought about bringing in damage, 02:32:33.400 --> 02:32:34.960 we were like, fuck bringing in disc, man. 02:32:34.960 --> 02:32:37.560 Like that sounds so much worse than Guardian specifically. 02:32:37.560 --> 02:32:39.600 I think that decision might have actually, 02:32:39.600 --> 02:32:40.960 like I think they probably would have won 02:32:40.960 --> 02:32:42.760 if they didn't make any comp swaps. 02:32:43.920 --> 02:32:48.920 Unless again, they didn't even regress. 02:32:49.080 --> 02:32:51.000 Like they just instantly, like for example, 02:32:51.000 --> 02:32:52.760 I think one of the main reasons we won 02:32:52.760 --> 02:32:55.600 was how well we executed the Guardian comp swap. 02:32:55.600 --> 02:33:02.800 We on the first pull of Guardian we were in P4 with everyone alive. Like we one shot it after 02:33:03.120 --> 02:33:05.120 400 plus pulls with blood decay. 02:33:06.320 --> 02:33:11.880 That was like a huge thing. That was also very morale boosting. So we're making all these sort of justifications in our heads. 02:33:12.320 --> 02:33:14.320 So yeah, 2 p.m. Ish 02:33:15.120 --> 02:33:19.080 2 p.m. Ish sounds pretty good 2 p.m. Comes. It's not dead 02:33:20.440 --> 02:33:22.440 The 3 p.m. Comes it's not dead 02:33:22.440 --> 02:33:31.720 And then the conversation started to shift a little bit and it was before dinner, which 02:33:31.720 --> 02:33:36.800 was pushed back, which was like five, then the conversations changes again as people 02:33:36.800 --> 02:33:38.760 start going, well, when is liquid waking up? 02:33:38.760 --> 02:33:42.520 I'm like, oh no, we're having this conversation. 02:33:42.520 --> 02:33:44.440 We should not be having this conversation. 02:33:44.440 --> 02:33:46.160 When are liquid waking up? 02:33:46.160 --> 02:33:47.160 When is that happening? 02:33:47.160 --> 02:33:50.040 Because if they wake up and see that it's not dead, they're going to come out like 02:33:50.040 --> 02:33:51.960 a fucking freight train, right? 02:33:51.960 --> 02:33:57.980 They're gonna come out like a fucking freight train and the players are gonna know that and it's gonna be just the worst vibes ever 02:33:57.980 --> 02:34:00.500 But we shouldn't get there. So it's not that big of a deal 02:34:02.160 --> 02:34:06.460 And I was in the live chat and then I find out we haven't rebooked the flights 02:34:07.140 --> 02:34:11.340 That hasn't happened. I wonder if it also gave them an extra morale boost because like we 02:34:11.820 --> 02:34:14.580 We woke up an hour later because we stayed up later 02:34:15.820 --> 02:34:17.820 And I wonder if they thought 02:34:17.820 --> 02:34:22.320 You know like oh liquid's gonna be on soon and they saw that we weren't waking up and they're like okay 02:34:22.320 --> 02:34:24.480 We still have time, you know, but 02:34:25.560 --> 02:34:32.480 Because we expected Lura to be dead if Lura died by like 2 p.m. We can have a bit of a celebration 02:34:32.940 --> 02:34:37.120 Sure, I can't I like have a drink with the guys or anything because I don't think they even knew 02:34:38.120 --> 02:34:39.960 You know it's in like the back of your head 02:34:39.960 --> 02:34:43.200 You're not like checking their stream to see if they wake up, but like near the end of our night 02:34:43.200 --> 02:34:46.280 It's in my mind that like echo is waking up soon pretty sure I 02:34:46.280 --> 02:34:52.440 Oh, apparently, by the way, on the Lauren, this wasn't data 02:34:52.440 --> 02:34:59.520 mined, but they changed not only this, but they also nerfed the 02:34:59.520 --> 02:35:06.640 egg HP. So it's, so it's, it used to be 207 million. And now it 02:35:06.640 --> 02:35:11.400 is 187. So 20 million less HP on the egg. So you can go back 02:35:11.400 --> 02:35:14.080 to a regular progression of that boss now after the augner. 02:35:16.280 --> 02:35:23.000 shortly after I've got to get up around 6am so no big party or anything but it makes sense it's 02:35:23.000 --> 02:35:27.160 very expensive to rebook all the flights and the hotels and whatever right that's a lot of cost I 02:35:27.160 --> 02:35:34.760 think to like reschedule the US players so like Spen and Vin was like $2,700 like a person 02:35:35.400 --> 02:35:40.520 so it's really expensive to add more hotels and more flights so Grim decides we'll not 02:35:40.520 --> 02:35:45.320 rebook the hotels and the flights until it dies and then we know what we're gonna do right 02:35:46.280 --> 02:35:48.280 All right. Sounds good. 02:35:49.320 --> 02:35:51.320 6 p.m. Comes 02:35:51.480 --> 02:35:56.880 Max, why are you complaining about the difficulty of the bird when Laura took way more to kill? What? 02:35:58.720 --> 02:36:00.840 I'm getting one guide. What are you talking about? 02:36:03.760 --> 02:36:06.080 I'm scheduled to start at 7 p.m. 02:36:07.000 --> 02:36:09.880 I'm talking about and I'm in the chat and I'm like 02:36:11.000 --> 02:36:13.000 I'm gonna have to cast 02:36:13.280 --> 02:36:15.280 Which is really fucking sad 02:36:16.280 --> 02:36:21.880 So sad. So sad. And so I got on with medic. I mean medic having dinner. 02:36:23.080 --> 02:36:28.200 And we're discussing like how this is going to go, how we're going to do it, and blah blah blah 02:36:28.200 --> 02:36:34.200 like because they still should kill it. Right, they still should kill it. So we're going through 02:36:34.200 --> 02:36:38.520 that and the players start chipping in as well because we had gobs, spen, arcsies, and stove 02:36:38.520 --> 02:36:41.640 on site that weren't in the raid. So they're having dinner with us and we're all throwing 02:36:41.640 --> 02:36:46.520 bits and pieces in it's like how should this go you know they're breaking this losing streak 02:36:48.440 --> 02:36:55.080 after nearly three years so we're all me and medica are all set and we're about to go on cast 02:36:55.080 --> 02:36:59.960 i put the fucking headset on and i'm like in the back of my mind for the first time in 02:36:59.960 --> 02:37:05.640 long time i'm like they're not gonna win i knew it i fucking knew it man wait when did you know 02:37:05.640 --> 02:37:08.920 it was like this is gonna sit on and I'm like 02:37:10.200 --> 02:37:13.880 both on site that weren't in the raid so they're having dinner with us and we're all throwing bits 02:37:13.880 --> 02:37:18.600 and pieces in it's like after dinner let's go you know they're breaking this losing streak 02:37:20.520 --> 02:37:27.160 after nearly three years so we're all me and medica are all set and we're about to go on cast 02:37:27.160 --> 02:37:32.200 I put the fucking headset on and I'm like in the back of my mind for the first time a long 02:37:32.200 --> 02:37:35.760 I'm like they're not gonna win. Let's fucking go bro. We have aura 02:37:36.560 --> 02:37:43.080 This is what everyone used to say about echo brother like dude when echo gets that fucking kill in their sights and they smell blood in the water 02:37:43.080 --> 02:37:48.240 It's fucking over bro, but now we have that shit. He literally fucking we're in his head rent 02:37:48.240 --> 02:37:50.160 We're not even awake yet, bro 02:37:50.160 --> 02:37:51.720 We're literally 02:37:51.720 --> 02:37:53.720 worse, we're fucking 02:37:54.040 --> 02:37:56.040 Completely asleep and aura farming 02:37:56.920 --> 02:37:59.120 I knew it behind by like 02:37:59.120 --> 02:38:03.160 40% on the boss and P4 and this guy's like they're gonna win 02:38:07.080 --> 02:38:13.460 But I'm gonna give it my all 100% I'm absolutely gonna give it my all and be medic at this conversations 02:38:13.460 --> 02:38:19.000 Like we're gonna give it our all because they can do it they can absolutely do it and we want them to do it 02:38:19.000 --> 02:38:21.000 But the back of my head I was like 02:38:21.720 --> 02:38:23.720 Well, it's not gonna happen 02:38:24.720 --> 02:38:27.480 It's not gonna happen. And so we get on 02:38:27.480 --> 02:38:29.080 and 02:38:29.080 --> 02:38:33.800 We do a couple of hours and they get uh, I can't remember what pulls they had when I was casting 02:38:33.800 --> 02:38:35.800 I think it was the 16% and the 6% 02:38:36.920 --> 02:38:41.640 All 12% and 6% something like that. They got very very fucking close. I was like, all right 02:38:42.160 --> 02:38:48.320 The momentum's building yeah 4% so we lost our aura basically. I was like, okay. That's the fire 02:38:48.320 --> 02:38:52.360 That's what they need. That's it right there. They could do it now. They could see it's killable 02:38:52.360 --> 02:38:58.440 It's weird. There's a little bit of fire when you, you guys have probably heard us say this before, 02:38:58.440 --> 02:39:04.520 like, we'll have a poll where we don't kill it and the chat screaming like, no, but us in the guild 02:39:04.520 --> 02:39:09.560 are like, fuck yeah, bro, this boss is so fucking dead. When we say stuff like that, that's basically 02:39:09.560 --> 02:39:14.920 proving to everyone like, they can see it with their eyes, not from analyst numbers, 02:39:14.920 --> 02:39:18.360 they can see it with their eyes that we can kill the boss, and that gives you a lot of 02:39:18.360 --> 02:39:22.840 adrenaline and like focus. At least it's like a buff for like 30 minutes to an hour. 02:39:28.120 --> 02:39:34.760 However, when that starts happening more and more, when you start having wipes lower and lower, 02:39:34.760 --> 02:39:40.920 once you're past the point of, I know we can kill this now, those wipes are not adrenaline inducing, 02:39:40.920 --> 02:39:45.640 they're kind of tilt inducing because it's no longer, oh I'm excited, I know we can kill it 02:39:45.640 --> 02:39:51.720 now it's more like oh we probably should have killed it right there what went wrong and those two things are like very 02:39:51.760 --> 02:39:56.720 They're so close and I think as a viewer they look almost the same because the reaction is no 02:39:56.920 --> 02:40:01.720 From the viewers both times, but one of them is like super motivating and the other one is not motivating at all 02:40:02.280 --> 02:40:07.360 It's very killable. It's kind of you guys have probably seen this before have you guys ever wiped really low on a boss 02:40:08.000 --> 02:40:14.060 And then you like thought you regressed for a while because what you didn't realize is like a lot of the right people 02:40:14.060 --> 02:40:17.820 got the right mechanics at the right time and you got a way better pull than you were actually 02:40:17.820 --> 02:40:21.260 progressing and you trick yourself into thinking that you were more progressed than you were and 02:40:21.260 --> 02:40:25.820 now you view any pull that isn't at that point is regression even though it's not 02:40:27.420 --> 02:40:32.300 and then you're just like mad basically when you wipe instead of uh instead of just knowing 02:40:32.300 --> 02:40:35.980 that you just got a lucky pull basically it's really hard to figure that out like it happens 02:40:35.980 --> 02:40:40.540 to everybody including us one arm bandit perfect example everyone killed one arm bandit thinking 02:40:40.540 --> 02:40:46.860 they should have killed it 30 poles ago, right? So yeah, it's just a very interesting thing how that 02:40:46.860 --> 02:40:52.220 works. We were a little unsure on the DPS at first, but then Blizzard made a very quick hotfix. The DPS 02:40:52.220 --> 02:40:58.380 was quite high that you needed in that last phase. And so now they knew it was killable. I was 02:40:58.380 --> 02:41:05.580 like, that's what they needed. They now know 100% it dies. All good. Let's just slam three 02:41:05.580 --> 02:41:11.880 of these poles and it's dead right easy game didn't come they're like a break 02:41:11.880 --> 02:41:15.480 gets called I think it was a six minute break by echo they're gonna go for a 02:41:15.480 --> 02:41:18.660 piss they're gonna grab some snacks I think they put out some like little 02:41:18.660 --> 02:41:22.980 nibbles for the guys so me and Beneku obviously what I catch everything we're 02:41:22.980 --> 02:41:27.060 like right we'll take our break at the same time I walk out of the castor room 02:41:27.060 --> 02:41:31.860 and the way the castor room works is behind the players and it's at the 02:41:31.860 --> 02:41:36.220 other end away from the kitchen so you go kitchen cast kitchen cast the hangout 02:41:36.220 --> 02:41:44.340 room players actual cast a room so me about it come out there I see and I knew 02:41:44.340 --> 02:41:49.740 what was about to happen I look down the corridor every player is already 02:41:49.740 --> 02:41:55.860 out there sure and there is 20 people hanging out the cast the hangout room 02:41:55.860 --> 02:41:59.140 I'm like liquid if just fucking killed it 02:41:59.940 --> 02:42:02.540 They hadn't oh, I know that feeling I 02:42:03.140 --> 02:42:09.840 Know that feeling sometimes when you go on a break or you go to get lunch and you like pass the production staff 02:42:10.500 --> 02:42:14.580 If Echo's ever having a really good poll they kind of try to hide it from you 02:42:14.580 --> 02:42:16.780 But I mean if they're ever like having a really low poll 02:42:17.300 --> 02:42:25.180 You hear you see a bunch of people like surrounding a computer that like someone's watching it on and then you hear them like all 02:42:25.180 --> 02:42:31.020 breathe a massive sigh of relief when they wipe. Like that happened, dude. I, one of the main things 02:42:31.660 --> 02:42:36.620 that made me find out the second time Echo had a low wipe on Demensius is like on the first time 02:42:36.620 --> 02:42:41.180 it happened, I actually had it open on the second time it happened. I heard out in the lobby, 02:42:41.180 --> 02:42:47.180 people were like, Oh, thank God. I like very clearly heard that. And I'm like, Oh, they probably 02:42:47.180 --> 02:42:53.820 just wiped really low again. 10 seconds away from killing it. I walked down the corridor to 02:42:53.820 --> 02:43:01.500 to go have a pee and then I just see all the players disperse with heads down they just walk away 02:43:02.620 --> 02:43:08.860 and I was like it just died it just fucking died and then I hear it you know audibly people are 02:43:08.860 --> 02:43:12.620 telling people who didn't see it who were getting snacks or had been in the bathroom or areas like 02:43:12.620 --> 02:43:18.140 it just died it's over it's done and just sort of like going back to their chairs and shit. 02:43:18.860 --> 02:43:22.460 I will say it's nice to have it die when you're not at your computer. 02:43:23.820 --> 02:43:28.180 Cuz like you know if it dies when it's at your computer and you actually care about the result 02:43:28.180 --> 02:43:30.780 You're obviously gonna look really deflated when you actually see it 02:43:30.940 --> 02:43:36.300 And you know like someone in the other guild is gonna like clip your reaction to seeing it to like make them feel better 02:43:36.300 --> 02:43:40.300 And it's like I don't want to give them that so at least you're not on camera. It's it's pretty good 02:43:42.660 --> 02:43:44.660 Fuck man fuck 02:43:45.780 --> 02:43:47.780 So I 02:43:48.100 --> 02:43:50.100 Turn around immediately 02:43:50.100 --> 02:43:55.120 And start heading back and Alex is shouting me. He's like Mike. Do you know Mike? 02:43:55.120 --> 02:43:58.120 Do you know what I just gave him the thumbs up behind me as I close the door? 02:43:58.120 --> 02:44:03.080 I'm like, yeah, yeah, we know that's that's it's a medic is I'm not announcing it for the fourth fucking time 02:44:03.080 --> 02:44:08.160 Do you could do this? He's like, I got one point five times speed. I don't tell you what was really interesting 02:44:08.160 --> 02:44:14.400 Is I could never supply headsets on we've closed the cast of those so a silence in the players and then it just goes 02:44:15.600 --> 02:44:17.600 Oh shit 02:44:17.600 --> 02:44:21.600 Screams it's so loud, screams it's so loud. 02:44:21.600 --> 02:44:24.520 It's like, bullshits like this. 02:44:24.520 --> 02:44:26.640 I don't like, I feel exactly the same, man. 02:44:26.640 --> 02:44:27.840 I feel exactly the same. 02:44:27.840 --> 02:44:31.040 So we're like, right, compose yourself, get back on. 02:44:31.040 --> 02:44:31.880 Cast goes on. 02:44:31.880 --> 02:44:34.840 And how is he still telling this story? 02:44:35.720 --> 02:44:37.480 Because he's an entertainer, bro. 02:44:39.960 --> 02:44:42.200 If you can tell the same story 02:44:42.200 --> 02:44:44.680 that could take like a couple of minutes 02:44:44.680 --> 02:44:46.800 and you stretch it out into like much longer than that, 02:44:46.800 --> 02:44:52.440 people are actually interested the whole time. You got talent is what I remember is I remember 02:44:52.440 --> 02:45:00.520 is the very next pull is echoes one percent and they enter phase four and we are giving 02:45:00.520 --> 02:45:04.880 it our fucking balls as casters. I think if you listen to that pull, we're giving it 02:45:04.880 --> 02:45:10.040 the fucking beans and make Maddox pushing me and we're we're giving it our all and 02:45:10.040 --> 02:45:15.640 they get into phase four all alive. And I look at medic because we're not on camera. 02:45:15.640 --> 02:45:17.640 I look at medic and I go 02:45:17.640 --> 02:45:19.640 I just shake my fucking head and he's smiling 02:45:19.640 --> 02:45:21.640 he's like this is so stupid 02:45:21.640 --> 02:45:23.640 if they kill it now 02:45:23.640 --> 02:45:25.640 where the f- why? 02:45:25.640 --> 02:45:27.640 why do this? why fucking do this? 02:45:27.640 --> 02:45:29.640 so I'm just looking at him and I'm like 02:45:29.640 --> 02:45:31.640 ah 02:45:31.640 --> 02:45:33.640 yeah, it's like the 0.45% 02:45:33.640 --> 02:45:35.640 pull or something and then they go in 02:45:35.640 --> 02:45:37.640 and did it but then they start chain pulling 02:45:37.640 --> 02:45:39.640 and this is where I'm leading to the little circle 02:45:39.640 --> 02:45:41.640 here of how I might be missing some 02:45:41.640 --> 02:45:43.640 information 02:45:43.640 --> 02:45:50.800 12 20. It's like 20 past midnight. I haven't rebooked the flights. I'm leaving in like 02:45:50.800 --> 02:45:59.080 five hours. I'm leaving and echo keep pulling. And medics like in the same boat as me because 02:45:59.080 --> 02:46:04.280 he's casting the LCS or whatever the league thing in a couple days and medic hasn't been 02:46:04.280 --> 02:46:08.640 home in six weeks because he was in Brazil casting for League of Legends. He flew from 02:46:08.640 --> 02:46:15.640 Brazil to us. And he hasn't seen his wife in six weeks, hasn't been home. And he's talking 02:46:15.640 --> 02:46:22.300 and I, I, uh, LEC went legal legends thing, right? Uh, so I did something I've never had 02:46:22.300 --> 02:46:27.200 to do before and I felt really bad, but I think it's understandable. Is I key up to 02:46:27.200 --> 02:46:31.040 talk to production. So you guys can't hear me. And all I could think of saying is 02:46:31.040 --> 02:46:35.840 like, I'm really not being an asshole right now, but I have to leave in like five 02:46:35.840 --> 02:46:41.840 hours and we haven't even packed my stream is all set up and shit I was like I need to get out of here 02:46:43.200 --> 02:46:51.360 I need to go and make sense Sam thankfully goes throw to comms and we'll have a chat about what 02:46:51.360 --> 02:46:55.200 we're gonna do I'm like all right because what I would really would have preferred is that we got 02:46:55.200 --> 02:47:00.000 an extra day I would have preferred that so I could you know it's not nice to be like oh you 02:47:00.000 --> 02:47:05.840 lost, I'm out of here. I mean, I mean, if you're echo and you're running a business 02:47:06.720 --> 02:47:12.240 and you know it's going to the next day and you've already lost, I feel like cutting off all the 02:47:12.240 --> 02:47:17.440 casters day rates by one day goes a very long way to making your event profitable or just making 02:47:17.440 --> 02:47:21.680 a lot more money because like the value of the casters on the last day is significantly less 02:47:21.680 --> 02:47:28.160 after you've already lost and regardless of any other circumstances, I feel like that just 02:47:28.160 --> 02:47:29.160 to make sense. 02:47:29.160 --> 02:47:34.720 Impression, but the flights are the flights and we've been up all day and we've tamed 02:47:34.720 --> 02:47:36.960 Red Bulls relentlessly. 02:47:36.960 --> 02:47:40.200 So I'm not going to exactly be able to get to sleep or anything. 02:47:40.200 --> 02:47:43.320 And I still need to like pack my show, but I'm going to be another hour here before 02:47:43.320 --> 02:47:45.800 I can even get out of the building. 02:47:45.800 --> 02:47:50.120 So I was like, I'm not being an ass, but we need to get off the cast. 02:47:50.120 --> 02:47:52.360 So me and Medic got off. 02:47:52.360 --> 02:47:54.040 Medic's flight was before mine. 02:47:54.040 --> 02:47:55.360 He was gone before I woke up. 02:47:55.360 --> 02:47:57.360 So, Medics was at like 5am or something. 02:47:57.360 --> 02:48:00.360 And then we go into production and they're like, 02:48:00.360 --> 02:48:02.360 No, it's totally fine, we understand. 02:48:02.360 --> 02:48:04.360 There's some people who are not flying out till the night time. 02:48:04.360 --> 02:48:06.360 I think every castler was obviously still there. 02:48:06.360 --> 02:48:07.360 So, we'll go and have a chat with them. 02:48:07.360 --> 02:48:09.360 But you two had done, you finished. 02:48:09.360 --> 02:48:12.360 All good, go and sort yourselves out. 02:48:12.360 --> 02:48:13.360 So, fair play to production for that, 02:48:13.360 --> 02:48:15.360 because it was our shift. 02:48:15.360 --> 02:48:17.360 But I mean, it had gone longer than it was supposed to anyway. 02:48:17.360 --> 02:48:20.360 So, we were like, all right, cool. 02:48:20.360 --> 02:48:22.360 And I couldn't talk to the players, 02:48:22.360 --> 02:48:23.360 because they were still pulling. 02:48:23.360 --> 02:48:27.340 I didn't get to say goodbye to Roger or anybody. I went to who I could 02:48:28.220 --> 02:48:34.380 But I thought I've got to go I had to wipe the PC I was on pack everything up go get the choir off the set 02:48:34.380 --> 02:48:36.260 You know, I was wandering around. Yeah, that sucks 02:48:36.260 --> 02:48:38.980 And then it felt that way for us to you this time basically 02:48:39.380 --> 02:48:44.040 The majority of the cost in these races is room and board like just just simply 02:48:44.580 --> 02:48:48.500 Feeding people and keeping them in hotels is just super expensive 02:48:48.500 --> 02:48:58.500 So once we get near the end of the raid, they basically have our flights booked for like a certain date and then once we get to that date, they'll just keep extending it by two days at a time. 02:48:58.500 --> 02:49:04.500 So sometimes we finish the raid and people are flying out in two days and you have some time to like decompress and celebrate. 02:49:04.500 --> 02:49:10.500 And sometimes, like this raid, we killed it right before they were about to rebook our flights. 02:49:10.500 --> 02:49:17.500 So then people just were basically flying out the morning after we killed it and we had no time to hang out at all basically. 02:49:17.500 --> 02:49:19.740 We got to party that one night, but yeah 02:49:21.220 --> 02:49:23.220 Displates came out 02:49:23.740 --> 02:49:26.500 The people like the most signing including the players 02:49:27.260 --> 02:49:30.760 Like this is gonna take like another hour. I was like, all right 02:49:30.760 --> 02:49:34.340 Look, this is the way we're doing this because I absolutely want to do this for sure 02:49:35.340 --> 02:49:37.340 But get it all sorted 02:49:37.940 --> 02:49:42.020 I'm gonna go and pack up my PC and wipe it and do all that shit 02:49:42.020 --> 02:49:45.940 I'm gonna pack all up now come back and we'll sign everything as fast as possible to get out of here 02:49:45.940 --> 02:49:50.340 And maybe it's dead by then, you know, I hope it was still there. Maybe it's dead by then 02:49:50.660 --> 02:49:52.660 And we'll get to say goodbye to the players 02:49:54.100 --> 02:49:57.540 But that did not happen as you well know that didn't happen 02:49:57.980 --> 02:50:02.300 So I came in I signed as many just this place as I could and I was like I've got to go 02:50:02.300 --> 02:50:07.300 I just grabbed a bin bag just that I just grabbed a fucking refuse bag through all my shit in it 02:50:07.300 --> 02:50:12.700 I'm left like like some orphan moving away, you know with the stick and the bag on the back 02:50:12.700 --> 02:50:18.020 I just grabbed all my shit threw it in a bin bag. I was like, I've got to get the fuck out of here 02:50:18.020 --> 02:50:22.060 It's gone like 1 a.m. I have to be in the I have to be in a cab in a few hours 02:50:22.340 --> 02:50:28.140 So I just grabbed all my fucking shit and was like I'm out. I've got to go and they're like see you later 02:50:28.140 --> 02:50:33.440 You know gave hugs to everybody I could I'd left the building and I just sent Roger a message 02:50:34.220 --> 02:50:39.140 I have a really funny message because we were unsure of the DPS in P4 and 02:50:39.140 --> 02:50:42.740 And so I said to Roger on a break I was like dude 02:50:42.740 --> 02:50:46.980 It looks like it dies at 10% and for lower reasons that kind of matches up 02:50:46.980 --> 02:50:48.980 So I said it might die at 10% and 02:50:49.940 --> 02:50:54.220 So we'll see and I shut my phone and Roger's just messaged me at 02:50:55.380 --> 02:50:59.100 9 30 p.m. It just says by the way Mike it was not 10% 02:50:59.900 --> 02:51:05.840 So I just said laughing my assos laughing my ass off when I got home and then I texted him 02:51:05.840 --> 02:51:10.600 Roger I've had to leave the flight is in a few hours and I really don't want to 02:51:10.600 --> 02:51:14.560 disturb you I still pull in I'm really sad for you give my love to the team the 02:51:14.560 --> 02:51:22.840 wind is coming in the future thanks sorry I missed you it's so crazy we just 02:51:22.840 --> 02:51:28.040 had a point one percent wipe which I haven't seen I said sorry that was the 02:51:28.040 --> 02:51:32.680 last message I said to Roger was that well I was laid bed I was laying 02:51:32.680 --> 02:51:37.480 fucking bed and like yeah sorry like that's I was nearly 1am in the morning 02:51:37.480 --> 02:51:41.480 I'm so fucking sorry dude heads again at a point one four percent yeah I've not 02:51:41.480 --> 02:51:45.680 seen that either I know I woke up when I checked the stream that they listed on 02:51:45.680 --> 02:51:52.240 the thing as 0.0% something like that people were really confused as to why 02:51:52.240 --> 02:51:58.720 I said best poll 0.0% on the boss and so I did get to start to the players 02:51:58.720 --> 02:52:04.180 ultimately they killed it yesterday you know I did all that kind of stuff but it 02:52:04.180 --> 02:52:09.520 was the middle it was very late I slept two hours total so yesterday I slept a 02:52:09.520 --> 02:52:14.520 long time I went to bed he wiped that wipe yeah I thought I missed the kill 02:52:14.520 --> 02:52:19.880 because of that yeah exactly man like exactly but what do we think about this 02:52:19.880 --> 02:52:25.240 I mean where do we even start here we go I don't know I don't know where we 02:52:25.240 --> 02:52:28.400 even started this water. I mean, the story of this race is 02:52:28.400 --> 02:52:36.560 disaster to disaster to amazing. Right. What an unusual 02:52:36.560 --> 02:52:40.960 few weeks I've had being there. Just absolute. I think it was 02:52:40.960 --> 02:52:46.600 just because the other bosses weren't out. Honestly. Like 02:52:46.600 --> 02:52:50.120 crap race till the last two bosses is like most raids ever 02:52:50.160 --> 02:52:52.960 like most raids the last two bosses are basically at least 02:52:52.960 --> 02:52:54.680 if you care about the race world first that's what 02:52:54.680 --> 02:52:58.540 you're there for they're not really making many of the other bosses supposed to be for 02:52:58.540 --> 02:53:02.520 the race. Sometimes that's not true. Nexus, Princess Kyvez, us, Ledgefist. There's sometimes 02:53:02.520 --> 02:53:04.520 a boss in there. 02:53:04.520 --> 02:53:09.680 Palamity with the first week and the first, the first, you know, two weeks of the race 02:53:09.680 --> 02:53:17.080 to one of the most monumental, epic, epic conclusions you could ask for. Like if 02:53:17.080 --> 02:53:22.480 this was like Dementius mixed with Sepulchre, Dementius mixed with Sepulchre, it was 02:53:22.480 --> 02:53:27.920 like unreal it was unreal uh scrap said for the single bosses he doesn't think he'd do anything 02:53:27.920 --> 02:53:31.920 he thinks liquid would kill them before they even got up uh no we're not expecting i don't think 02:53:31.920 --> 02:53:36.480 anybody's expecting anything from the single one-off bosses um yeah i don't think that's not 02:53:36.480 --> 02:53:41.280 i wish blizzard would like clarify that though well the thing is i was talking to some of them 02:53:41.280 --> 02:53:46.640 big brains in the wow scene and they were like um this race would have been so much better if 02:53:46.640 --> 02:53:51.160 for Lyria was all so harder and I disagree with that like for my 02:53:57.160 --> 02:53:59.160 Interesting 02:54:02.520 --> 02:54:07.160 Wait, where is he gonna go with that point and everybody else thought to blizzard about it 02:54:07.320 --> 02:54:09.600 Hopefully I can when next time I get to chat to them 02:54:09.800 --> 02:54:15.500 But we I don't think we get Bella and and Lura the way they were without a Lyria being full bin 02:54:16.640 --> 02:54:25.520 I think Lura would have still been what it was, but I mean, I think Illyria, if Illyria 02:54:25.520 --> 02:54:31.840 was really hard, it would still give us a few days off at the end of the week. 02:54:31.840 --> 02:54:35.440 And then like, if you just basically trade the difficulty of Illyria to Ballora, and 02:54:35.440 --> 02:54:38.680 I still think that's a better race because a harder version of Illyria would have just 02:54:38.680 --> 02:54:40.160 been more fun overall. 02:54:40.160 --> 02:54:46.160 like if it wasn't for all area being absolute dog water and voids by and 02:54:46.160 --> 02:54:50.880 dream rift being such dog water we wouldn't have got what we got with 02:54:50.880 --> 02:54:54.620 March on Keldon ass so I think certain Dippity works out a bit there they had 02:54:54.620 --> 02:54:59.560 four days to cook on those bosses they had four days to really without stress 02:54:59.560 --> 02:55:02.320 without because you think about the hot fixes they throw out like they did to 02:55:02.320 --> 02:55:05.880 Vanguard and all area they've got to be pushed out within like ten minutes 02:55:05.880 --> 02:55:09.800 right they just sort of slap some fucking shit on it to try and make it 02:55:09.800 --> 02:55:14.920 live a little bit longer. So this whole thing isn't done in fucking five hours. So they just 02:55:14.920 --> 02:55:18.720 slap a bunch of shit on it as quickly as possible. But with Margell and ass, they really 02:55:18.720 --> 02:55:26.080 got to sit down and cook those bosses up to tune them like so well, like so, so well. 02:55:26.080 --> 02:55:29.320 I think it helps. I assume liquid to this as well, but they told Blizzard what gear 02:55:29.320 --> 02:55:34.960 level they were going to have going into Margell and ass, which was like to 79. So 02:55:34.960 --> 02:55:41.200 helps right like we're going to have 279 at level plus bantus runes going into going into 02:55:41.200 --> 02:55:45.680 this fight. So if you don't tune it around that like we're just going to stomp it and 02:55:45.680 --> 02:55:50.680 it the whole things wash eight the spells. Well the other big conversation is the add-on 02:55:50.680 --> 02:55:51.680 thing. 02:55:51.680 --> 02:55:54.520 All right. I think I think we've heard a lot of mistakes and we're going to talk 02:55:54.520 --> 02:55:59.120 about this on the podcast tomorrow. So we're probably good. I did like his story 02:55:59.120 --> 02:56:02.440 about how he learned about the, the race ending and stuff though. 02:56:04.840 --> 02:56:05.200 All right. 02:56:05.240 --> 02:56:10.100 I think I'm going to, I think I'm going to skedaddle, going to skedaddle out of 02:56:10.100 --> 02:56:14.000 here, recording the podcast either tomorrow or Saturday. 02:56:14.000 --> 02:56:16.600 So be on the lookout for that. 02:56:18.920 --> 02:56:19.820 When do you go home? 02:56:19.940 --> 02:56:25.540 I mean, I might, if I have, I probably should just take my stuff home now. 02:56:27.580 --> 02:56:28.620 Isn't it rush hour now? 02:56:28.620 --> 02:56:34.880 Yeah, I mean it was rush hour and LA starts at 4pm. So it was unless I was gonna make this stream one hour 02:56:36.780 --> 02:56:41.420 We were gonna be in rush hour anyway, so we'll figure it out 02:56:44.900 --> 02:56:46.900 We'll see 02:56:52.140 --> 02:56:56.220 Playing hockey tonight. Yep played last night played Tuesday, and I will play again tonight 02:56:56.220 --> 02:57:02.060 Although I am very sore right now just because like usually playing once a day over the course of a couple days is like nothing 02:57:02.480 --> 02:57:07.920 But after not moving my body for the entire race basically it's been a 02:57:09.680 --> 02:57:13.680 Definitely noticeable the body is getting shocked back into doing stuff