WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:02.060 you 00:30.000 --> 00:32.060 you 01:00.000 --> 01:02.060 you 01:30.000 --> 01:32.060 you 02:00.000 --> 02:02.060 you 02:30.000 --> 02:32.060 you 03:00.000 --> 03:02.060 you 03:30.000 --> 03:32.060 you 04:00.000 --> 04:02.060 you 04:30.000 --> 04:32.060 you 05:00.000 --> 05:02.060 you 05:30.000 --> 05:32.060 you 06:00.000 --> 06:02.060 you 06:30.000 --> 06:32.060 you 07:00.000 --> 07:02.060 you 07:30.000 --> 07:32.060 you 08:00.000 --> 08:13.200 I can't wait until he puts the joke. 08:13.200 --> 08:14.480 Okay. 08:14.480 --> 08:15.480 What's the joke remote again? 08:15.480 --> 08:38.040 And I know someone added it. 08:38.040 --> 08:45.040 There's another one too, Barrow, Maximum Dent or something. 09:08.040 --> 09:24.680 All right, this will be fun. 09:24.680 --> 09:30.760 I'll probably hit like a quick little Q&A. 09:30.760 --> 09:37.240 Maybe you react to some stuff that I've missed over the last week or two. 09:37.240 --> 09:40.240 And then see where it goes from there, which you could tell, by the way, all from the stream 09:40.240 --> 09:41.240 title. 09:41.240 --> 09:51.040 I don't even know why I'm, uh, why I'm even, you know, mentioning it. 09:51.040 --> 09:56.080 Have you seen that guy Max on Twitter beefing with Scrape? 09:56.080 --> 09:59.080 I'm not even beefing with Scrape. 09:59.080 --> 10:03.640 He just said that we didn't have the bug on our, he like made a couple assertions 10:03.640 --> 10:09.440 of like the bug wasn't happening on and a like the coiled alter nerf weird thing 10:09.440 --> 10:13.280 uh... 10:13.280 --> 10:16.180 and then i just showed it that that wasn't true i don't think there is any 10:16.180 --> 10:23.180 drama 10:33.640 --> 11:03.120 Max, the fact that the raid was so mid-effect motivation 11:03.120 --> 11:09.120 slash morale a little bit near the end. Did it affect viewership? I don't know. 11:09.120 --> 11:14.640 Maybe. I have no idea what the viewership was, but there's a lot of factors that 11:14.640 --> 11:17.760 could have contributed to low viewership, right? Like a bunch of splits, people 11:17.760 --> 11:20.920 being over it, the race going longer than normal. There's like precedent from 11:20.920 --> 11:29.200 before that if the tier goes long that people are going to start tuning out as well. 11:33.120 --> 11:57.880 It's a reptile, not a bug. 11:57.880 --> 11:59.880 Yeah, yeah, that was a good reply. 12:20.960 --> 12:23.920 Well, is that song that played the one about madness? 12:23.920 --> 12:26.600 You're not gonna believe this, but it's called Madness. 12:27.880 --> 12:35.880 Yeah, I just heard that during this race. It's from a band called Tribal Blood. Oh, and it's apparently not even there. 12:35.880 --> 12:41.880 It's like barely cracks their top five, and they only have like 60,000 monthly listeners. 12:41.880 --> 12:45.880 Are we buying in early? Hold on. 12:50.880 --> 12:52.880 Songs from like five years ago, too. 12:57.880 --> 13:09.880 Was everyone at the facility? 13:09.880 --> 13:11.880 Not everyone, but almost everyone. 13:27.880 --> 13:55.880 Max thanks for winning now my mate needs to go get a buzz cut for a year made my day dude. Yeah, that actually I feel bad for people a couple years ago who are just for the past couple years that made some bet like dude there's no way echo loses this and it looks like in the moment they're totally right and then they just make a bet and then they just lose. 13:57.880 --> 14:04.880 I don't know how much I'm going to go to BlizzCon this year though. 14:04.880 --> 14:12.880 I know I'm going to go at least one day, but honestly with it being in such close proximity to the race, 14:12.880 --> 14:17.880 I don't know if I'm going to be super motivated to go because I don't know. 14:17.880 --> 14:21.880 Usually after the race, I have to power up. 14:21.880 --> 14:24.820 because I don't know, I just, 14:26.100 --> 14:29.500 like usually after the race, I have to like power down 14:29.500 --> 14:31.700 for like usually a couple of weeks. 14:44.020 --> 14:46.660 Max, if the next rate is that disastrous 14:46.660 --> 14:48.100 in terms of quality and bugs, 14:48.100 --> 14:51.260 what will that mean for the race moving forward? 14:51.260 --> 14:53.900 I mean, obviously, it wouldn't be great. 14:53.900 --> 14:56.260 But I mean, I'd be more worried about the game going forward, 14:56.260 --> 14:58.060 you know what I mean? 14:58.060 --> 15:02.860 Like, I think cracks showing in the we're doing raids every, 15:02.860 --> 15:05.220 we're going to be pushing out expansions 15:05.220 --> 15:07.460 with three major seasons every 18 months. 15:07.460 --> 15:10.420 And like, you're starting to see the consequences of that. 15:10.420 --> 15:13.020 If they continue that schedule, I just 15:13.020 --> 15:15.780 feel like it's just the expectation from a player 15:15.780 --> 15:18.560 is that like every patch in season 15:18.560 --> 15:19.820 is just going to be low quality. 15:19.820 --> 15:20.860 And if that's the case, I feel 15:20.860 --> 15:29.820 That's actually the worst possible thing that could happen to the game, so I hopefully 15:29.820 --> 15:57.100 not. 15:57.100 --> 16:01.420 are so good players they have new players and they are not so good mentally ready to 16:01.420 --> 16:06.660 clutch the final line and win. Alright I'm just going to stop reading that bro. You're 16:06.660 --> 16:09.660 just fucking saying shit. You have literally no idea what you're talking about. 16:27.100 --> 16:50.420 Who is who would have thought like it was gonna Natty 16% dude? I swear you guys should have learned 16:50.420 --> 16:57.180 in the past couple of tiers though. At least with Lura. Like in Lura, Echo had like a low 16:57.180 --> 17:03.540 wipe and we had like a 20% wipe or something. And Chat, it's like Chat isn't convinced that 17:03.540 --> 17:08.180 you can win from 20 to 0 unless you start getting like low wipes first. But like when 17:08.180 --> 17:13.060 you're fighting an end of a fight that's like kind of easy, you can just do massive 17:13.060 --> 17:18.540 jumps like that. And kind of case in point, like Echo went from like 30% to 7% earlier 17:18.540 --> 17:25.580 in the day and that jump would have been even smaller. Also we just had like 17:25.580 --> 17:29.700 infinite dam. Not really sure what was going on with that. I think maybe what 17:29.700 --> 17:33.260 happened is they were like starting the day with some cooldowns in P2 just for 17:33.260 --> 17:36.700 consistency and then they were taking them out one by one and then they were 17:36.700 --> 17:39.540 like oh this boss is killable and maybe they didn't like fully damage 17:39.540 --> 17:43.580 optimized yet where like our thing was we started the day before that with 17:43.580 --> 17:47.460 all CDs off of everything but the boss. There were also some small 17:47.460 --> 17:52.420 comp differences which maybe made a difference but like we actually we had like a lot more damage than 17:52.420 --> 17:59.620 them on the boss like on each of our best pulls. Do you guys know what Echo's best pull was entering 17:59.620 --> 18:05.700 the last phase? Like how low they got it going into the last phase like ever like whatever their best 18:05.700 --> 18:15.860 pull was? Like 43 or 42? Okay so yeah like on their best pull they're like 2% behind our best 18:15.860 --> 18:21.140 full, but that's like a pretty big number, right? I mean it's enough to where if they had the same 18:21.140 --> 18:24.580 boss damage as us they probably would have won, right? Because like on their 1% wipe the boss would 18:24.580 --> 18:26.580 just be dead. 18:45.860 --> 18:50.860 How crazy did you feel that they lost another 1% boss kill? Did you see my reaction to it? 18:52.940 --> 18:59.420 Like I literally like didn't even like go fucking crazy screaming. I was just like there's no fucking way this is happening 19:01.580 --> 19:06.660 Like what is fucking going on like how yeah, okay the Joker laugh 19:07.500 --> 19:09.460 I do look so stupid 19:09.460 --> 19:11.660 I actually look so stupid in that. 19:11.660 --> 19:14.620 And then of course, every single like wow head, 19:14.620 --> 19:19.460 my own fucking editors, everyone just uses the Joker face 19:19.460 --> 19:20.940 as like the thumbnail. 19:22.300 --> 19:24.020 I don't know how that was a thing. 20:09.460 --> 20:18.020 All right, hello 20:21.540 --> 20:28.580 Actually, I should eat some more of this rice. I got that panda 20:28.580 --> 20:54.820 the next race that is not good do not do not gamble like at all 20:54.820 --> 21:01.500 Panda Express, Beijing beef is this. 21:01.500 --> 21:03.740 No, it's just trash. 21:03.740 --> 21:11.020 So tier list of Panda Express flavors. 21:11.020 --> 21:12.340 And this is objective, by the way. 21:15.740 --> 21:18.580 Double S tier at the very top. 21:18.580 --> 21:20.260 And they only have this very rarely. 21:20.260 --> 21:22.460 I think they just got rid of it actually recently. 21:22.460 --> 21:24.300 It's like a seasonal thing. 21:24.300 --> 21:27.560 The hot orange chicken, the like orange chicken, 21:27.560 --> 21:29.480 cause like obviously orange chicken is super goaded, 21:29.480 --> 21:31.000 but like the orange chicken, 21:31.000 --> 21:33.960 but also it's like way fucking hotter. 21:35.120 --> 21:36.960 That shit is goaded. 21:36.960 --> 21:40.200 All right, just under that is the sweet, 21:40.200 --> 21:42.480 the dynamite sweet and sour chicken. 21:42.480 --> 21:44.800 It's also, I mean, I guess if you don't like spicy food, 21:44.800 --> 21:45.640 you wouldn't agree with this, 21:45.640 --> 21:46.920 but this is an objective list. 21:46.920 --> 21:47.940 It's not subjective. 21:50.840 --> 21:54.280 It is, yeah, the dynamite sweet and sour 21:54.280 --> 22:03.040 goes crazy. And then after that, there is the regular orange chicken. And then after that 22:03.040 --> 22:11.560 is the honey walnut shrimp. And then everything else under that is just mid. Or it's fine, 22:11.560 --> 22:20.320 but it's not as good as those. Are you still at the event? Yeah, I think everyone else 22:20.320 --> 22:27.320 actually a lot of our Raiders are actually staying at an Airbnb until BlizzCon starts. 22:44.320 --> 22:48.320 I think some people are flying home and then flying back, but some people are just actually staying here. 22:48.320 --> 22:55.580 here but no one's at the facility except for me and that's purely because I have 22:55.580 --> 22:59.140 been too lazy to move my setup back to my house yet and I'm probably going to do 22:59.140 --> 23:05.260 that when they make me or or when I get tired of having to drive over here but I 23:05.260 --> 23:08.420 live 10 minutes from here so 23:18.320 --> 23:36.160 Just perma live there dude. I mean low key if they would let me keep my streaming setup 23:36.160 --> 23:41.320 here I actually would drive over here to stream because it also means I could get like lunch 23:41.320 --> 24:00.060 and dinner every day, which sounds fucking incredible. 24:11.320 --> 24:13.380 you 24:41.320 --> 24:43.380 you 25:11.320 --> 25:13.380 you 25:41.320 --> 25:43.380 you 26:11.320 --> 26:13.380 you 26:41.320 --> 27:08.280 I think the more and more you win, you can do that. 27:08.280 --> 27:15.640 Now, is it nice that you were still able to win even in a scenario where you feel like 27:15.640 --> 27:17.080 you were nowhere near your best? 27:17.080 --> 27:21.360 Obviously, yes, but it's fucking terrifying. 27:21.360 --> 27:25.760 It would feel so bad to lose and no, it's because you basically didn't really try as 27:25.760 --> 27:28.880 hard in a way. 27:28.880 --> 27:33.160 You talk about the worst ways to lose, it's like you barely lose, you get shit on, 27:33.160 --> 27:34.160 whatever. 27:34.160 --> 27:38.320 The best way to lose is like you lose by a decent amount, 27:38.320 --> 27:41.000 but you know you tried your best and someone was just better than you. 27:41.000 --> 27:42.920 You can kind of just go home at the end of the day after that. 27:42.920 --> 27:45.720 Like I tried, we tried our best, someone was better, all good. 27:45.720 --> 27:48.200 And then like just a little bit worse than that is like, 27:48.200 --> 27:50.000 you played really well, but you barely lost. 27:50.000 --> 27:55.320 Because then when that happens, you start nitpicking every single decision 27:55.320 --> 27:59.040 that you made, and because like it could have just been this one thing, you know? 27:59.040 --> 28:02.040 And then there's like the really bad ones, 28:02.040 --> 28:07.040 Which is, we lost and it's because we didn't like, 28:07.160 --> 28:10.160 clearly did not do up to our normal standard. 28:10.160 --> 28:11.240 And like now that's like, 28:11.240 --> 28:12.800 you're just asking questions about that forever. 28:12.800 --> 28:14.840 And somewhere down there by the way is winning 28:14.840 --> 28:16.120 but also playing like shit. 28:16.120 --> 28:18.960 Like I know winning is awesome. 28:18.960 --> 28:22.920 But like, it was just fucking like embarrassing, 28:22.920 --> 28:24.880 you know, like this whole tier. 28:24.880 --> 28:27.640 Like I feel like, if you were just watching our guild, 28:27.640 --> 28:29.360 it just wasn't even like watching the same thing. 28:29.360 --> 28:30.520 It looked like you were watching us 28:30.520 --> 28:33.960 you like wash the fuck up until like the last two days. 28:33.960 --> 28:36.800 And while it is true that because streaming in the race 28:36.800 --> 28:39.600 is like you kind of just get a bunch of information for free 28:39.600 --> 28:42.600 you kind of can just fuck around for the entire race 28:42.600 --> 28:44.660 until the last two days lock in and win 28:44.660 --> 28:47.080 as clear evidence by this tier. 28:49.080 --> 28:52.600 But it's still like terrifying and it also isn't fun. 28:52.600 --> 28:55.600 And I feel like the players, it's not fun for anyone. 28:55.600 --> 28:57.280 It was really not fun for me. 28:57.280 --> 29:01.360 So, obviously gonna try to fix that going forward. 29:01.360 --> 29:02.960 I guess it's kinda nice to win 29:02.960 --> 29:07.960 with such clear problems that you can fix, you know? 29:07.960 --> 29:09.040 But I've said that before 29:09.040 --> 29:10.940 and then we ended up still in this position. 29:10.940 --> 29:15.940 So, hopefully it's not gonna take us losing a race 29:16.100 --> 29:17.880 to like actually give a fuck 29:17.880 --> 29:19.600 and try as hard as we possibly can. 29:19.600 --> 29:21.760 And by the way, I'm not pushing that on to anyone else. 29:21.760 --> 29:23.840 That is like absolutely me, bro. 29:23.840 --> 29:25.800 Like I feel like last year, 29:25.800 --> 29:33.280 I just went AFK basically after we won and we did some farm re-clears and then I 29:33.280 --> 29:38.960 showed up for PTR testing basically. Our PTR testing was fucking average and 29:38.960 --> 29:44.640 then AFK'd again until this fucking season came out and that's and it 29:44.640 --> 29:48.440 turns out when you do stuff like that you end up looking like we did in this 29:48.440 --> 29:55.760 tier you know so hopefully it's not going to take us losing for us to like 29:55.760 --> 29:58.800 actually like really really try for this because obviously we were getting paid 29:58.800 --> 30:02.000 to do it. 30:18.440 --> 30:20.500 you 30:48.440 --> 30:50.500 you 31:18.440 --> 31:20.500 you 31:48.440 --> 31:50.500 you 32:18.440 --> 32:20.500 you 32:48.440 --> 33:02.720 People are calling me a crybaby bitch. 33:02.720 --> 33:07.000 I start to feel really like a crybaby bitch. 33:07.000 --> 33:08.760 And that feels terrible. 33:08.760 --> 33:13.000 But with Skype, he, I guess, just doesn't give a fuck. 33:13.000 --> 33:17.200 He's just gonna fucking, he's just gonna keep slamming it. 33:17.200 --> 33:23.320 I honestly have tremendous respect for that because he just doesn't give a fuck what any 33:23.320 --> 33:24.320 of you all think. 33:24.320 --> 33:27.080 He's just going to say it. 33:27.080 --> 33:28.840 So yeah, I don't know. 33:28.840 --> 33:31.040 I mean, I felt that way after tears for sure. 33:31.040 --> 33:35.680 There are tears that we lost that I 100% think if Blizzard had their act together, we would 33:35.680 --> 33:36.680 have won. 33:36.680 --> 33:39.200 And the number one by far is Eternal Palace. 33:39.200 --> 33:43.400 I will go to my grave thinking that the wrong guild won that race, right? 33:43.400 --> 33:46.400 Stripe seems like he will go to his grave thinking the wrong guild won this race. 33:46.400 --> 33:48.520 I understand that feeling. 33:48.520 --> 33:52.940 I'm just, I'm like too soft to just like fight a thousand 33:52.940 --> 33:55.080 EU fans on Twitter about it. 33:55.080 --> 33:56.400 You know what I mean? 33:56.400 --> 33:59.160 I'm not, it's a lot to deal with, man. 34:02.080 --> 34:06.520 But, yeah, and also I feel like a lot of NA fans 34:06.520 --> 34:08.720 are like kind of having the wrong response. 34:08.720 --> 34:09.960 And maybe this is my fault too, 34:09.960 --> 34:11.920 even though it was happening before I did this. 34:11.920 --> 34:13.360 But I tweeted yesterday. 34:13.360 --> 34:15.120 I said, someone was like, yeah, okay, 34:15.120 --> 34:20.720 You guys had the bug too, but it didn't like ruin any of your kill poles and I just said get just get out of the pool 34:20.720 --> 34:29.120 Bro, that was basically just like memeing on a like a reply guy basically just going for some quick like gif aura farming points 34:29.960 --> 34:31.760 but 34:31.760 --> 34:34.960 If I'm echo and I read that I'm pissed and here's why because 34:35.520 --> 34:38.500 You're still unlucky like like if you were getting it 34:38.500 --> 34:40.760 Let's just say two guilds had the same meta poles in the last phase 34:40.760 --> 34:44.160 They had more way more than us past like the third circles and 34:44.800 --> 34:48.160 One guild was even let's just say the bug could have happened on both 34:48.160 --> 34:52.800 But it actually we were both doing the same strat and it just happened to them more or something 34:52.800 --> 34:54.880 And we were all going in the pool where it kills you 34:55.480 --> 35:00.080 That's still unlucky as fucking you would be mad about Blizzard because you do not expect bugs to randomly happen 35:00.080 --> 35:03.640 also another thing is is people are implying that them jumping into the pool is like 35:03.760 --> 35:08.600 Cheasing or exploiting the boss and I think the term exploit has a lot of nuance in this game and 35:08.600 --> 35:15.600 And I don't think it's really fair to just say like first of all Blizzard literally clarified it wasn't an exploit like they were working on fixing it 35:15.600 --> 35:19.200 But they said you can keep doing it which by the way that was kind of weird response by Blizzard will get into that later 35:19.200 --> 35:21.800 But like they did not consider that an exploit right? 35:22.800 --> 35:27.480 So like I think all the TOS andes the most insufferable people in World Warcraft by the way 35:27.520 --> 35:32.960 They like are they're like powered down at their in their house like they aren't just not plugged into the wall 35:32.960 --> 35:37.760 for the most of the year and then like someone plugs them in as soon as anything 35:37.760 --> 35:41.560 remotely exploity happens and then they start quoting paragraphs from the terms 35:41.560 --> 35:45.560 of service about like how anyone that exploits anything for any reason 35:45.560 --> 35:50.160 regardless of how severe it is to just instantly get banned forever and those 35:50.160 --> 35:54.960 people I think got plugged in before this happened so they were like super 35:54.960 --> 35:57.560 up in arms about it but like there's nothing wrong with doing that strat 35:57.560 --> 35:59.560 Like you can say 35:59.560 --> 36:02.200 That okay if they happen to not do that strat 36:02.520 --> 36:06.360 Because they didn't know about the bug yet and instead they stayed on the platform and they were still wiping to it 36:06.360 --> 36:09.820 They weren't wiping to it like it's still bullshit that it happened to them there 36:09.820 --> 36:15.320 And if it did actually ruin and a kill poll or what could have been a kill poll that is bullshit 36:15.320 --> 36:20.680 You would be mad about it and you would be thinking about that for the rest of your life because we like really care about these races, right? 36:20.680 --> 36:25.360 I would do the exact same thing like just saying like oh you should have gotten out of the pool 36:25.360 --> 36:30.120 Dude, this is so fast-paced you think you could lose at any moment like the casual fans of this race or like dude 36:30.120 --> 36:35.760 I liquid that 30% like this is it like I promise you and we were awake echoed new that they could lose in any moment because this is 36:35.880 --> 36:38.400 Easily a boss where you could just live to the end of the fight and it dies, right? 36:38.520 --> 36:44.320 So in that moment, it's really hard even though you have analysts and stuff you guys always mention that it's really hard to like 36:44.440 --> 36:47.560 Fully diagnose the bug and see what's happening, especially because it's in the pool 36:47.560 --> 36:51.440 You have to like okay did they fix it our waves hitting us now because it's just dying to a wave, right? 36:51.440 --> 36:53.440 It's the same spell 36:53.440 --> 36:56.640 So, it's hard to be like, okay, well, this isn't working and let's change our strat 36:56.640 --> 36:57.640 because maybe we could deal with it. 36:57.640 --> 37:04.040 Like, I think that's kind of a revisionist history, like, not fair thing to them because, 37:04.040 --> 37:05.680 like, I don't think we would have done that either. 37:05.680 --> 37:08.400 Like, I think we would have just been, like, it bugged or something and next pull it 37:08.400 --> 37:09.400 won't bug. 37:09.400 --> 37:14.680 It seemed like it happened about 25% of their P3s and we only had four total late P3s 37:14.680 --> 37:17.480 on the day we killed it and it happened on one of our pulls. 37:17.480 --> 37:20.440 So, 25% sounds about the likelihood that it would happen. 37:20.440 --> 37:21.880 I also have a fear about how it happens, 37:21.880 --> 37:25.160 but I'm not gonna bore you with that 37:25.160 --> 37:26.760 because it's just like some technical thing 37:26.760 --> 37:27.720 about how the mechanic works 37:27.720 --> 37:30.400 and I don't think most of you care about that. 37:30.400 --> 37:33.720 They killed it right after not using the scuba strat though. 37:33.720 --> 37:34.880 Yeah, but that doesn't have to do with the bug. 37:34.880 --> 37:36.880 Like, okay, let's say they never did the scuba strat 37:36.880 --> 37:38.400 and they still died to the bug a couple of times 37:38.400 --> 37:40.000 or something, it's the same thing, right? 37:40.000 --> 37:41.680 I guess it makes it like slightly easier to deal with, 37:41.680 --> 37:43.440 but I feel like some people are saying, 37:43.440 --> 37:44.920 well, the bug was there 37:44.920 --> 37:46.320 and if you hadn't have done this strat, 37:46.320 --> 37:47.680 it wouldn't have affected you as much. 37:47.680 --> 37:49.000 So you messed up by doing the strat. 37:49.000 --> 37:50.280 But when they made that decision, 37:50.280 --> 37:52.440 There was no way to know that. 37:52.440 --> 37:55.600 And people are blaming them when they should be blaming Blizzard. 37:55.600 --> 37:57.280 It's absolutely some bullshit by Blizzard. 37:57.280 --> 38:02.880 Also, this is an all-time bad quality of design tier for Blizzard. 38:02.880 --> 38:07.360 It is genuinely worrying for the future of the race. 38:07.360 --> 38:09.000 I don't know about the rest of the patch, 38:09.000 --> 38:11.560 but the raid in particular was like, 38:11.560 --> 38:15.120 it feels like we went back in time kind of shit. 38:15.120 --> 38:16.920 So I think you guys should give them a little grace. 38:16.920 --> 38:19.920 I wouldn't say that I would be faring much better. 38:19.920 --> 38:22.920 I definitely wouldn't be PVPing everyone on Twitter 38:22.920 --> 38:26.080 because I'm just softer than Skype. 38:26.080 --> 38:28.520 I just care more about what people think about me 38:28.520 --> 38:30.360 and if everyone called me a crybaby bitch, 38:30.360 --> 38:31.920 I would feel like a crybaby bitch 38:31.920 --> 38:33.480 and everyone's calling him a crybaby bitch 38:33.480 --> 38:34.960 and he doesn't give a fuck. 38:35.960 --> 38:38.160 Which is honestly fucking beast mode. 38:39.280 --> 38:42.080 But yeah, like I would feel very similarly 38:42.080 --> 38:44.920 our whole Guildwood and truly, 38:44.920 --> 38:46.640 if they felt like they lost this tier due to bugs, 38:46.640 --> 38:47.760 I mean that is fucking bullshit 38:47.760 --> 38:48.800 and that would feel really bad. 38:48.800 --> 38:53.400 So I think like there's just there's way too many stupid replies to them. 38:53.440 --> 38:55.920 There's way too many replies that are like, oh, well, you should have done this. 38:55.920 --> 38:58.920 And they're just by people who know absolutely fucking nothing about how this works. 38:59.280 --> 39:00.360 They're like, oh, they should have done this. 39:00.360 --> 39:01.160 Well, you should have done that strat. 39:01.160 --> 39:02.440 Well, of course, you guys are trying to cheese it. 39:02.440 --> 39:05.160 Anyone, literally anyone that said you guys shouldn't have tried to 39:05.160 --> 39:07.480 cheese the boss, total fucking dumb ass, by the way. 39:07.680 --> 39:08.960 And that's like a litmus test. 39:09.360 --> 39:10.720 I just, you can know that right now. 39:11.080 --> 39:16.480 Um, but like the, yeah, it's a, just a lot of really, really bad takes 39:16.560 --> 39:18.320 about their situation at the end. 39:18.800 --> 39:26.800 But there's also some bad takes going on as well that don't have to do with that, but anything regarding to the bug is like objectively that really fucking sucks for them, so. 39:26.800 --> 39:45.640 Max, we did a poll count prediction game in our wow guild. 39:45.640 --> 39:48.440 How many polls did you guys get at the end? 39:48.440 --> 39:53.280 Warcraft logs says 311, Raid Oreos says 307, and Wowhead 306. 39:53.280 --> 39:54.920 Literally no clue. 39:54.920 --> 39:55.920 No idea. 39:55.920 --> 40:03.760 I'm assuming what that is is like they basically have cutoffs on the pull of like when something 40:03.760 --> 40:05.680 is counted as a wipe. 40:05.680 --> 40:16.480 Like for example what happened way too much this year actually is we basically someone 40:16.480 --> 40:20.120 would just like pull the boss and we would slowly wipe over 30 seconds. 40:20.120 --> 40:24.440 And I think like some things count that a wipe and it's hard for them to do that 40:24.440 --> 40:29.520 because they have, there are bosses where wiping in 30 seconds 40:29.520 --> 40:30.840 could be completely legitimate. 40:30.840 --> 40:32.320 And bosses with that would never be the case. 40:32.320 --> 40:33.720 And I think it's kind of hard to determine 40:33.720 --> 40:35.320 whether it was actually a wiper or not. 40:38.840 --> 40:40.840 Max, the raid was quite easy. 40:40.840 --> 40:43.560 The pull count was so low. 40:43.560 --> 40:45.280 Pull count, not a good thing to look at for that, 40:45.280 --> 40:46.880 but for difficulty. 40:46.880 --> 40:49.080 But yeah. 40:49.080 --> 40:52.280 I mean, it's hard too because we did so much stuff 40:52.280 --> 40:54.280 in week two and week three gear. 40:54.280 --> 41:04.280 Could Cizerak and Twinfangs have racked up a lot more attempts had we fought them in the week that they were supposed to be fought at, but we just didn't get the splits instead? 41:04.280 --> 41:12.280 Same thing with Coiled Alter. Like how hard would it have been if we were like minus 2 or 3 eye level or something? 41:12.280 --> 41:14.280 Like it would have been fucking nuts, right? 41:14.280 --> 41:18.280 A lot more optimization needed. 41:24.280 --> 41:37.480 Max, thoughts on bringing heroic week back? 41:37.480 --> 41:43.560 I mean, okay, I'm a fan of it, but I think it might be a little worse than you guys think. 41:43.560 --> 41:48.080 Can you guys imagine how hard this would hit in parentheses, not hard? 41:48.080 --> 41:51.040 Where we do a week of heroic week, you guys are finally ready for mythic, and then we 41:51.040 --> 41:55.120 do a reek of mythic splits, and then we don't start progression until a week later. 41:55.120 --> 41:57.520 I feel like that combo would go crazy. 41:57.520 --> 42:03.920 Um, yeah, I really hope mythic splits don't become a thing in the future. 42:03.920 --> 42:05.120 I think it's certainly possible. 42:05.120 --> 42:11.800 If you go back and look at previous raids, I think every tier where in the first week 42:11.800 --> 42:16.840 mythic was available, you were either able to get to the second to last boss or meaningfully 42:16.840 --> 42:19.360 progress it or kill it. 42:19.360 --> 42:22.640 I think it would have been correct to not do myth exploits. 42:22.640 --> 42:26.160 However, in any tier where you only kill like four or five 42:26.160 --> 42:28.440 or six bosses in the first reset, 42:30.720 --> 42:33.200 and you barely even start on the second to last boss, 42:33.200 --> 42:34.480 I think in hindsight, 42:34.480 --> 42:36.840 it would have been better to do myth exploits maybe. 42:36.840 --> 42:38.600 However, there's one huge caveat. 42:38.600 --> 42:41.480 In past tiers, you didn't have this coin thing. 42:41.480 --> 42:45.520 Coins existing majorly enables this myth exploit thing 42:45.520 --> 42:49.120 because you don't need to kill late bosses in the tier 42:49.120 --> 42:51.760 to get good gear, you can just coin it the week after, 42:51.760 --> 42:53.960 which is, yeah, I don't know. 42:53.960 --> 42:57.680 I will say, to me, if the future of the race 42:57.680 --> 43:00.080 becomes in the first week, you're just planning 43:00.080 --> 43:01.720 for mythic splitting from the very beginning, 43:01.720 --> 43:04.360 that would be one of the absolute worst things 43:04.360 --> 43:06.820 that could happen, and I hope that does not happen 43:06.820 --> 43:08.960 for our sake and viewership's sake. 43:11.640 --> 43:13.840 But it's kind of on Blizzard a little bit, 43:13.840 --> 43:17.240 but also, for example, if coins are really good 43:17.240 --> 43:20.360 for the majority of the game, like everyone likes coins, 43:20.360 --> 43:23.800 then like why would they change that just for the race? 43:23.800 --> 43:27.680 I do have a small bit of copium or hopium maybe 43:28.680 --> 43:33.680 that Blizzard might look at this splits thing. 43:35.900 --> 43:37.840 And why they haven't before is it's been 43:37.840 --> 43:39.560 like a high level gameplay problem, 43:39.560 --> 43:42.200 but as every single, as every tier goes on, 43:42.200 --> 43:45.680 splits are more and more infecting the normal 43:45.680 --> 43:50.760 like weekly gameplay of like Raid Guilds that are way below a rank where you think that would affect them. 43:52.520 --> 44:04.280 And that to me would maybe, if that starts affecting enough people, I think Blizzard maybe look at making that less valuable somehow or, and I don't even know how the fuck you would do this, by the way, and let's not even, we're not doing that today. 44:05.120 --> 44:11.960 Not on this, it's a Saturday, we are not giving our takes on how they can fix splits because I promise you it's flawed or you're wrong. 44:11.960 --> 44:25.960 But if Blizzard could ever fix that, maybe this is like the time where they could actually look into it because it's just like actually affecting the daily life of the wild player that is a lot lower ranked than you think. 44:25.960 --> 44:40.160 think. And then people are posting their takes. Okay. What about these fucking dog shit add-ons 44:40.160 --> 44:44.300 and arrows showing where to go is just weak or is right? I mean, dude, we could do an entire 44:44.300 --> 44:50.280 stream on that. The add-on shit was even worse this tier, man. Like, okay, also, like, how 44:50.280 --> 44:55.960 How can you, with a straight face, say you're designing raids without add-on solutions when 44:55.960 --> 45:03.380 you make Twin Fangs kicks or the Coiled Altar kick adds that are alive for like a full minute 45:03.380 --> 45:05.140 with like a detailed kick rotation? 45:05.140 --> 45:09.860 Like, bro, it would be so much fucking harder if you didn't have that stuff. 45:09.860 --> 45:14.820 And then on top of that, you have like fucking arrows pointing you where to go on Cizerak 45:14.820 --> 45:22.460 And on on it like it's it legit is like the old like exorcist Gul'dan like weak aura stuff like just 45:23.220 --> 45:25.220 Just complete nonsense, right? 45:25.580 --> 45:27.580 I 45:28.580 --> 45:33.620 Am really happy that our add-on guy is Jesus like actually Jesus Christ. He is him 45:34.660 --> 45:35.900 He just 45:35.900 --> 45:40.860 The only time he talks is he's like I know why that went wrong. I'll fix it reload less than 10 seconds 45:40.860 --> 45:46.860 It's fixed or like hey, can you make this? Yeah sure. I'll work on it next poll. It's ready like just actual legit real Jesus 45:48.220 --> 45:50.980 But even then it's still just 45:52.980 --> 45:55.260 It's just so frustrating man 45:55.740 --> 46:00.660 That it's even such a thing cuz like you just can't even I may be like if you're gonna give Blizzard some credit 46:00.660 --> 46:05.300 You'd be like, okay. Well, they're gonna run into a boss like let's say you couldn't possibly make a kick out on anymore 46:05.300 --> 46:07.900 And then you had to do a boss like Twin Fangs 46:07.900 --> 46:12.260 obviously nerf. Well, I mean, you can do without on Twin Fangs. We did it on PTR, actually. 46:12.260 --> 46:16.500 We tested Natty Waze, which was like, you whisper the person in front of you and ping 46:16.500 --> 46:25.900 their character in your kick macro. But that's like so much fucking harder, by the way. But 46:25.900 --> 46:29.340 even on like Coil Valter, like just, you would, you would have to wipe to a kick 46:29.340 --> 46:32.140 mechanic and then they'd have to nerf it and then they'd learn going forward what 46:32.140 --> 46:34.940 kind of kick mechanics are too hard without add-ons. And they just haven't run into 46:34.940 --> 46:44.620 that yet because we can still make them. 46:44.620 --> 46:48.100 Max was ulotech possible to kill week two? 46:48.100 --> 46:51.700 Uh possible probably but like way fucking harder. 46:51.700 --> 47:02.140 Um like to me doing p2 in time without that extra reset of gear would be like fucking 47:02.140 --> 47:07.240 Insanely hard like it would be so hard, but yeah, probably 47:25.000 --> 47:29.280 Do you think using a private tournament realm? Oh my god the stream just started how long has it been? 47:29.280 --> 47:32.920 45 minutes. We're going for a speedrun. 47:32.920 --> 47:40.400 Did it feel good to win when you made a decision to gearless characters? 47:40.400 --> 47:44.240 I guess, did it feel good to win? Answer that question, yes. 47:44.240 --> 47:47.120 When you made a decision to gearless characters? 47:47.120 --> 47:49.120 I think the less characters thing felt really bad. 47:49.120 --> 47:50.640 Like I'm going to be completely honest with you. 47:50.640 --> 47:55.280 When we were in the middle of week two and we were just fighting bosses that were way 47:55.280 --> 47:58.800 harder than other guilds because we were doing them minus a couple eye level. 47:58.800 --> 48:02.200 We were also being very greedy with what we sent and we probably should have sent earlier 48:02.400 --> 48:06.140 Would have saved us some time on coiled altar for sure, but like I 48:06.920 --> 48:13.780 Think they were all thinking like man two more extra characters going into this tier would have fucking made me feel way better right now. I 48:14.560 --> 48:18.440 So I don't know exactly. I don't know if it really felt great to do that 48:18.440 --> 48:22.140 I still it would be so great the only that feels bad is that you have less characters than other guild 48:22.160 --> 48:28.300 But the thing is is every guild wants to play less characters. So what I'm saying is we need to all make less characters 48:28.300 --> 48:35.180 I don't know why this can't happen other guild leaders and and brethren. Let's just make like guys 48:35.180 --> 48:38.100 Let's just make ten characters, right? Like why fucking not? 48:39.660 --> 48:45.180 It would be amazing just make ten guys do ten splits and and if the bosses are too hard 48:45.180 --> 48:47.180 They'll nerf them to whatever gear we have 48:48.180 --> 48:50.180 It makes this so much better for all of us 48:54.220 --> 48:56.220 Anyways that 48:58.300 --> 49:02.460 What was the other thing you asked? 49:02.460 --> 49:05.140 Is this potentially affecting the amount of characters you're rolling into next year? 49:05.140 --> 49:06.860 I don't know how many characters you're doing next year. 49:06.860 --> 49:11.700 Ideally we have very few, and so does every other guild, but I can promise you after doing 49:11.700 --> 49:15.380 one tier of running less characters than your opponents, there's a reason we haven't 49:15.380 --> 49:18.540 done that before, and it feels really, really fucking bad. 49:18.540 --> 49:23.540 It feels really, really bad, man. 49:23.540 --> 49:25.980 Ten is already so much. 49:25.980 --> 49:31.900 Well, I mean, okay, I still think you need a decent amount of characters because you still need to like have items like no 49:31.900 --> 49:34.620 No, we're used to like really geared characters now 49:34.620 --> 49:40.420 Did really suck to go into a tier doing zero splits and like literally everyone's character is complete and total dog shit 49:40.420 --> 49:42.420 Like no one even wants to play a dog shit guy 49:42.460 --> 49:48.000 So like you'd want to have enough splits to at least feel like you're geared like you'd have less like amazing items off 49:48.000 --> 49:51.920 The last two bosses, but as long as that was true across all the guilds is chill, you know 49:56.980 --> 49:58.980 Are you eating and sleeping now that the race is over? 49:58.980 --> 50:00.980 Yeah, I had a big ass sleep last night. 50:02.980 --> 50:04.980 What do you think about the Echo Twitter crash house? I already answered that. 50:25.980 --> 50:27.980 What are you going to do an unbanned requestering? 50:35.100 --> 50:41.100 Do you think it's weird Blizzard didn't give an ETA on the pool strat fix and said you can both do it while the fix wasn't live? 50:41.420 --> 50:45.740 No, because I think that's just they were doing with whatever they could like they basically had a talk in the office 50:45.740 --> 50:48.540 And they're like do we want this to be a way people kill the boss and they're like no 50:49.340 --> 50:55.460 So they decided to fix it which again is an interesting choice to make because let's just say this happened 50:55.980 --> 50:57.680 Let's say 50:57.680 --> 50:59.680 they fixed the pool strat and 51:00.240 --> 51:06.720 Non pool strat was much harder and let's say it took our guilds another like two hours to kill the boss like something throughout the tier 51:06.720 --> 51:08.720 It happened to where everyone was two hours later 51:09.280 --> 51:10.160 and 51:10.160 --> 51:15.520 Then like echoes going in the pool while we learned the non pool way because they say like okay 51:15.520 --> 51:18.360 You can kill it like this and it would be a totally correct decision for echo 51:18.360 --> 51:21.680 Or just keep trying to do it because they could kill it any pole and then imagine they fix it 51:21.680 --> 51:24.660 that after Echo hasn't done the other way 51:24.660 --> 51:26.080 and then now we easily win 51:26.080 --> 51:28.080 because we have multiple reps doing it the other way 51:28.080 --> 51:30.760 or something, that would feel really shitty. 51:30.760 --> 51:32.640 There's a reason when they do race world first nerfs, 51:32.640 --> 51:35.840 they try not to disadvantage any team that has like, 51:35.840 --> 51:37.840 for example, if there's a team that's consistently 51:37.840 --> 51:39.840 through P2 or something, 51:39.840 --> 51:41.040 they're not gonna nerf P2 51:41.040 --> 51:42.720 if the other guilds aren't at that point. 51:42.720 --> 51:45.160 They usually do nerfs that will about equally affect 51:45.160 --> 51:46.840 every guild based on how many times they've pulled 51:46.840 --> 51:48.920 the boss or stuff like that. 51:48.920 --> 51:49.800 Like Tindral Seeds. 51:49.800 --> 51:56.240 Tendril seeds were the most unbelievably overtuned thing of all time, and should have been nerfed from the beginning. 51:56.240 --> 52:05.920 But because us and Ekko were able to get through them kinda, they couldn't really nerf it, because if one guild was better than the other guild out of it, that would like affect competitive integrity. 52:05.920 --> 52:07.320 So like that's how they do nerfs, right? 52:07.880 --> 52:09.840 I think this one was kind of on the line. 52:10.400 --> 52:19.720 Like, the other way to do it was really easy, but I could definitely see a scenario where they nerf it after Ekko dumps a bunch of time into it, and then we don't, because we just woke up later. 52:19.800 --> 52:24.080 And then they, they like, I don't know, I can see that have been really weird, right? 52:24.080 --> 52:27.000 Um, and then yeah, usually, I mean, what was the exact thing? 52:28.320 --> 52:30.960 We want to give advance notice that we're working on a hotfix to allow 52:30.960 --> 52:35.320 caustic waves to hit players in the water surrounding Ulotec. 52:35.320 --> 52:35.840 Okay. 52:35.840 --> 52:40.080 So, I mean, they just posted that because they're letting you know they're doing it. 52:40.080 --> 52:43.200 The alternative to that, because they don't have it ready yet. 52:43.200 --> 52:44.320 They're not waiting to put it in. 52:44.320 --> 52:46.360 They're trying to make the hotfix work. 52:46.360 --> 52:56.360 So, yeah, I don't know, it'd be a weirder if they didn't post it, and then they just did it live. 52:56.360 --> 52:59.360 They were like, this has now been hotfixed. I feel like the advance notice is nice. 53:17.160 --> 53:20.560 Max what would have happened to the morale if you lost they would have been worse 53:26.400 --> 53:30.980 But I don't think it would have hit us like a truck because I feel like we were playing I 53:32.000 --> 53:34.500 Feel like the the whole tier people were like dude 53:34.500 --> 53:36.800 We could definitely lose this race like we are not playing well at all 53:36.800 --> 53:39.960 I feel like we never really talked about that but that had to be what everyone was thinking 53:40.560 --> 53:44.240 Like I had already like kind of accepted losing this race because like during the race 53:44.240 --> 53:47.560 something like bro we were so fucking complacent we absolutely deserve to lose 53:47.560 --> 53:51.040 this race and then so if it happened I would have been like that makes sense 53:51.040 --> 53:59.960 you know he said mural not morale yeah I know but I just assumed it was like 53:59.960 --> 54:05.160 miss Bell or something I could answer the mural version of the question but 54:05.160 --> 54:07.160 Or the yeah, I don't know. I 54:12.440 --> 54:17.120 Just love reading X after someone it's called Twitter after someone wins the race world first 54:17.320 --> 54:20.040 Fanboys on both sides have the largest amount of brain rot. Yeah 54:20.040 --> 54:25.760 I mean, I just don't even usually say anything because it's just you're just gonna get the worst takes from the dumbest people 54:27.000 --> 54:30.600 But again, Skype is a beast. He's he just doesn't care 54:30.600 --> 54:35.280 He'll fight them all day, which is really really like not even I'm not even meaning. It's very admirable 54:35.840 --> 54:40.680 Like I fucking wish that was me. I wish I just could PvP them all day and not care about it 54:50.640 --> 54:54.720 Max if we had heroic week would have made it felt better having less characters 54:54.720 --> 54:58.520 It would have felt significantly worse if there was a heroic week if we had less characters 55:00.600 --> 55:02.600 I 55:11.240 --> 55:16.040 Preach saying that when you guys did it in less polls was sad. I have no idea what Preach said, but 55:16.920 --> 55:20.320 The less polls thing is kind of a meme like we were like EU this year 55:20.320 --> 55:25.240 Like we literally just woke up every day and just fucking stole what they were doing because we were playing like dog shit the whole race 55:25.240 --> 55:27.120 We didn't like do anything on our own bro 55:27.120 --> 55:32.720 We literally just woke up and had to do whatever they were doing every day. It was like a morning ritual 55:33.880 --> 55:40.200 So the reason we had less poles is because whenever you're doing that you just spend less poles because they freaking shit out for you 55:41.600 --> 55:47.180 Which is also why playing bad is like kind of okay as long as it's not in the last couple days even though it feels really bad 55:57.120 --> 56:04.240 Max, do you think if they didn't try the cheese strat, they would have won? 56:04.240 --> 56:05.240 I'm not sure. 56:05.240 --> 56:07.860 They had a lot of pulls with the cheese strat where they were just off the damage or had 56:07.860 --> 56:10.880 deaths and stuff, which probably would have been the case if they also stayed on the 56:10.880 --> 56:13.320 platform. 56:13.320 --> 56:22.200 But knowing how the bugs worked, it's very retroactive thinking or hindsight thinking. 56:22.200 --> 56:25.480 Like, yeah, I mean, for example, if two people randomly 56:25.480 --> 56:27.440 get a spread circle that weren't expecting one 56:27.440 --> 56:29.560 and you're not all sitting in the lava, 56:29.560 --> 56:32.660 you would just like spread them out and you would live. 56:32.660 --> 56:35.960 But like, I feel like that's one of the very bad takes 56:35.960 --> 56:38.120 NA fans are giving Scrype, which I mean, 56:38.120 --> 56:40.360 I do expect people to give Scrype not the benefit 56:40.360 --> 56:42.320 of the doubt because he's putting himself in a situation 56:42.320 --> 56:44.960 where people are going to think that he is like, 56:44.960 --> 56:46.040 you know, being a crybaby, 56:46.040 --> 56:47.880 so they're just gonna like keep owning him. 56:47.880 --> 56:51.040 But like that part is kind of stupid, 56:51.040 --> 56:53.920 like well you could have just done this other strat the whole time it would 56:53.920 --> 56:56.240 have happened but like when they made that decision there was no way to know 56:56.240 --> 56:59.840 that information and either those people know that and don't care or they 56:59.840 --> 57:04.880 don't know that and are just saying things but it's really frustrating either way. 57:13.280 --> 57:18.800 Do you expect mythic splits next here? Right now with no changes to the loot 57:18.800 --> 57:25.200 system. I think it just kind of depends. Like this tier, the reason everyone did mythic splits was 57:25.200 --> 57:30.400 because we got done with splits like on the weekend instead of like Thursday night or Friday morning. 57:30.400 --> 57:34.880 If they make a raid that doesn't take as long to clear with splits and we're done with them by 57:34.880 --> 57:41.040 Friday again, I'm honestly it's gonna be pretty hard to make the decision of fully 57:41.040 --> 57:44.320 committing mythic splits when you have like four days left in the walkout honestly. 57:48.800 --> 57:59.560 Max, you were saying pre-raid that two target cleave classes are going to pop off. 57:59.560 --> 58:00.560 That seems mostly correct. 58:00.560 --> 58:03.640 Did any spec or class miss the mark from where you expected it in the race? 58:03.640 --> 58:05.360 Yeah, arms warrior. 58:05.360 --> 58:07.280 Arms warrior was not nearly as good as we thought it was going to be. 58:07.280 --> 58:11.800 We were potentially going to run like three or four of those on the last two bosses. 58:11.800 --> 58:15.680 And part of it was they just made the fights to where you wanted a different damage profile, 58:15.680 --> 58:21.920 specifically spread out to target cleave on both bosses and there's being a 58:21.920 --> 58:26.280 shitload of little ads you needed like basically moonkins took their spot but 58:26.280 --> 58:28.840 shadow priest is way better than I thought if we would have made any comp 58:28.840 --> 58:31.600 changes we would have brought a shadow priest instead of the second moon can I 58:31.600 --> 58:51.280 think. Max, with their sub 5% wipe, would you say it came down more to comp? I don't 58:51.280 --> 58:55.680 know enough about that. I haven't seen their low pulls. I don't know if they wiped to damage. 58:55.680 --> 58:59.760 I find it very hard to believe they wiped to damage ever. Like they probably wiped to 58:59.760 --> 59:03.200 deaths. Like if everyone lives I just can't see how you would ever wipe the damage. You 59:03.200 --> 59:29.480 could probably kill that boss with 10% more HP if you optimized. 59:29.480 --> 59:33.400 going to BlizzCon? Yeah, I mean, I live pretty close. So I'll probably scoot over 59:33.400 --> 59:42.360 there one day. I think I'm streaming from BlizzCon. And I think I also, Scott said 59:42.360 --> 59:46.360 something like this, I never know what I'm doing until it happens. But I think 59:46.360 --> 59:53.240 I think we're interviewing someone on stage. So hold out for that. But I don't 59:53.240 --> 01:00:03.240 know when or who or if that's true. 01:00:03.240 --> 01:00:04.240 With Skype. 01:00:04.240 --> 01:00:10.280 Dude, yeah, that would be fucking amazing. 01:00:10.280 --> 01:00:15.360 Can you imagine me and Scott and Skype interviewing a developer and then Scott and I sit there 01:00:15.360 --> 01:00:18.880 silently in fear as Skype kills them? 01:00:18.880 --> 01:00:42.680 Bro, that would be so scary. 01:00:42.680 --> 01:00:46.000 Max, do you think the pool strat is either than the normal way if they never hotfix it? 01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:49.440 I don't know, we never really got to try it. 01:00:49.440 --> 01:00:51.720 Like we tried to do it one pull right at the very end, 01:00:51.720 --> 01:00:54.320 but we wiped to something else, and then we never did it again. 01:00:58.640 --> 01:01:00.760 Max, what made you decide to go double rogue? 01:01:00.760 --> 01:01:04.160 They just did the most damage. 01:01:04.160 --> 01:01:06.640 I think rogue's the best class on that fight. 01:01:06.640 --> 01:01:08.560 Well, the rogue is the best class on that fight 01:01:08.560 --> 01:01:10.080 after the singular moon. 01:01:10.080 --> 01:01:13.120 Can you need to break the eggs in time? 01:01:13.120 --> 01:01:14.080 But then it's rogue. 01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:23.000 And AUG, oh yeah, AUG too. 01:01:23.000 --> 01:01:26.000 Second AUG might have been better than something as well. 01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:54.440 Is Windwalker just a best mystic touch spec? 01:01:54.440 --> 01:01:55.440 Yes. 01:01:55.440 --> 01:02:01.920 I mean Windwalker wasn't bad, but yeah, it's definitely was like the least bad thing 01:02:01.920 --> 01:02:04.920 of all the monks. 01:02:04.920 --> 01:02:15.800 Max, do you think stacking Soaks is what made P3 so easy? 01:02:15.800 --> 01:02:26.720 Yeah, I think if you had 12 spreads every single time, it would have made it harder for sure. 01:02:26.720 --> 01:02:29.440 I mean, yeah, last platform. 01:02:29.440 --> 01:02:32.960 I feel like on the very last platform, though, you would have never done that. 01:02:32.960 --> 01:02:40.520 If you could have Venn diagramed, but it was way less punishing, I feel like on the 01:02:40.520 --> 01:02:43.520 Last platform you would have done it, honestly. 01:02:45.880 --> 01:02:48.360 Like even if it meant resing the players basically, 01:02:48.360 --> 01:02:50.560 if it was like too much damage to ever heal. 01:02:52.520 --> 01:02:54.400 With stacking soaks, you would have just killed 01:02:54.400 --> 01:02:55.400 it the night before. 01:03:00.120 --> 01:03:00.960 Nah. 01:03:03.560 --> 01:03:04.760 Honestly, we might have lost 01:03:04.760 --> 01:03:07.220 if we had stacked the soaks the night before. 01:03:07.220 --> 01:03:08.840 Cause if we had like a 15% wipe, 01:03:08.840 --> 01:03:12.120 would have been really, or a 10% wife, it would have been really hard to go to bed. 01:03:13.780 --> 01:03:17.200 And then also, Echo would know at that point how capable it was, which they 01:03:17.200 --> 01:03:18.840 wouldn't until they got there themselves. 01:03:19.520 --> 01:03:21.200 Maybe that changes their motivation. 01:03:21.480 --> 01:03:24.000 Also, like, certainly we would have problem solved some things that they 01:03:24.000 --> 01:03:25.560 wouldn't have to problem solve themselves. 01:03:25.560 --> 01:03:27.400 They went through a few hours of figuring that out. 01:03:38.840 --> 01:03:47.360 People are shitting on Echo and really poured their heart into something that's not enough. 01:03:47.360 --> 01:03:48.360 Yeah. 01:03:48.360 --> 01:03:49.360 Yeah. 01:03:49.360 --> 01:03:50.360 Definitely. 01:03:50.360 --> 01:03:55.360 Yeah, I don't really know how well Echo played this tier. 01:03:55.360 --> 01:04:01.800 What I mean by this is like, I feel like if anyone is ever saying Liquid is playing 01:04:01.800 --> 01:04:04.080 bad, Liquid is playing amazing. 01:04:04.080 --> 01:04:05.880 Echo is playing amazing and Echo is playing bad. 01:04:05.880 --> 01:04:13.020 I feel like all of this is said purely out of the relation of how well or not well they 01:04:13.020 --> 01:04:18.520 are doing in relation to the other guild, and that's it, right? 01:04:18.520 --> 01:04:21.280 I don't think fans really have much of a way to really see that. 01:04:21.280 --> 01:04:22.520 Oh, they kill the boss in less pulls. 01:04:22.520 --> 01:04:23.520 They kill the boss faster. 01:04:23.520 --> 01:04:28.160 But that could be because a guild played great or the other guild played bad, right? 01:04:28.160 --> 01:04:32.440 I know what it feels like to be playing well and Echo to be playing fucking crazy well 01:04:32.440 --> 01:04:35.360 and you lose because of that, right? 01:04:35.360 --> 01:04:43.280 tier we were so so fucking bad that that is why I don't think Echo had like an 01:04:43.280 --> 01:04:49.040 absolutely amazing tier because if they did if they if we fought the version of 01:04:49.040 --> 01:04:51.840 Echo we know we've played against in the past where we were playing well and 01:04:51.840 --> 01:04:55.400 they were like fucking incredible they would have won by like three days bro 01:04:55.400 --> 01:05:02.000 we were we were dog shit for most of this rate if they were like at their 01:05:02.000 --> 01:05:05.240 absolute best I think the reality is it probably like they had a normal tier 01:05:05.240 --> 01:05:08.560 for them, and we were just absolutely horrible, so it made it look like they were playing insane. 01:05:08.560 --> 01:05:13.520 But like I think from a viewer's perspective, it's really, really hard to like parse exactly 01:05:13.520 --> 01:05:28.360 which one of those two is happening. 01:05:28.360 --> 01:05:29.720 Why do you think you guys weren't playing up a standard? 01:05:29.720 --> 01:05:31.720 I already answered this earlier at the beginning of the stream. 01:05:59.720 --> 01:06:23.760 Max, when the Ocarina of Time Remake gets released, wait, when does that come out? 01:06:23.760 --> 01:06:30.760 out of time. 01:06:30.760 --> 01:06:32.760 Are you going to hang out with Roger during BlizzCon? 01:06:32.760 --> 01:06:36.760 I mean, I hung out with Echo people with BlizzCon last time. 01:06:36.760 --> 01:06:37.760 So I'm not quite sure. 01:06:37.760 --> 01:06:41.760 I mean, I know we're playing them in the first round of the, 01:06:41.760 --> 01:06:42.760 like, MDI at BlizzCon. 01:06:42.760 --> 01:06:45.760 It's basically there's four teams playing and it's single limb. 01:06:45.760 --> 01:06:47.760 So there's like, I think like three or four games or something. 01:06:47.760 --> 01:06:52.760 I don't know if there's like a third place game, but yeah. 01:06:52.760 --> 01:07:02.760 We're basically playing, so because the other team, Dignitas, they're playing the Chinese team, and Liquid is playing Echo. 01:07:02.760 --> 01:07:05.760 I think they're called mandatory, but it's Echo, right? 01:07:05.760 --> 01:07:11.760 The Liquid vs. Echo game is like the non-getting shit on by the Chinese team championship. 01:07:11.760 --> 01:07:17.760 The no-China bracket, because the Chinese team is going to beat everyone by a lot. 01:07:17.760 --> 01:07:20.760 It won't be close, unfortunately. 01:07:20.760 --> 01:07:25.080 So at least before we have to potentially play them, 01:07:25.080 --> 01:07:27.360 we can play Echo first. 01:07:32.560 --> 01:07:33.520 And then, yeah, I mean, I'm sure 01:07:33.520 --> 01:07:34.840 it will be at the same thing for that. 01:07:34.840 --> 01:07:35.900 And yeah, I'm sure we'll talk. 01:07:35.900 --> 01:07:37.300 I mean, honestly, it's gonna be weird though, 01:07:37.300 --> 01:07:39.840 because like this is a race where I think 01:07:39.840 --> 01:07:41.640 they feel really weird about losing, 01:07:41.640 --> 01:07:43.440 and it makes sense for a lot of reasons. 01:07:43.440 --> 01:07:45.920 And typically in the past, 01:07:45.920 --> 01:07:49.880 there's never quite been like a full understanding 01:07:49.880 --> 01:07:54.280 of every race where both guilds feel like the right thing happened. 01:07:54.280 --> 01:07:56.520 Sometimes you just don't talk about it and it's chill. 01:07:56.520 --> 01:08:00.080 But I think one thing that's cool is there's shared experiences. 01:08:00.080 --> 01:08:04.120 You're one of the few people that have gone through things 01:08:04.120 --> 01:08:06.520 that other people have gone through. 01:08:06.520 --> 01:08:08.400 I mean, also, everyone's drinking. 01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:09.600 So you get along. 01:08:09.600 --> 01:08:10.960 It's usually fine. 01:08:10.960 --> 01:08:12.720 But also, maybe there will be a fistfight 01:08:12.720 --> 01:08:15.640 and that would be fun. 01:08:15.640 --> 01:08:19.240 Maybe like THD will just start swinging on some random echo player. 01:08:20.120 --> 01:08:22.240 He's, he's, uh, he's hard to read. 01:08:34.660 --> 01:08:35.920 It's a Cuban thing. Yeah. 01:08:45.640 --> 01:09:10.200 I mean, T.H.D. likely isn't going. 01:09:10.200 --> 01:09:16.200 Like, T.H.D. doesn't leave his house unless he is contractually obligated to. 01:09:16.200 --> 01:09:39.000 Max, you previously said you love the problem solving process of the race. 01:09:39.000 --> 01:09:42.360 Do you feel like you missed out on that this time? 01:09:42.360 --> 01:09:47.400 some on the macro level but not in like the like the problem solving is the stuff you hear us talking 01:09:47.400 --> 01:09:51.240 about in between each poll which is usually some kind of small change like one thing on Ullatech was 01:09:51.240 --> 01:09:56.840 watching the vods of everyone who died to a wave in p1 and trying to see if there was a way that 01:09:56.840 --> 01:10:02.440 they could consistently live that set since they're kind of deterministic and we saved a lot of 01:10:02.440 --> 01:10:07.320 wipes by coming up with ways to do that like that's just an example uh coiled altar absolutely 01:10:07.320 --> 01:10:11.720 as well but like macro level strap making kind of because we just like didn't do it 01:10:11.720 --> 01:10:14.160 It's as if we didn't do PTR testing, by the way. 01:10:14.160 --> 01:10:16.000 It was as if we walked up to every boss 01:10:16.000 --> 01:10:17.680 and had not looked at their dungeon journal before. 01:10:17.680 --> 01:10:19.680 That was like our preparation for this raid. 01:10:41.720 --> 01:11:01.720 Why do you think there was so much less prep for the already I'm said earlier? 01:11:01.720 --> 01:11:06.320 What does it take to become an add-on guy for a guild like Liquid? 01:11:06.320 --> 01:11:07.320 Be Jesus. 01:11:07.320 --> 01:11:09.800 At least that's recent. 01:11:09.800 --> 01:11:14.880 Dude, I need chat. 01:11:14.880 --> 01:11:21.520 I need another game to play on my couch to just decompress from the race and not be 01:11:21.520 --> 01:11:24.720 near a computer. 01:11:24.720 --> 01:11:27.560 I'll give you some examples of games I've played previously. 01:11:27.560 --> 01:11:31.720 one I hadn't played an assassin's creed game in a while and I played like the black flag 01:11:31.720 --> 01:11:36.880 remix and I was like all right this is kind of cool but like I haven't played a recent 01:11:36.880 --> 01:11:40.120 assassin's creed game in a while so I just played assassin's creed shadows downloaded 01:11:40.120 --> 01:11:49.000 that the game was awesome was really fun but I need like a I need something need something 01:11:49.000 --> 01:11:55.720 to like like hardcore on the couch hang out just hang out with my dogs which by the 01:11:55.720 --> 01:12:02.720 Lily got one of her last doses of chemo the other day. 01:12:02.720 --> 01:12:07.720 Her white blood count was not insanely ideal, 01:12:07.720 --> 01:12:12.720 but she's powering through. She's a good girl. 01:12:12.720 --> 01:12:30.240 Well, fingers crossed, well, sorry, I should be more clear. 01:12:30.240 --> 01:12:32.520 She has a form of cancer that is not going away. 01:12:32.520 --> 01:12:36.040 It is, unfortunately, in dogs, it will absolutely spread to her lungs. 01:12:36.040 --> 01:12:39.880 All chemo does is delay that. 01:12:39.880 --> 01:12:42.080 So it's not like a thing, like fingers crossed, it'll go away. 01:12:42.080 --> 01:12:46.960 never going away, unfortunately. But we do think it will like meaningfully extend her life, so. 01:12:52.400 --> 01:12:55.600 All right. And that's her, by the way. Let me show you a picture of her, 01:12:56.320 --> 01:13:11.920 because I'm trauma dumping right now. Here you go. Look at this baby girl. Hi, Lily. 01:13:12.080 --> 01:13:23.640 Max, what's your opinion on the fact that currently 70% of the guilds in the top 800 01:13:23.640 --> 01:13:42.380 are running splits? Is that a real number? Like it's that widespread. Dorkylinked a 01:13:42.380 --> 01:13:55.340 reddit thing. Okay. Last season there was a lot of talk about splits. Many guilds 01:13:55.340 --> 01:13:58.100 increased the number. Many people still claim in this day that nobody besides the 01:13:58.100 --> 01:14:02.140 top 10 or 50 is doing splits. No one does that except idiots. I have built 01:14:02.140 --> 01:14:06.300 RaidSplit tracker pages.dev that uses historical data from Radar.io to check 01:14:06.300 --> 01:14:10.460 this. As you can see in the tables my claim in is ever-growing. This is 01:14:10.460 --> 01:14:19.180 further is really further than it ever should have been. The lower guilds have 01:14:19.180 --> 01:14:27.200 only decided to do a few more of them. TLDR over 81% of the guilds in the top 01:14:27.200 --> 01:14:30.980 400 or bracket are doing splits over 90% in EU. This is not counting guilders 01:14:30.980 --> 01:14:35.580 private of their pulls or not tripping Raider IO at all, which is most of 01:14:35.580 --> 01:14:39.740 them. This is even excluding the top 50 and Dragonflight season one less than 01:14:39.740 --> 01:14:42.700 half we're doing splits. 01:14:42.700 --> 01:14:49.580 Oh, wait, so since Dragonflight to now, 01:14:49.580 --> 01:14:54.500 instead of 80% of the guilds doing it, it was 38%. 01:14:54.500 --> 01:14:58.660 It's doubled since Dragonflight? 01:14:58.660 --> 01:14:59.900 Bro, that. 01:14:59.900 --> 01:15:01.900 OK, dude, honestly, I love hearing that. 01:15:01.900 --> 01:15:02.940 And let me tell you why. 01:15:02.940 --> 01:15:04.420 Obviously, I don't love hearing that. 01:15:04.420 --> 01:15:07.780 It sucks for you all, but I'm me, and I don't really care. 01:15:07.780 --> 01:15:09.180 Here's why I love hearing that, 01:15:09.180 --> 01:15:17.500 because that's enough people it's becoming enough of a problem to where Blizzard might actually fucking do something about it where if it only affects the people at the top they never will 01:15:22.420 --> 01:15:23.860 Dude, please blizzard 01:15:24.820 --> 01:15:33.740 I mean we've talked about this before dude I've talked to the end before and like like first global he just says like alright how can we fix splits like obviously they 01:15:33.740 --> 01:15:39.740 They're like, what can we do to have you guys stop doing splits, basically, is the answer. 01:15:39.740 --> 01:15:41.740 And really, you don't really have an answer. 01:15:41.740 --> 01:15:46.740 And by the way, this is a friendly reminder that I'm not asking for yours right now because it's wrong and you don't have one. 01:15:56.740 --> 01:16:00.740 Do you have any place who struggles with eye issues playing so long during the race? 01:16:00.740 --> 01:16:06.620 race, actually me. But if I put on like blue light filtering glasses, my eyes feel fine. 01:16:06.620 --> 01:16:12.380 But if I don't, they are absolutely burning by the end of the day. 01:16:12.380 --> 01:16:19.380 Yep, love my zenies! 01:16:42.380 --> 01:16:59.820 Was capping the amount of raid lockouts per, oh my God, how long have I been streaming? 01:16:59.820 --> 01:17:05.900 Alright, someone said that Teddles had an interview with someone that answered some questions 01:17:05.900 --> 01:17:07.180 about raid difficulty. 01:17:07.180 --> 01:17:09.340 I kind of want to look at that. 01:17:09.340 --> 01:17:12.060 Max, how did Teddles end up with your jersey? 01:17:12.060 --> 01:17:16.060 I don't know, dude, I'm just going to share something with you guys. 01:17:16.500 --> 01:17:20.460 If he sees this, this is going to be the most random slander ever. 01:17:20.940 --> 01:17:24.260 But when I went back into my like discord, right, as post random things 01:17:24.420 --> 01:17:28.500 to find a picture of Lily for you all, the picture right above it is JB 01:17:28.500 --> 01:17:34.500 gaming in the closet in that one blood legion doc from like the early 2010s. 01:17:34.900 --> 01:17:37.420 And I've been looking at it on my other monitor every now and then for 01:17:37.420 --> 01:17:39.580 the past like five minutes and I have to show it to you all. 01:17:39.580 --> 01:17:40.900 I'm so sorry, JB. 01:17:40.900 --> 01:17:50.660 Jeb, if you see this, I'm so sorry that I'm posting you hitting the shrimp on Twitch.tv, 01:17:50.660 --> 01:17:52.740 but it's just, it's fucking insane. 01:17:52.740 --> 01:17:55.540 The posture's fucking nuts, bro. 01:17:55.540 --> 01:18:10.880 Speaking of JB, by the way, he had an amazing tweet today. 01:18:10.880 --> 01:18:14.920 don't understand how impossible it is to make bosses hard enough to one challenge 01:18:14.920 --> 01:18:19.600 echo and liquid but also be killable and to also thoroughly test these bosses 01:18:19.600 --> 01:18:24.480 it's like trying to make a cage that can hold Superman for exactly 72 hours but 01:18:24.480 --> 01:18:34.900 also Superman has analysts just just at a very average routine JB Twitter 01:18:34.900 --> 01:19:03.580 bagger. All right, where's this Teddles thing? I mean, it's just got to be on his YouTube. 01:19:03.580 --> 01:19:07.180 I got to ask wow devs 01:19:07.180 --> 01:19:11.380 wait hold on his titles fucking popping off on twitter reason or on youtube 01:19:11.380 --> 01:19:15.180 i had a really bad rate night four days ago one hundred thirty seven kv's i got 01:19:15.180 --> 01:19:18.820 to ask wow devs the most important questions eighty six kv's one hundred 01:19:18.820 --> 01:19:23.260 thirty one 01:19:23.260 --> 01:19:26.140 i mean he's kind of going hard 01:19:26.140 --> 01:19:31.100 as my channel doing 01:19:31.100 --> 01:19:33.100 Maximum clips 01:19:41.020 --> 01:19:43.020 140s 01:19:43.260 --> 01:19:45.260 Dude, I love this channel in particular 01:19:46.380 --> 01:19:52.100 Because absolutely zero thought goes into this I pay this is not fronk by the way 01:19:52.220 --> 01:19:53.940 This is a different editor 01:19:53.940 --> 01:19:59.740 That's an absolute beast and he just simply clips me talking on stream that I never think about again 01:19:59.740 --> 01:20:03.100 and it just turns into free YouTube money. 01:20:03.100 --> 01:20:05.900 It's so beast, bro. 01:20:05.900 --> 01:20:07.940 OK, and he's back to the title's thing. 01:20:11.780 --> 01:20:15.340 All right, Ian got to talk to Ian and whoever this is. 01:20:15.340 --> 01:20:17.100 Very, very handsome man. 01:20:17.100 --> 01:20:17.620 All right. 01:20:17.620 --> 01:20:18.420 Fantastic news. 01:20:18.420 --> 01:20:20.220 Today, I am joined by Paul Cupid. 01:20:20.220 --> 01:20:22.140 Oh, wait, we heard Paul Cupid. 01:20:29.740 --> 01:20:38.740 Max, recently there's a spike in views since YouTube changed the way it counts viewers. 01:20:38.740 --> 01:20:39.740 It's kind of fake now. 01:20:39.740 --> 01:20:42.820 Bro, I take whatever I can get. 01:20:42.820 --> 01:20:46.740 If I get a viewer increase, it's because I'm better at my job. 01:20:46.740 --> 01:20:50.740 All right. 01:20:50.740 --> 01:20:55.740 Max, Echo's kill pull was two seconds faster than Liquid's kill pull. 01:20:55.740 --> 01:20:56.740 Opinions? 01:20:56.740 --> 01:20:58.740 I guess we lost then. 01:20:58.740 --> 01:21:01.740 All right, what are the topics here? 01:21:04.740 --> 01:21:08.740 We have raid buffs, creating satisfaction. 01:21:08.740 --> 01:21:13.740 I'll listen to the questions, and is this an hour-long interview? 01:21:13.740 --> 01:21:16.740 You know, I'm over it, whatever. 01:21:16.740 --> 01:21:18.740 Let's start it. 01:21:18.740 --> 01:21:22.740 It's sort of a hot topic. Everybody speculates things about raid buffs, 01:21:22.740 --> 01:21:24.740 whether or not they exist to keep one class in the raid. 01:21:24.740 --> 01:21:26.740 Is it true that that is their purpose? 01:21:26.740 --> 01:21:31.480 Is it seen as a as a failure on the raid buff system if they don't exist in every single rate? 01:21:31.480 --> 01:21:35.180 Wait, hold on. Tettles with fucking heat right out of the gate? 01:21:35.740 --> 01:21:37.740 Competition 01:21:38.060 --> 01:21:44.380 One class in the raid pick everybody speculates things about raid buffs whether or not they exist to keep one class in the raid 01:21:44.380 --> 01:21:46.380 Is it true that that is their purpose? 01:21:46.380 --> 01:21:52.600 Is it seen as a failure on the raid buff system if they don't exist in every single raid competition composition rather? 01:21:52.600 --> 01:22:01.080 I mean, broadly, I think that is a big part of the function they've served for, like, 15 plus years. 01:22:01.080 --> 01:22:08.200 I mean, very early on, like, back in 2004, some of the origins of things like Fort or Mark of the Wild 01:22:08.200 --> 01:22:12.280 or whatever, when everyone didn't have them, was more just, you know, the idea of synergy and 01:22:12.280 --> 01:22:16.680 support and feeling stronger when you're in a group, you know, when you're in a rage, 01:22:16.680 --> 01:22:20.280 you have all these buffs on you, that just makes your character more powerful. There's 01:22:20.280 --> 01:22:22.720 or something cool mechanically about that. 01:22:22.720 --> 01:22:26.080 But yeah, I mean, in practice, especially in recent years, 01:22:26.080 --> 01:22:29.640 I think we view them, we do view them as a bit of a backstop 01:22:29.640 --> 01:22:32.640 to ensure that the best raid composition 01:22:32.640 --> 01:22:34.360 is a varied raid composition. 01:22:34.360 --> 01:22:35.600 If they didn't exist. 01:22:35.600 --> 01:22:37.800 How did JB even hit that shit? 01:22:43.880 --> 01:22:45.600 You know what I'm talking about? 01:22:45.600 --> 01:22:48.560 Like you gotta get some serious fucking lean. 01:22:48.560 --> 01:22:52.440 I'm going to pull this out a little bit. 01:22:52.440 --> 01:22:59.240 It's like, I have to aggressively try to like fucking, 01:22:59.240 --> 01:23:01.120 you know what I'm talking about? 01:23:01.120 --> 01:23:06.920 He's hitting like the, I can't even do it. 01:23:06.920 --> 01:23:08.720 Look at that turn and plug push this camera down, 01:23:08.720 --> 01:23:10.880 or move over maybe. 01:23:10.880 --> 01:23:17.200 He's got the like, I can't even do it. 01:23:17.200 --> 01:23:20.220 It's like almost impressive the amount of mobility 01:23:20.220 --> 01:23:21.460 has in that position. 01:23:24.740 --> 01:23:26.060 What a beast. 01:23:26.060 --> 01:23:28.220 Just at all, some of this is we know 01:23:28.220 --> 01:23:29.860 community meta pressures, 01:23:29.860 --> 01:23:33.100 if you're gonna fit seven range DPS into a raid, 01:23:33.100 --> 01:23:34.580 well you're gonna take the one or two 01:23:34.580 --> 01:23:36.100 that have the best damage profile 01:23:36.100 --> 01:23:37.420 or perceived as the highest DPS. 01:23:37.420 --> 01:23:38.260 Actually, I think what it is, 01:23:38.260 --> 01:23:41.100 is it might be impossible to achieve that posture 01:23:41.100 --> 01:23:42.500 in a blacklight chair. 01:23:43.380 --> 01:23:44.220 You know what I mean? 01:23:44.220 --> 01:23:46.060 Like they're designed in such a way 01:23:46.060 --> 01:23:48.820 where you have good posture and you can't actually 01:23:48.820 --> 01:23:50.260 even intentionally get into posture like that. 01:23:50.260 --> 01:23:52.740 Yes, for this tier and just stack those. 01:23:52.740 --> 01:23:56.280 And we, there's people who play every class, every spec. 01:23:56.280 --> 01:23:58.740 Ideally we want them to be able to find a home 01:23:58.740 --> 01:24:01.880 in groups and guilds and so forth. 01:24:03.160 --> 01:24:06.320 And so, you know, while of course we do ongoing balance, 01:24:06.320 --> 01:24:07.160 I think that's a little, 01:24:07.160 --> 01:24:08.780 like the buffs are a little bit of a backstop 01:24:08.780 --> 01:24:10.580 to make sure that if you're a pug leader 01:24:10.580 --> 01:24:13.740 putting a raid together and you don't have one of a class, 01:24:13.740 --> 01:24:15.500 you should be looking for the class you're missing 01:24:15.500 --> 01:24:17.640 before you're looking to bring the third mage 01:24:17.640 --> 01:24:19.920 or the third priest or whatever else. 01:24:21.200 --> 01:24:24.080 Now, and you don't have one of a class, 01:24:24.080 --> 01:24:25.840 you should be looking for the class you're missing 01:24:25.840 --> 01:24:28.360 before you're looking to bring the third mage or... 01:24:28.360 --> 01:24:29.580 That's not true. 01:24:33.960 --> 01:24:35.320 That's not true for a few reasons. 01:24:35.320 --> 01:24:37.480 Number one, every time you bring a new evoker, 01:24:37.480 --> 01:24:39.280 you gain meaningful raid utility, 01:24:39.280 --> 01:24:43.280 plus one times viral, plus one rescue, plus one Zephyr. 01:24:43.280 --> 01:24:51.280 Like it is, it is extra, like, and it is, there's plenty of scenarios where that is better than bringing the single of something for sure. 01:24:52.280 --> 01:24:54.280 Oh, he's saying pugs. Okay, hold on, hold on. 01:24:55.280 --> 01:24:58.280 Well, of course, builds and so forth. 01:24:59.280 --> 01:25:02.280 And so, you know, well, of course, we do ongoing balance. 01:25:02.280 --> 01:25:09.280 I think that's a little, like the buffs are a little bit of a backstop to make sure that if you're a pug leader putting a raid together, and you don't have one of a class, 01:25:09.280 --> 01:25:13.680 class you should be looking for the class you're missing before you're looking to bring the third 01:25:13.680 --> 01:25:20.800 age or the third priest or whatever else. That's probably true. Like I think the most obvious 01:25:20.800 --> 01:25:26.000 issue with that is death knight and maybe this tier especially that way because DK and EPS are so 01:25:26.000 --> 01:25:30.480 bad but there's also a ton of blood DKs so like even though you don't need grip on every fight 01:25:31.120 --> 01:25:36.720 or any fight in heroic Vashnik I bet you'd like put a DK in your comp because you might 01:25:36.720 --> 01:25:39.520 end up pulling Vashnik though, you know? 01:25:43.680 --> 01:25:49.440 Dude, fun Vashnik fact. It's actually easier to do the Vashnik in quotes cheese on mythic than 01:25:49.440 --> 01:25:54.480 heroic because on mythic it only ramps by 100% every time you go to the same thing over and over 01:25:54.480 --> 01:25:59.440 again and on heroic and normal it's 200%. No one knows why. Why is it easier on mythic? 01:25:59.440 --> 01:26:02.400 Yeah, they take different forms. Some of them are just you know. 01:26:02.400 --> 01:26:04.320 No, they changed it on Heroic. 01:26:04.320 --> 01:26:05.360 Oh, OK. 01:26:05.360 --> 01:26:08.000 Well, that's how it was when we did the bosses, though. 01:26:08.000 --> 01:26:10.600 Passive stat buffs or direct stat buffs. 01:26:10.600 --> 01:26:13.800 Others, I think, have a clear utility effect. 01:26:13.800 --> 01:26:15.720 I know there's been a lot of debate in the past of, like, 01:26:15.720 --> 01:26:17.480 does Death Grip count as a raid? 01:26:17.480 --> 01:26:19.560 And it's like, no, it's not a traditional raid buff. 01:26:19.560 --> 01:26:22.480 But it's very much a reason to brain a death knight. 01:26:22.480 --> 01:26:26.040 The reality is that some of those utility effects, 01:26:26.040 --> 01:26:26.480 though. 01:26:26.480 --> 01:26:28.120 I mean, you can only be thinking 01:26:28.120 --> 01:26:29.920 about that in terms of a pug when you're 01:26:29.920 --> 01:26:32.000 planning on just going through the whole raid. 01:26:32.000 --> 01:26:33.720 In a mythic grade, that's not how it works at all. 01:26:33.720 --> 01:26:36.240 You don't need DKs for anything in this raid 01:26:36.240 --> 01:26:38.080 until the very last phase of Ullitech, 01:26:38.080 --> 01:26:40.600 which is like low key Galiwix P2. 01:26:40.600 --> 01:26:42.360 You don't even need a DK in the last phase of Ullitech, 01:26:42.360 --> 01:26:43.480 by the way, if they have zero HP, 01:26:43.480 --> 01:26:44.640 you can just have your range swapped to them. 01:26:44.640 --> 01:26:46.840 They have less HP than the X-Hat and Heroic 01:26:46.840 --> 01:26:48.080 when they don't move. 01:26:48.080 --> 01:26:50.720 Really only matter at our scene 01:26:50.720 --> 01:26:51.880 at the highest levels of cooldown. 01:26:51.880 --> 01:26:53.240 You want them for Vashnik? 01:26:54.120 --> 01:26:57.880 We killed Vashnik in a split without a DK, I'm pretty sure. 01:26:57.880 --> 01:26:59.840 And also you want them for Nermissa? 01:26:59.840 --> 01:27:00.680 That's true. 01:27:00.680 --> 01:27:05.600 But by the way, I feel like people are not talking enough about how we also got world-first 01:27:05.600 --> 01:27:06.600 Nermissa this year. 01:27:06.600 --> 01:27:07.600 Pregnated play. 01:27:07.600 --> 01:27:08.600 I'll say it. 01:27:08.600 --> 01:27:13.520 Like, yeah, when you're putting together a mythic raid comp, you might need an extra 01:27:13.520 --> 01:27:17.040 skin feeding roar, and that might justify a specific inclusion. 01:27:17.040 --> 01:27:18.680 You might need a second grip. 01:27:18.680 --> 01:27:23.920 Generally, when someone is forming a heroic pug or an AOTC pug or whatever, though, 01:27:23.920 --> 01:27:25.880 that's not going to be the way they're viewing it. 01:27:25.880 --> 01:27:32.000 And so part of what we've seen is that even if death grip might get definitely a slot 01:27:32.000 --> 01:27:37.640 in high-end cutting edge rating, it's not necessarily going to translate. 01:27:37.640 --> 01:27:39.960 I'm pretty sure Kithix would be 10. 01:27:39.960 --> 01:27:43.960 I mean, we're not going super hard for Kithix. 01:27:43.960 --> 01:27:46.120 Without something else to back it up at all levels. 01:27:46.120 --> 01:27:47.120 Sure. 01:27:47.120 --> 01:27:51.880 Are there specific considerations for things like you're kind of saying with DK, maybe 01:27:51.880 --> 01:27:53.880 even a Voker with blessing of the bronze? 01:27:53.880 --> 01:27:58.600 They don't have a standard upfront power gain kind of buff. 01:27:58.600 --> 01:28:00.680 Is there extra effort that kind of goes into making sure 01:28:00.680 --> 01:28:04.580 that those are valuable pieces of a holistic RAID comp? 01:28:06.320 --> 01:28:08.280 Yes, I mean, like ultimately, right? 01:28:08.280 --> 01:28:10.320 We look at balance through two lenses. 01:28:10.320 --> 01:28:13.400 One is the raw numbers like, you know, 01:28:13.400 --> 01:28:16.520 Warcraft logs and community perception and all of that, 01:28:16.520 --> 01:28:18.440 but then also just representation. 01:28:18.440 --> 01:28:20.320 And I think what matters most at the end of the day 01:28:20.320 --> 01:28:21.960 to us is representation. 01:28:21.960 --> 01:28:28.300 Whether it's dungeons, raids, pvp, those can all be different ecosystems, but you know, 01:28:28.300 --> 01:28:33.000 someone has their favorite spec, whether it's because of the fantasy or the mechanics that 01:28:33.000 --> 01:28:36.760 they enjoy, the moment-to-moment rotation, and they shouldn't feel... 01:28:36.760 --> 01:28:42.680 You know, when I hear people say class fantasy, it's kind of a meme, but it is such a 01:28:42.680 --> 01:28:43.680 real thing. 01:28:43.680 --> 01:28:48.960 And the prime example of this is there was like a guy in a racial world last guild 01:28:48.960 --> 01:28:53.960 was playing a Windwalker Monk and he was hitting the fucking IRL Fist of Fury, mid Fist of Fury 01:28:53.960 --> 01:28:59.160 channel, killing like a mythic end boss. And that's when you know that actually like probably 01:28:59.160 --> 01:29:02.960 a lot of people choose a class because they're just straight fucking about that shit. 01:29:02.960 --> 01:29:08.200 So like they can find home in the content of their choosing. And if that's not happening 01:29:08.200 --> 01:29:12.960 for us, like that's one of the biggest warning signs that we need to do something. And 01:29:12.960 --> 01:29:20.720 So, you know, rate buffs are like T H D T H D has had skulls in his bedroom, his his uncle 01:29:20.720 --> 01:29:22.120 or something or stepped out. 01:29:22.120 --> 01:29:23.400 I forget exactly who it is. 01:29:23.400 --> 01:29:25.520 Someone very close to him as a witch doctor. 01:29:25.520 --> 01:29:27.840 So he just ended up being a warlock. 01:29:27.840 --> 01:29:29.800 One of the surest ways towards it. 01:29:29.800 --> 01:29:32.080 It's a cute thing, but it's not the only way. 01:29:32.080 --> 01:29:38.040 If there's a spec that doesn't have a clear like throughput buff, but we see them consistently 01:29:38.040 --> 01:29:41.280 well represented, we probably consider that fine. 01:29:41.280 --> 01:29:44.440 And that has been the answer for something like DK for a long time, 01:29:45.840 --> 01:29:50.480 where, you know, we might have taken action had community trends look differently. 01:29:50.840 --> 01:29:54.000 But generally, when we feel that, hey, if you're playing the spec 01:29:54.000 --> 01:29:57.800 and you're looking to find a group, you're looking to find a home in your content of choice. 01:30:00.560 --> 01:30:05.200 OK, everyone's complaining about DK, but we saw the data that everyone was like playing DK. 01:30:05.200 --> 01:30:06.200 So we thought that wasn't true. 01:30:06.200 --> 01:30:09.560 Yes, but also they happen to be extremely fucking good 01:30:09.560 --> 01:30:14.560 for like the two tiers surrounding that instance, you know? 01:30:15.280 --> 01:30:17.500 I think people are worried about the scenario 01:30:17.500 --> 01:30:20.100 where they're really bad and they don't get brought 01:30:20.100 --> 01:30:21.740 where if another class is really bad, 01:30:21.740 --> 01:30:24.060 they do because they have the buff. 01:30:24.060 --> 01:30:26.000 But like, it was just right after they made that change, 01:30:26.000 --> 01:30:28.900 it just so happened that even if Deathgrip wasn't 01:30:28.900 --> 01:30:30.600 even an ability, you would have played two DKs 01:30:30.600 --> 01:30:33.000 because they just did infinite dam couldn't die in, 01:30:34.220 --> 01:30:36.380 never could be moved in any way, 01:30:36.380 --> 01:30:38.300 which was really important for a few raid tiers. 01:30:38.300 --> 01:30:43.400 Interestingly enough, didn't you guys notice that was like kind of not a thing this raid tier like scissorak? 01:30:43.400 --> 01:30:47.980 Maybe but like it's a piss one-shot boss, right like I feel like 01:30:49.160 --> 01:30:56.740 The I feel like the last like two years honestly, I feel like every boss it was like death's advance was the most broken 01:30:58.360 --> 01:31:05.020 The most broken ability in the game because every boss was just doing crazy movement shit in this tier 01:31:05.020 --> 01:31:09.460 just like that. That randomly was just like missing. If you can find that home, I think 01:31:09.460 --> 01:31:14.260 we're all dead. Very fight profiles are another, you know, big way that we make sure that we 01:31:14.260 --> 01:31:18.260 do have representation from all different classes and specs as well. You're going to 01:31:18.260 --> 01:31:20.180 be good at something, you're going to be good at spread cleave, you're going to be 01:31:20.180 --> 01:31:25.420 good at single target, what have you. And, but yeah, it's, you know, put it that 01:31:25.420 --> 01:31:30.700 the, the rate buffs are a nice backstop. Ask about the two target cleave the whole 01:31:30.700 --> 01:31:34.180 rate. You know, you can avoid those incentives to just stack for like, okay, if this is 01:31:34.180 --> 01:31:38.100 spread cleave fight then we're gonna want to stack spread cleave this way and of course we could 01:31:38.100 --> 01:31:42.260 make every fight say well you know there's a little bit of single target and a little bit of AOE 01:31:42.260 --> 01:31:47.220 and a little bit of spread and so on but then your fights start to become homogenized. Would I 01:31:47.220 --> 01:31:54.900 look sick like Paul if I had a little gray in the beard? Like would it be one of those things 01:31:54.900 --> 01:32:01.620 where I look more intelligent because I've like I'm more experienced or would it make me just 01:32:01.620 --> 01:32:09.540 look like oldest fuck. Like could I pull it off? You know what I'm saying? Like not a lot of gray, 01:32:09.540 --> 01:32:15.140 but like enough gray where you're like okay he's like been through some stuff. He like knows about 01:32:15.140 --> 01:32:25.780 what to do here because he's experienced more of life. You'd look even more like you host game 01:32:25.780 --> 01:32:31.640 What the fuck does that mean? 01:32:31.640 --> 01:32:34.300 What is game changer? 01:32:34.300 --> 01:32:36.860 What is game changer? 01:32:36.860 --> 01:32:50.540 I have no idea what kind of a fucking... 01:32:50.540 --> 01:32:57.540 this guy? 01:32:57.540 --> 01:32:59.940 Sometimes I actually like fucking hate you guys. 01:32:59.940 --> 01:33:00.940 I'll keep it a bug. 01:33:00.940 --> 01:33:07.020 It's a little more interesting world to have varied fights where you do have opportunities 01:33:07.020 --> 01:33:11.180 for folks to shine and then raid buffs just make sure that everything stays well with 01:33:11.180 --> 01:33:12.180 the band. 01:33:12.180 --> 01:33:13.180 And I'm mad. 01:33:13.180 --> 01:33:14.180 And now I'm mad. 01:33:14.180 --> 01:33:15.180 And now I'm mad. 01:33:15.180 --> 01:33:16.180 Just a quick follow-up on that. 01:33:16.180 --> 01:33:19.020 You guys use the word homogenized and I think that that's a perfect word. 01:33:19.020 --> 01:33:23.300 Do you think that raid buffs that were more like group utility base such as like Stamping 01:33:23.300 --> 01:33:25.740 Roar, Gateway, Death Grip, Darkness, like- 01:33:25.740 --> 01:33:28.340 Hey, that was a real fucking thing this year. 01:33:28.340 --> 01:33:35.740 We were going to play two Druids on the last boss even though the second Druid spec wasn't 01:33:35.740 --> 01:33:39.460 like the best before like, this was before you saw how many Moon Kins you needed. 01:33:39.460 --> 01:33:40.540 We thought you only needed one. 01:33:40.540 --> 01:33:42.940 You actually probably did only need one in week two. 01:33:42.940 --> 01:33:51.980 week two of the of the boss but I uh we wanted we thought that Ulitec on 01:33:51.980 --> 01:33:56.780 heroic you would have lost a lot of polls if you only had one win rush and one roar 01:33:56.780 --> 01:34:01.660 and i still feel that way i've started thinking about that more and more as 01:34:01.660 --> 01:34:04.780 like tears go on that like if druids and shamans aren't really strong 01:34:05.660 --> 01:34:10.380 sometimes like you'll take a lot of polls off of a boss by just having an extra 01:34:10.380 --> 01:34:14.780 movement speed thing. And time spirals kind of deal with that, but they also kind of don't. 01:34:16.060 --> 01:34:21.420 And evokers are just always really OP for some reason, but I feel like movement speed is really 01:34:21.420 --> 01:34:25.740 underrated in RAID comp building when you're usually just trying to increase your DPS as much 01:34:25.740 --> 01:34:28.780 as you can. That kind of stuff, do you think that those are more interesting than say the 01:34:28.780 --> 01:34:32.620 conventional style where like Mark of the Wild went sky fury, whatever? 01:34:32.620 --> 01:34:40.360 I mean, yes, but I think as noted earlier, you know, there's a lot of groups that aren't 01:34:40.360 --> 01:34:45.960 coordinating or doing content that requires that level of coordination such that if the 01:34:45.960 --> 01:34:51.560 only thing you bring is, you know, one of those utility buffs, you know, many people 01:34:51.560 --> 01:34:55.600 many groups just aren't going to value that enough and it's not going to achieve a representation 01:34:55.600 --> 01:34:56.600 goals. 01:34:56.600 --> 01:35:00.200 He's talking about heroic, by the way, like normal and heroic, I think pretty frequently 01:35:00.200 --> 01:35:03.640 in Mythic, he makes the assertion that you should try to have one of everything. 01:35:03.640 --> 01:35:08.600 So if we could get there through Just Utility, then that would be awesome. 01:35:08.600 --> 01:35:12.400 But it also makes it important, if you're focused on a specific dungeon, you're focused 01:35:12.400 --> 01:35:17.160 on a specific boss, not every one of those tools is going to matter on that boss. 01:35:17.160 --> 01:35:21.720 And so if the only reason you're being brought is for that tool, that again can 01:35:21.720 --> 01:35:22.720 be a problem. 01:35:22.720 --> 01:35:25.800 So that's kind of let us down the path that we're on. 01:35:25.800 --> 01:35:26.800 Sure. 01:35:26.800 --> 01:35:29.920 But yeah, but that's a stampeding row or our dope. 01:35:29.920 --> 01:35:35.680 left things like that. Oh comparing death grip and stampeding roar. Actually I think those are like pretty 01:35:37.360 --> 01:35:43.440 I think the difference is like stampeding roar is kind of always nice but like stampeding roar never 01:35:43.440 --> 01:35:47.440 has the death grip thing where it's like they've designed a fight to where if you don't have this 01:35:47.440 --> 01:35:53.520 you're completely fucked but maybe the reason you feel that way is because mark of the wild 01:35:53.520 --> 01:36:00.000 exist, you always have one in your raid anyway. But those are like similar and different, you know? 01:36:00.800 --> 01:36:04.480 Make your class feel unique, special, you're thankful when your warlock puts down a gate 01:36:04.480 --> 01:36:11.520 or cookies and whatnot. Yeah. Okay, something that I really wanted to talk about is how to 01:36:11.520 --> 01:36:16.240 keep players satisfied. World of Warcraft has been around for a really long time. And as a personal 01:36:16.240 --> 01:36:19.920 player, it feels like WoW has kind of been moving away from the friction of like traditional 01:36:19.920 --> 01:36:24.560 MMOs, where the focus really is heavily into in-game activities like Raiding Mythic Plus. 01:36:25.360 --> 01:36:30.240 While early season with alts, it feels great not being burdened with chores, but over time, 01:36:30.240 --> 01:36:35.360 players want to maybe sometimes focus on like having one really big character, right, and progress 01:36:35.360 --> 01:36:40.720 their main. Where characters power, it's kind of weird where they sometimes don't log in, 01:36:40.720 --> 01:36:44.480 well they'll log in, and they don't feel like they have a lot of stuff that they're compelled 01:36:44.480 --> 01:36:48.640 to do, even though on paper there's more activities than ever. One of the most important 01:36:48.640 --> 01:36:53.240 aspects I think is kind of like watching it's like an RPG element where you watch 01:36:53.240 --> 01:36:56.800 your power increase and so like it feels like Blizzard's been making attempts to 01:36:56.800 --> 01:37:00.640 fix this with systems like the Omnifolia and the Turbo Boost but within my 01:37:00.640 --> 01:37:04.600 circle these have felt sometimes a little bit unsatisfying you log in once 01:37:04.600 --> 01:37:08.840 and you're done is there he's kind of throwing me any choice of like steering 01:37:08.840 --> 01:37:13.720 the ship back in you know maybe a more traditional MMORPG sense are you 01:37:13.720 --> 01:37:18.040 kind of looking to give players who like love investing time into one 01:37:18.040 --> 01:37:25.240 character, that or is the current state of the game actually being just changed and what modern gaming is is very different? 01:37:28.360 --> 01:37:34.600 That's a great question. I wish there were a straight forward answer to it. I think it's like, 01:37:34.600 --> 01:37:40.760 there's like, there's that exact tension that you describe and I think, you know, some of the pendulum 01:37:40.760 --> 01:37:46.200 swings over the years in systems like borrow power and how we approach progression have kind 01:37:46.200 --> 01:37:52.000 kind of reflected us, you know, trying to focus on one portion of that audience at times, 01:37:52.000 --> 01:37:55.200 and then hearing enough negative feedback from the other portion that we kind of like swung 01:37:55.200 --> 01:38:00.240 things back in the other direction. But yeah, I mean, for someone who isn't necessarily 01:38:00.240 --> 01:38:05.280 an altaholic, they love playing the game, they want to log in, they want to feel like 01:38:05.280 --> 01:38:10.000 they're accomplishing power progression goals with their time spent, and they want 01:38:10.000 --> 01:38:14.040 to go deep on one character. Yeah, something like Legion was perfect because, right, 01:38:14.040 --> 01:38:15.560 You could always get a bit more AP. 01:38:15.560 --> 01:38:17.400 I'm like, we had this diminishing return system, 01:38:17.400 --> 01:38:20.520 so you weren't like way, way stronger than other people. 01:38:20.520 --> 01:38:23.120 But that effort mattered, 01:38:23.120 --> 01:38:26.720 but that comes directly at the expense of the feeling 01:38:26.720 --> 01:38:29.040 that someone who has less available time has, 01:38:29.040 --> 01:38:30.800 but even more prominently, 01:38:30.800 --> 01:38:33.120 feeling the people who wanna play multiple characters have, 01:38:33.120 --> 01:38:35.000 where it feels like if you, 01:38:35.000 --> 01:38:36.400 you're splitting your time between alts, 01:38:36.400 --> 01:38:39.080 now all of them are falling behind as a result. 01:38:39.080 --> 01:38:40.640 And so, yeah, I mean, 01:38:40.640 --> 01:38:43.680 we looking at the state of power progression 01:38:43.680 --> 01:38:45.440 over the course of the season. 01:38:45.440 --> 01:38:49.800 Right now, from an RPG progression perspective, 01:38:49.800 --> 01:38:51.440 it's too front-loaded. 01:38:51.440 --> 01:38:55.000 Like your players are getting probably like 90% 01:38:55.000 --> 01:38:57.000 or more of the power that they're going to get 01:38:57.000 --> 01:38:58.600 over the course of the season 01:38:58.600 --> 01:39:00.080 in the first four to six weeks, 01:39:00.080 --> 01:39:02.080 if they're really hardcore about the content they're doing, 01:39:02.080 --> 01:39:05.080 maybe a few weeks longer if they're less so. 01:39:05.080 --> 01:39:07.160 But like, and so like part of us would love 01:39:07.160 --> 01:39:10.700 to have a smoother progression curve 01:39:10.700 --> 01:39:12.560 over the course of those months. 01:39:12.560 --> 01:39:14.480 it also solves some other problems, 01:39:14.480 --> 01:39:17.200 like feeling like gear can help you overcome challenges 01:39:17.200 --> 01:39:18.600 that you're struggling with. 01:39:18.600 --> 01:39:21.600 And so I think like because gear is so front loaded, 01:39:21.600 --> 01:39:23.680 we need to do things like progressive raid buffs 01:39:23.680 --> 01:39:25.280 or systems like the Omnifolia 01:39:25.280 --> 01:39:28.880 or just targeted blanket nerfs to help groups 01:39:28.880 --> 01:39:31.160 that are missing and can't meet a DPS check 01:39:31.160 --> 01:39:33.660 feel like there's hope on the horizon 01:39:33.660 --> 01:39:36.080 that something's gonna help them over that hump. 01:39:36.080 --> 01:39:38.320 It used to be that you just keep getting stronger, 01:39:38.320 --> 01:39:39.640 statuallize or gear-wise. 01:39:39.640 --> 01:39:42.520 And like, typically you're close to saturation 01:39:42.520 --> 01:39:46.520 But the flip side is, that's amazing for all of us, as you noticed. 01:39:46.520 --> 01:39:50.520 People want to play different characters, they want to jump in, you take some time off, 01:39:50.520 --> 01:39:53.520 you want to catch up and feel like you can actually play with your friends, 01:39:53.520 --> 01:39:56.520 instead of feeling like, well I missed the first couple months of the season, 01:39:56.520 --> 01:39:59.520 I guess I'll see you guys in four months because I'm too far behind. 01:39:59.520 --> 01:40:02.520 All of those are huge downsides of the other end. 01:40:02.520 --> 01:40:05.520 And so we debate this a lot. 01:40:05.520 --> 01:40:16.520 I hope, you know, like I would love, hopefully when, you know, this conversation kind of trickles out and fans out across the community, I can't wait to hear all the discussions around this exact topic. 01:40:16.520 --> 01:40:28.520 And, you know, what players from different perspectives, what years they've liked and what ideas they might have for what they think would feel satisfying to them, because it, you know, we could use help, frankly, it's a tough problem. 01:40:28.520 --> 01:40:30.520 I think that was a good answer. 01:40:30.520 --> 01:40:39.520 I mean, I've specifically talked to him about Legion and stuff like that and like where the game, like such a drastic turn away from it. 01:40:39.520 --> 01:40:45.520 And he had like pretty similar to this conversation he's had with him, like pretty insightful answers on like how there is no one best thing. 01:40:45.520 --> 01:40:49.520 And I also think it's just like one thing could be amazing for one player. 01:40:49.520 --> 01:40:56.520 Like there's there's some players in the game that would love this game so much more of artifact power never left. 01:40:56.520 --> 01:41:02.060 And there are so many players that would absolutely hate this game if artifact power stayed 01:41:03.060 --> 01:41:04.120 and 01:41:04.120 --> 01:41:10.280 They have to do something that I think is doable for everyone or making the least amount of people mad 01:41:12.400 --> 01:41:14.900 So that's part of the issue with wow 01:41:15.880 --> 01:41:22.980 Being something that's so many different groups of people are into for different reasons is it's really hard to make the game 01:41:22.980 --> 01:41:24.980 Just fucking amazing for any one of them 01:41:26.520 --> 01:41:34.560 Yeah, and just to add on to that, this is not an area where when we look at the state 01:41:34.560 --> 01:41:39.080 of how you get gear from mythic lesson rates now added in things like the omnium folio or 01:41:39.080 --> 01:41:40.080 even the cork. 01:41:40.080 --> 01:41:43.320 Oh, someone else asked, where is it? 01:41:43.320 --> 01:41:46.920 Max, why is it a bad thing to be done with a season if you play one character and 01:41:46.920 --> 01:41:50.560 take a break from while and play something else until next season? 01:41:50.560 --> 01:41:52.000 So first of all, there's nothing wrong with that. 01:41:52.000 --> 01:41:55.320 In fact, if you were to, there's no official study on this, 01:41:55.320 --> 01:41:59.480 but if you were to find out who the most happy 01:41:59.480 --> 01:42:02.200 wild players are, those are those people. 01:42:02.200 --> 01:42:04.320 People who play wild while it's fun for a season 01:42:04.320 --> 01:42:05.280 and hang out with their friends, 01:42:05.280 --> 01:42:06.840 and then they kind of move on for a few months 01:42:06.840 --> 01:42:08.640 and then come back for the next one. 01:42:08.640 --> 01:42:10.760 Like, typically the unhappiest people 01:42:10.760 --> 01:42:12.560 are the ones that are trying to have it 01:42:12.560 --> 01:42:15.600 be the only thing that entertains them for six months. 01:42:15.600 --> 01:42:17.800 Now, it's bad, you ask who's it bad for? 01:42:17.800 --> 01:42:19.360 It's bad for Blizzard when you do that. 01:42:19.360 --> 01:42:20.960 That's the reason they want your sub, right? 01:42:20.960 --> 01:42:23.860 Why do you think they want you to log in at the start of every month for the trading 01:42:23.860 --> 01:42:28.420 post or why do you think they add so many extra things in the 0.5 and 0.7 patch now? 01:42:28.420 --> 01:42:32.180 Because they want to appease those players and they want to turn you into someone that 01:42:32.180 --> 01:42:36.460 is using WoW all six months for your entertainment before the next season comes out. 01:42:36.460 --> 01:42:37.900 But it's also really hard to do that. 01:42:37.900 --> 01:42:40.860 It's really hard for any game to do that, by the way, unless you're just, like, 01:42:40.860 --> 01:42:46.940 not familiar with a lot of other games and genres and stuff, but Max, I'm 01:42:46.940 --> 01:42:51.100 I'm a very happy person and I play WoW without taking breaks, okay? 01:42:51.100 --> 01:42:52.980 All right, whatever you say, bro. 01:42:52.980 --> 01:42:54.340 It's cool. 01:42:54.340 --> 01:42:56.860 Rose of Codex in Curse of More Tech and whatnot, 01:42:56.860 --> 01:42:58.300 that this is sort of the agreed upon. 01:42:58.300 --> 01:43:02.500 Like, this is how itemization or progression will always work. 01:43:02.500 --> 01:43:04.380 We're always gonna keep making adjustments. 01:43:04.380 --> 01:43:06.380 We're always gonna keep listening to feedback 01:43:06.380 --> 01:43:07.300 that comes from- 01:43:07.300 --> 01:43:12.300 This is completely not related to this topic right now. 01:43:12.300 --> 01:43:14.340 But can we talk about how at the end of season one, 01:43:14.340 --> 01:43:20.240 Everyone was saying Method is like going to win the race and more specifically, because 01:43:20.240 --> 01:43:24.560 this isn't Method Slander, how everyone was saying what happened to Echo? 01:43:24.560 --> 01:43:25.560 What's wrong? 01:43:25.560 --> 01:43:26.560 Where's Echo? 01:43:26.560 --> 01:43:27.560 What's happening? 01:43:27.560 --> 01:43:30.120 And literally the only thing that happened was Echo prioritized doing their splits in 01:43:30.120 --> 01:43:35.800 a different order where they did more two out of eight mythics before doing Vashnik 01:43:35.800 --> 01:43:39.480 and they ended up with more gear than anyone else after the first week. 01:43:39.480 --> 01:43:41.560 So they literally did splits the best. 01:43:41.560 --> 01:43:46.200 the narrative was, where is Echo? How is Echo doing this and also methods on a heater? 01:43:46.760 --> 01:43:51.400 Can we just talk? Have you guys acknowledged like any caught any people caught in chat? 01:43:51.400 --> 01:43:54.760 You're like, fuck, that was me. I'm totally like, like, what happened with 01:43:56.120 --> 01:43:59.960 with that? You know, like I, I swear that was like the narrative was everywhere. 01:43:59.960 --> 01:44:01.720 And like that first mythic week, bro, like 01:44:11.560 --> 01:44:13.560 Look the echo slander was crazy 01:44:28.280 --> 01:44:31.640 Max I just always wanted liquid to win and didn't care about anything else lol 01:44:31.640 --> 01:44:36.760 It's not that deep bro my goat the community and also just injecting novelty into the also 01:44:36.760 --> 01:44:39.520 That's you guys by the way, and you just really just want liquid to win 01:44:39.520 --> 01:44:42.680 And I'm sorry for what you had to witness for the first two weeks of this race. 01:44:42.680 --> 01:44:44.920 I promise you it wasn't fun doing it either. 01:44:44.920 --> 01:44:51.920 I know it probably wasn't fun watching us be that bad, but yeah, we'll try not to do that again. 01:44:51.920 --> 01:44:56.120 Because there lies danger when we say we have solved character progression. 01:44:56.120 --> 01:44:57.720 This is how it's going to work for forever. 01:44:57.720 --> 01:45:00.720 We're always going to be looking for either new ideas or looking back to the past 01:45:00.720 --> 01:45:06.320 for inspiration from systems like artifact power or systems from other itemizations tools 01:45:06.320 --> 01:45:07.620 that we've used in the past. 01:45:07.620 --> 01:45:10.340 So, yeah, it would be great to hear feedback from folks 01:45:10.340 --> 01:45:14.180 and also know that these are balancing issues 01:45:14.180 --> 01:45:16.940 that we keep in mind as we're starting to plan 01:45:16.940 --> 01:45:18.140 what we're building next. 01:45:19.460 --> 01:45:20.300 Perfect answer. 01:45:20.300 --> 01:45:22.100 I think that that kind of encompasses 01:45:22.100 --> 01:45:25.580 like the satisfaction of what it means to play in MMO. 01:45:25.580 --> 01:45:28.140 That's always gonna be a tough thing. 01:45:28.140 --> 01:45:29.660 Also kind of keeping in the same vein, 01:45:29.660 --> 01:45:33.100 recently the 12.1 patch, there's some gear that is, 01:45:33.100 --> 01:45:36.020 in kind of a similar track, like nine out of six myth, 01:45:36.020 --> 01:45:38.340 players are starting to dub this as like myth two. 01:45:38.340 --> 01:45:41.020 And Ian, you had a recent cyber interview where you- 01:45:41.020 --> 01:45:42.340 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:45:42.340 --> 01:45:44.100 Dude, I'm gonna be honest, 01:45:44.100 --> 01:45:46.380 when I saw them do the nine out of six mythic loot, 01:45:46.380 --> 01:45:50.820 I thought there was a like 10% chance 01:45:50.820 --> 01:45:52.100 that that actually went live, 01:45:52.100 --> 01:45:54.140 because so many people weren't mad about it. 01:45:54.140 --> 01:45:55.820 Even though it makes sense, like, 01:45:57.900 --> 01:46:00.980 for example, does it make sense 01:46:00.980 --> 01:46:02.500 that Coiled Alter on Mythic 01:46:02.500 --> 01:46:05.820 would have dropped one mythic track higher 01:46:05.820 --> 01:46:10.100 So like instead of three out of six, it would have been four out of six loot than 01:46:11.380 --> 01:46:13.420 twin fangs due to its difficulty. 01:46:13.460 --> 01:46:18.140 Like no, if you're doing the RPG, like you try to match the difficulty with the 01:46:18.140 --> 01:46:20.660 reward, like no, it would be higher than that. 01:46:20.700 --> 01:46:22.700 But is it supposed to be nine out of six? 01:46:23.300 --> 01:46:25.660 That's a fucking crazy jump. 01:46:25.860 --> 01:46:28.540 Like they're not, and they're also doing the very rare thing again. 01:46:28.700 --> 01:46:33.100 They're doing the very rare super OP item bit again, but not only that, 01:46:33.100 --> 01:46:47.100 They're also just giga-eye level, and even though you could convince yourself from a game design standpoint that something like that makes sense, it's still just so polarizing that I'm surprised they even went through with it, honestly. 01:46:47.100 --> 01:46:51.840 Like really, for a lot of player gear is a means to an end staying in line with character progression. 01:46:51.840 --> 01:46:58.140 How do you make your gear feel rewarding yet not impede players goals with the content itself? 01:46:58.140 --> 01:47:01.920 I know those things like crafting the vault and the catalyst make it hard to feel like you earned the gear, 01:47:01.920 --> 01:47:05.020 but also there's like an apathy that some players have, or they're like, 01:47:05.020 --> 01:47:06.380 I can't play the game if I don't have it. 01:47:07.760 --> 01:47:11.400 I mean, yeah, I think it's an example of a compromise there. 01:47:11.400 --> 01:47:14.120 This is so far, 13 minutes in. 01:47:16.620 --> 01:47:20.960 Like these first three questions are like all within the top five questions I would want him to ask. 01:47:20.960 --> 01:47:22.720 Nice. And there's so many systems. 01:47:22.720 --> 01:47:27.120 The give players a deterministic path towards the items that they want. 01:47:27.120 --> 01:47:31.040 Void cores being available from the start of the season now, you know, 01:47:31.040 --> 01:47:34.260 and I just want to roll out the second half of last season or a piece of that. 01:47:34.260 --> 01:47:39.760 So yeah, on the one hand, it's easier than ever to get the vast majority of the year. 01:47:39.760 --> 01:47:41.480 Yeah, actually, hold on. 01:47:41.480 --> 01:47:44.160 First of all, he looks insanely grumpy in this picture 01:47:44.160 --> 01:47:46.280 for some reason, Tettles. 01:47:46.280 --> 01:47:47.960 Has he been hitting this frown for like more 01:47:47.960 --> 01:47:48.880 than a couple of seconds? 01:47:48.880 --> 01:47:51.320 So yeah, on the one hand, it's easier than ever 01:47:51.320 --> 01:47:54.840 to get the vast majority of the gear that you want. 01:47:54.840 --> 01:47:56.280 I did just pause screen him. 01:47:56.280 --> 01:47:57.960 He looks so upset. 01:47:57.960 --> 01:48:00.200 Okay, but dude, I feel like you guys, 01:48:00.200 --> 01:48:01.560 you guys take Tettles for granted. 01:48:01.560 --> 01:48:02.760 Like, Tettles will just say something 01:48:02.760 --> 01:48:04.040 a little zany one time, 01:48:04.040 --> 01:48:06.280 and you'll just be like, fuck Tettles, 01:48:06.280 --> 01:48:09.400 fuck Moonkins, and you just get so mad. 01:48:09.400 --> 01:48:12.840 Oh, fucking Wii U Wii U, Tettles made a take, shut up. 01:48:12.840 --> 01:48:15.900 Like, you just cannot stand this guy. 01:48:15.900 --> 01:48:17.660 And then like when he's his normal self 01:48:17.660 --> 01:48:19.720 and just asking good, he's just creating good content, 01:48:19.720 --> 01:48:20.920 you're like, dude, I fucking loved it. 01:48:20.920 --> 01:48:22.600 Dude, Tettles my goat, I love this guy. 01:48:22.600 --> 01:48:25.160 How do you guys switch up so much? 01:48:25.160 --> 01:48:27.040 On the other hand, yes, for many players, 01:48:27.040 --> 01:48:28.640 gear is a means to an end. 01:48:28.640 --> 01:48:31.280 There are other players, including players who do high-end 01:48:31.280 --> 01:48:33.520 plus who are doing with the grading 01:48:33.520 --> 01:48:35.360 for whom the gear is part of the end. 01:48:35.360 --> 01:48:36.200 It's not a whole thing. 01:48:36.200 --> 01:48:37.040 Speaking of Moonkins, by the way, 01:48:37.040 --> 01:48:41.920 Have they ever been so fucking back in as far as raiding? 01:48:41.920 --> 01:48:46.920 I feel like their value on Ullatech, they have not had a boss like this since Sylvanas. 01:48:46.920 --> 01:48:48.720 Right, and they want the best loot. 01:48:48.720 --> 01:48:49.720 That's part of what's exciting. 01:48:49.720 --> 01:48:55.960 It's part of what makes it worthwhile to spend 20 hours wiping through a boss at the 01:48:55.960 --> 01:48:57.900 end of a tier with your guild. 01:48:57.900 --> 01:49:00.280 You want to feel like you're getting an upgrade for that. 01:49:00.280 --> 01:49:03.000 You want to feel like you're getting something particularly powerful. 01:49:03.000 --> 01:49:06.760 It is kind of a bummer to clear a tier. 01:49:06.760 --> 01:49:08.560 you get your cutting edge achievements, 01:49:08.560 --> 01:49:10.040 maybe you can get your Hall of Fame achievement 01:49:10.040 --> 01:49:11.360 and you're looking at the boss corpse 01:49:11.360 --> 01:49:13.240 and it's like, eh, it's actually not, 01:49:13.240 --> 01:49:14.640 that part's not that exciting. 01:49:14.640 --> 01:49:16.280 And so we wanted to make sure that it was 01:49:16.280 --> 01:49:17.360 and that it would be. 01:49:17.360 --> 01:49:19.800 These are, it's a small handful of items, 01:49:19.800 --> 01:49:22.000 but yet they're meant to be the best around 01:49:22.000 --> 01:49:25.000 and that should represent a milestone 01:49:25.000 --> 01:49:26.360 for everyone to strive for. 01:49:29.200 --> 01:49:31.560 Mythic Plus, pivoting a little bit to Mythic Plus. 01:49:31.560 --> 01:49:33.160 Mythic Plus gearing assignment 01:49:33.160 --> 01:49:34.480 continues to be pretty low cap 01:49:34.480 --> 01:49:36.680 since you're kind of beholden to the vault. 01:49:36.680 --> 01:49:38.840 to be able to get myth track pieces of gear, 01:49:38.840 --> 01:49:40.400 but yet at the exact same time it's insanely strong 01:49:40.400 --> 01:49:44.000 since it's the only source of no lockout hero track gear. 01:49:44.000 --> 01:49:46.680 Are there any plans on making like a Mythic Plus vertical 01:49:46.680 --> 01:49:47.520 from a gearing perspective, 01:49:47.520 --> 01:49:48.740 allowing it to be more consistent 01:49:48.740 --> 01:49:50.740 with other gearing options in the game? 01:49:52.200 --> 01:49:54.140 I was wondering if you could sort of elaborate 01:49:54.140 --> 01:49:55.520 what you mean on Mythic Plus vertical. 01:49:55.520 --> 01:49:58.320 I think it sounds like an interesting idea, but. 01:49:58.320 --> 01:50:01.840 So like Mythic Plus players, I'll make a pitch. 01:50:01.840 --> 01:50:03.880 It's like Mythic Plus players, 01:50:03.880 --> 01:50:08.200 They, let's say they get one piece of myth track year a week 01:50:08.200 --> 01:50:10.920 from the vault, and then they get half a piece 01:50:10.920 --> 01:50:13.040 of myth track year a week from crafting. 01:50:13.040 --> 01:50:14.720 You can craft every other week. 01:50:14.720 --> 01:50:16.840 And so for them, whenever you compare them 01:50:16.840 --> 01:50:19.520 to their peers who are also doing high-end content 01:50:19.520 --> 01:50:21.960 and say raid, the people who are doing raid consistently 01:50:21.960 --> 01:50:23.560 are going to be getting significantly more loot, 01:50:23.560 --> 01:50:25.440 which is, I mean, it's just how it works, 01:50:25.440 --> 01:50:28.400 you know, mythic bosses drop mythic pieces of gear. 01:50:28.400 --> 01:50:30.240 And also the last two bosses 01:50:30.240 --> 01:50:32.080 dropped like next expansions gear, yeah. 01:50:32.080 --> 01:50:36.560 There is a level where players are going to be doing a 10, 01:50:36.560 --> 01:50:39.160 and they can get a mid-track piece from that. 01:50:39.160 --> 01:50:40.720 But players who want to push past that, 01:50:40.720 --> 01:50:43.760 the only sense of accomplishment is related 01:50:43.760 --> 01:50:45.400 toward achievement-based progression. 01:50:45.400 --> 01:50:48.760 You're pushing for your 3,400, you're 0.1% rewards. 01:50:48.760 --> 01:50:52.560 While those are, in my opinion, fantastic, 01:50:52.560 --> 01:50:54.600 there's no gear that's dashed with it. 01:50:54.600 --> 01:50:58.000 At the end of the day, a lot of people just play 01:50:58.000 --> 01:50:59.240 because they love the gearing. 01:50:59.240 --> 01:51:03.760 And feeling like there isn't like a full vertical 01:51:03.760 --> 01:51:06.200 for getting the best track of gear from Mythic Plus. 01:51:06.200 --> 01:51:08.000 I've seen that cause strife from people who... 01:51:08.000 --> 01:51:11.720 Why does a plus 35 not drop nine out of six Mythic loot? 01:51:11.720 --> 01:51:12.680 Let me guys ask you a question. 01:51:12.680 --> 01:51:14.880 How many guilds have killed Mythic Google Tech? 01:51:20.720 --> 01:51:21.640 Three? 01:51:21.640 --> 01:51:22.480 Okay. 01:51:22.480 --> 01:51:25.720 How many Mythic Plus teams have timed a plus 70? 01:51:29.240 --> 01:51:38.240 this season. Zero, I rest my case. Maybe don't want to step foot into RAID specifically, Aimee. 01:51:38.240 --> 01:51:46.240 So I think that there are, it's designed that there are pros and cons of each of these gearing 01:51:46.240 --> 01:51:50.240 tracks and a little bit of healthy envy that goes both ways. 01:51:50.240 --> 01:51:53.240 So Mythic Plus is harder. How can you argue otherwise? 01:51:53.240 --> 01:51:58.200 out or looking at Mythic Plus players early in the season who are like decking themselves out in 01:51:58.200 --> 01:52:03.880 in gear, the flip side, yeah, there's some envy that goes the other way obviously. I think one 01:52:05.240 --> 01:52:10.120 distinguishing feature of like the high and competitive ecosystems of raids and dungeons 01:52:10.120 --> 01:52:15.000 are that like raiding competitions about doing it as early as possible and front-loaded at the 01:52:15.000 --> 01:52:20.120 start of the season. Whereas when it really comes down to the wire, you know, Mythic Plus 01:52:20.120 --> 01:52:26.840 prestige is at the back end of the season and in that sense the fact that you know it may take 01:52:26.840 --> 01:52:32.360 longer it does take longer for a mythic plus player to like acquire something closer to their 01:52:32.360 --> 01:52:38.360 best setup through these incremental sources isn't actually out of step with that it's like 01:52:38.360 --> 01:52:42.200 yeah I get that everyone wants everything early and then people would prefer to have 01:52:42.200 --> 01:52:46.840 more mythic pieces you know week four this season but like whenever it comes down to it 01:52:46.840 --> 01:52:52.600 you're not being measured, you're not having to compete in a final sense at that point in the season. 01:52:52.600 --> 01:52:57.320 It is much later on. Now, you know, some of that can touch back on some of the nine of six pieces 01:52:57.320 --> 01:53:02.760 that we talked about. Yeah. And yeah, it's nothing new that there are a handful of items 01:53:02.760 --> 01:53:06.680 from raiding that are desirable for dungeon players, just as there are a handful of items 01:53:06.680 --> 01:53:11.880 from dungeons. It's way different than that, right? Both paths can be completed thoroughly. 01:53:11.880 --> 01:53:16.200 Like, okay, these two things are not the same. So there are items from raid that Mythic 01:53:16.200 --> 01:53:21.640 Plusers will want that hasn't changed but like how much better it is than the alternative has never 01:53:21.640 --> 01:53:27.720 been hired dungeon stuff is worse this season it seems relatively and the stuff from raid is like 01:53:27.720 --> 01:53:33.480 Astro OP like anything off the last two bosses on mythic is going to make your character a 01:53:33.480 --> 01:53:39.160 fucking freak beast compared to being in mythic plus loot even on myth track like and it's never 01:53:39.160 --> 01:53:43.240 been bigger it's not even just the very rare dap like in like the first season of like 01:53:43.240 --> 01:53:44.240 like Vault of the Incarnates. 01:53:44.240 --> 01:53:46.040 You need all the infinity stone pieces. 01:53:46.040 --> 01:53:47.000 It has that. 01:53:47.000 --> 01:53:48.680 It has all the cantrip items. 01:53:48.680 --> 01:53:52.040 And it's like nuclear eye level gap, like it's a- 01:53:52.040 --> 01:53:54.920 It all levels without that crossover. 01:53:54.920 --> 01:53:56.480 But yeah, if you're pushing for a title, 01:53:56.480 --> 01:54:00.320 if you're pushing for the top 0.1% in the entire game, 01:54:00.320 --> 01:54:02.920 I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that you consider- 01:54:02.920 --> 01:54:06.480 Ooh, okay, Ian, Ian, Ian saying, 01:54:06.480 --> 01:54:08.160 if you're trying to push to the 1% 01:54:08.160 --> 01:54:09.240 in any part of this game, 01:54:09.240 --> 01:54:13.220 it is not too much to ask that you do both. 01:54:13.220 --> 01:54:15.460 I think, hold on. 01:54:15.460 --> 01:54:17.960 We're here that are desirable for dungeon players, 01:54:17.960 --> 01:54:19.140 just as they're hand-hold on. 01:54:19.140 --> 01:54:21.540 From dungeons, they're desirable for raiders. 01:54:21.540 --> 01:54:22.380 Hold on. 01:54:22.380 --> 01:54:25.600 Both paths can be completed thoroughly at all levels 01:54:25.600 --> 01:54:27.340 without that crossover. 01:54:27.340 --> 01:54:28.900 But yeah, if you're pushing for a title, 01:54:28.900 --> 01:54:32.740 if you're pushing for the top 0.1% in the entire game, 01:54:32.740 --> 01:54:34.500 I don't think it's unreasonable to ask 01:54:34.500 --> 01:54:36.100 that you consider branching out 01:54:36.100 --> 01:54:38.460 and using some of the vast network of great players 01:54:38.460 --> 01:54:40.020 that you've surely encountered 01:54:40.020 --> 01:54:42.220 in your high-key pushing 01:54:42.220 --> 01:54:44.140 and also tri-rating. 01:54:46.540 --> 01:54:48.580 Did, is he cooking? 01:54:48.580 --> 01:54:50.240 One second, let's ask Dorky. 01:54:52.340 --> 01:54:53.540 Is he cooking? 01:54:57.060 --> 01:54:59.660 Yo, I'm in a key right now. 01:54:59.660 --> 01:55:00.580 You're in a key? 01:55:01.820 --> 01:55:02.660 Is it a hard key? 01:55:02.660 --> 01:55:03.980 Yeah, we're up. 01:55:04.980 --> 01:55:06.620 Let's just say 18 murder roll. 01:55:06.620 --> 01:55:07.700 Is that high? 01:55:09.820 --> 01:55:11.940 It's like mid-core, I would say. 01:55:12.220 --> 01:55:16.420 So can you answer can you not like the difficulty of like mythics and things? 01:55:18.580 --> 01:55:22.460 Okay, so it's absolutely terrible got it. Okay, but 01:55:24.060 --> 01:55:27.620 Okay, I haven't even like talked with you since the end of the race. We haven't done a podcast yet 01:55:27.620 --> 01:55:29.620 But I do you have any rebuttal to what 01:55:29.900 --> 01:55:34.060 Ian just said it is it is not unfair to ask 01:55:35.060 --> 01:55:40.940 People who are trying to push the top point one percent of mythic plus to also raid to to get these items your thoughts 01:55:42.220 --> 01:55:48.220 Yeah, but it's not about the difficulty of rating, it's how much of a fucking job and 01:55:48.220 --> 01:55:49.220 a chore it is. 01:55:49.220 --> 01:55:54.340 Like, bro, you have to apply to guilds, you have to have a resume, you have to make sure 01:55:54.340 --> 01:55:59.260 you have experience, you need to interview with them, you need to be there for set days. 01:55:59.260 --> 01:56:02.220 Like, bro, I'm just trying to play a fucking video game, I'm not trying to work a goddamn 01:56:02.220 --> 01:56:03.220 job. 01:56:03.220 --> 01:56:05.460 But aren't you trying to be at the top of the video game? 01:56:05.460 --> 01:56:08.460 Yeah, it doesn't mean you're trying to work a goddamn job, like if you're 01:56:08.460 --> 01:56:12.020 You're playing League of Legends and you're not out here working a job. 01:56:12.020 --> 01:56:15.820 You can still be one of the best League of Legends players about working a job. 01:56:15.820 --> 01:56:19.660 Wait, is that true? 01:56:19.660 --> 01:56:20.660 Of course. 01:56:20.660 --> 01:56:21.660 Is it, though? 01:56:21.660 --> 01:56:22.660 Just solo queue. 01:56:22.660 --> 01:56:23.660 But like... 01:56:23.660 --> 01:56:25.660 Oh, I shouldn't have owned, holy fuck. 01:56:25.660 --> 01:56:28.660 All right, all right, I'll let you focus on that, see you later. 01:56:28.660 --> 01:56:31.660 I hung up on him. 01:56:31.660 --> 01:56:32.660 And... 01:56:32.660 --> 01:56:35.060 By the way, I don't... 01:56:35.060 --> 01:56:37.100 I'm not familiar with the league scene. 01:56:37.100 --> 01:56:43.100 But if you're a waging league, aren't you going to get absolutely turbo blasted by some 01:56:43.100 --> 01:56:48.260 dude that doesn't leave his basement? 01:56:48.260 --> 01:56:52.180 People who have been able to get title without, you know, without those advantages, but every 01:56:52.180 --> 01:56:54.100 bit helps and that's understood. 01:56:54.100 --> 01:56:55.100 Like not always. 01:56:55.100 --> 01:56:57.820 Like that guy just started playing, but like two people have both been playing for two 01:56:57.820 --> 01:56:58.820 years. 01:56:58.820 --> 01:57:01.100 One plays for four, four hours after work. 01:57:01.100 --> 01:57:04.140 The other one plays 16 hours a day. 01:57:04.140 --> 01:57:08.140 likelihood like if you run that simulation like out of a million times 01:57:08.140 --> 01:57:11.300 maybe the other player is just like so insanely talented and the guy who's 01:57:11.300 --> 01:57:13.140 playing all day every day is just an idiot 01:57:13.140 --> 01:57:18.660 wait he's calling one second what's up hold on bro I just wiped you the job 01:57:18.660 --> 01:57:23.020 doesn't mean okay I'll be all right I love below these fucking idiots in chat 01:57:23.020 --> 01:57:26.820 first of all hold on we're gonna job doesn't mean you can't play 24 hours a 01:57:26.820 --> 01:57:30.260 day like you can work you can play 24 hours a day and it's still not a job 01:57:30.260 --> 01:57:32.260 There's a difference yep 01:57:33.820 --> 01:57:35.820 Yep 01:57:38.020 --> 01:57:41.780 That's all they'll say did you oh you fucking hung up. I mean god damn it 01:57:44.940 --> 01:57:46.940 Wait what happened with course um 01:57:47.660 --> 01:57:51.820 In the same realm of satisfaction actually one talk about expansion launches and patches a little bit in the past 01:57:51.820 --> 01:57:57.780 I would say expansion launches for World of Warcraft has meant that everybody was in the same zone kind of the same power and players who 01:57:57.780 --> 01:58:01.620 fell out of the game, this was the time where they felt like they had a pretty easy jumping 01:58:01.620 --> 01:58:04.220 and point was like the beginning of an expansion. 01:58:04.220 --> 01:58:08.140 Something that I've noticed that as expansion launches and patches have gone on, basically 01:58:08.140 --> 01:58:11.820 since Dragonfly is kind of when I notice this, they feel very similar where catch-up 01:58:11.820 --> 01:58:14.220 is fast, the in-game pillars are all fairly continuous. 01:58:14.220 --> 01:58:17.380 Wait, is this argument going to be that it's actually harder for someone to jump 01:58:17.380 --> 01:58:20.100 into the game because they feel like they haven't been here since the beginning 01:58:20.100 --> 01:58:24.140 of Dragonflight and had had these systems like all like add-on one by one rather 01:58:24.140 --> 01:58:25.660 than it just being like brand new? 01:58:25.660 --> 01:58:27.940 and everybody can jump in and out as they please. 01:58:27.940 --> 01:58:29.260 Now that has resulted in many patches 01:58:29.260 --> 01:58:32.300 since Dragonflight, feeling like extensions of a similar. 01:58:32.300 --> 01:58:33.140 Yeah, it does. 01:58:33.140 --> 01:58:35.540 It feels like Dragonflight too and Dragonflight for you. 01:58:35.540 --> 01:58:39.020 For some people, instead of like brand new experiences. 01:58:40.780 --> 01:58:42.700 But weren't there problems before that though, 01:58:42.700 --> 01:58:45.940 where like the expansions were so different 01:58:45.940 --> 01:58:47.260 and it felt like you were throwing away 01:58:47.260 --> 01:58:49.500 so many good things just to like start like, 01:58:49.500 --> 01:58:51.380 like I know you guys and remember the feeling 01:58:51.380 --> 01:58:53.460 of like leveling up in BFA 01:58:53.460 --> 01:58:57.500 with the dog shit initial artifact or as a right armor 01:58:57.500 --> 01:58:59.960 and you lost like your entire everything 01:58:59.960 --> 01:59:01.500 that was cooking by the end of Legion 01:59:01.500 --> 01:59:02.340 and it was just gone 01:59:02.340 --> 01:59:04.660 and it was like, holy fuck this game feels so much worse 01:59:04.660 --> 01:59:06.920 but maybe the argument is it's easier to jump in 01:59:06.920 --> 01:59:08.260 because it's all new. 01:59:08.260 --> 01:59:09.100 Like someone else. 01:59:09.100 --> 01:59:09.940 I think it kind of included that wow as healthy 01:59:09.940 --> 01:59:11.380 there was like one continuous evolving game 01:59:11.380 --> 01:59:13.300 instead of having massive shake ups 01:59:13.300 --> 01:59:14.860 because I remember like the olden days 01:59:14.860 --> 01:59:16.620 like going from one to Legion was like an insane 01:59:16.620 --> 01:59:18.500 difference just in terms of all of the stuff 01:59:18.500 --> 01:59:19.340 that you got. 01:59:19.340 --> 01:59:27.660 Yeah, when it comes to resets per patch or resets per expansion, a lot of that is intentional 01:59:27.660 --> 01:59:28.660 for sure. 01:59:28.660 --> 01:59:31.060 Like you pointed out to make sure that folks have a good jumping on point. 01:59:31.060 --> 01:59:33.980 If you are a new player, you want to bring some of your new friends in and you don't 01:59:33.980 --> 01:59:37.620 want them to feel like they're already starting miles behind or someone who just dropped 01:59:37.620 --> 01:59:40.860 a patch or dropped an expansion wants to jump in, that it's easy for them to be 01:59:40.860 --> 01:59:41.860 able to catch up. 01:59:41.860 --> 01:59:45.300 But I think what you're talking about is something that we also talk about as 01:59:45.300 --> 01:59:48.260 well which is like there is something nice to carry something forward one season 01:59:48.260 --> 01:59:49.260 to the next. 01:59:49.260 --> 01:59:52.020 if you have invested a lot in the previous season 01:59:52.020 --> 01:59:54.740 that you should feel like you have something to carry forward. 01:59:54.740 --> 01:59:56.720 We've seen some of that when things like legendaries 01:59:56.720 --> 01:59:58.020 in the past, right, where like these are things 01:59:58.020 --> 02:00:02.660 which do naturally carry forward from one patch to the next, 02:00:02.660 --> 02:00:05.820 maybe even expansion to the next in some cases, I'm sure. 02:00:05.820 --> 02:00:08.140 But having folks be able to carry some of that power forward. 02:00:08.140 --> 02:00:09.420 So this is something we do talk about 02:00:09.420 --> 02:00:13.060 as we look at sort of the cadence of our patches 02:00:13.060 --> 02:00:16.180 and our seasons as they roll out. 02:00:16.180 --> 02:00:20.440 more broadly speaking, big monumental changes 02:00:20.440 --> 02:00:24.460 for the way that gearing works, the way that system works. 02:00:24.460 --> 02:00:26.680 I mean, we're going to continue iterating. 02:00:26.680 --> 02:00:28.840 I think you're absolutely right that that change 02:00:28.840 --> 02:00:32.960 from Warlords into Legion was a huge one. 02:00:32.960 --> 02:00:34.600 Ian, correct me on my date if I'm wrong, 02:00:34.600 --> 02:00:37.600 but I think there was also a 13 month content gap 02:00:37.600 --> 02:00:40.120 between the final patch of... 02:00:40.120 --> 02:00:41.080 Pretty close to that, yeah. 02:00:41.080 --> 02:00:43.640 Yeah, of Warlords and Legion. 02:00:43.640 --> 02:00:45.200 And so there is some correlation there 02:00:45.200 --> 02:00:49.200 with the amount of change that you see all happening at once. 02:00:49.200 --> 02:00:53.920 There's a lot of changes that you go into World of Warcraft, 02:00:53.920 --> 02:00:58.880 but you see them happening in more often updates now, 02:00:58.880 --> 02:01:01.040 or more frequent updates where we do. 02:01:01.040 --> 02:01:04.080 Puzzlebox is one thing I really didn't want to carry forward. 02:01:04.080 --> 02:01:07.960 I feel like Puzzlebox is unfairly hated. 02:01:07.960 --> 02:01:10.680 Like, I get you're casting it, but there is a benefit. 02:01:10.680 --> 02:01:12.880 You're getting way more fucking stats 02:01:12.880 --> 02:01:14.680 than you would get if you didn't cast it. 02:01:14.680 --> 02:01:17.320 You're saying like, oh, I wish there were worse trinkets 02:01:17.320 --> 02:01:21.480 this patch and I just pressed it and it just worked 02:01:21.480 --> 02:01:23.500 instead of casting it, but then you like wouldn't 02:01:23.500 --> 02:01:25.200 pop off as hard, you know? 02:01:25.200 --> 02:01:26.920 Like for me, there's a few classes I've played 02:01:26.920 --> 02:01:31.520 with the puzzle box where like it kind of feels amazing 02:01:31.520 --> 02:01:33.480 because you're going so crazy on it. 02:01:33.480 --> 02:01:36.200 And like if it had way less stats 02:01:36.200 --> 02:01:37.240 because it didn't have a cast, 02:01:37.240 --> 02:01:39.440 I don't know, it would feel like kind of whatever. 02:01:42.400 --> 02:01:43.880 Although I have weird trinket tanks, 02:01:43.880 --> 02:01:46.920 I also really loved playing with that Dathia trinket, 02:01:46.920 --> 02:01:49.720 like the one where you like become completely, 02:01:49.720 --> 02:01:53.960 can't move for 10 seconds, but like it does insane AoE. 02:01:54.960 --> 02:01:56.680 But only because I played classes 02:01:56.680 --> 02:01:58.520 that could like move during it. 02:01:58.520 --> 02:02:00.800 Like you could set down like a transcend during it. 02:02:00.800 --> 02:02:02.280 So you could like, 02:02:02.280 --> 02:02:03.960 there was like an interesting little mini game 02:02:03.960 --> 02:02:06.080 to like outplay dying to that thing. 02:02:06.080 --> 02:02:07.360 Yeah, boon, yeah. 02:02:07.360 --> 02:02:08.240 See these types of changes. 02:02:08.240 --> 02:02:10.120 So we may be boiling the frog at the same speed. 02:02:10.120 --> 02:02:12.160 It's just, you know, noticing it was quickly. 02:02:12.160 --> 02:02:15.140 Yeah, I think we just, I mean, with more frequent patches. 02:02:15.140 --> 02:02:17.140 Speaking of Teddles, here's a picture of Teddles 02:02:17.140 --> 02:02:18.280 after the race. 02:02:20.320 --> 02:02:21.580 You guys notice anything? 02:02:25.960 --> 02:02:27.840 Besides fired up looking dapper. 02:02:27.840 --> 02:02:28.680 Oh, that's weird. 02:02:28.680 --> 02:02:30.580 He's wearing my fucking jersey. 02:02:35.240 --> 02:02:36.520 Okay, back to the video. 02:02:37.480 --> 02:02:39.380 Also the ability to hot fix more. 02:02:39.380 --> 02:02:40.960 I think we see it as like, 02:02:40.960 --> 02:02:44.720 There's a really broad spectrum of like all the different tools 02:02:44.720 --> 02:02:47.040 and time scales we can operate on and how big 02:02:47.040 --> 02:02:49.280 and how potentially disruptive it changes. 02:02:49.280 --> 02:02:51.800 All right, so there's some things that based on feedback, 02:02:51.800 --> 02:02:53.440 we might just hot picks in. 02:02:53.440 --> 02:02:55.840 Other things might wait for a minor patch. 02:02:55.840 --> 02:02:58.620 Other things, you know, whether it's a class overhaul 02:02:58.620 --> 02:03:01.000 or a whole new reward progression system 02:03:01.000 --> 02:03:03.760 are gonna be something that we tend to drop in a new season. 02:03:03.760 --> 02:03:05.280 And then of course, things that are even bigger 02:03:05.280 --> 02:03:07.440 than that, you know, land in an expansion. 02:03:07.440 --> 02:03:10.360 But I think with more updates, more patches, 02:03:10.360 --> 02:03:13.120 We also have a chance to experiment a bit more 02:03:13.120 --> 02:03:14.920 and test drive some ideas, 02:03:14.920 --> 02:03:18.160 you know, reflecting like the Crest upgrade system 02:03:18.160 --> 02:03:20.320 was rolled out as a dragon flight specific system 02:03:20.320 --> 02:03:21.960 in the middle of dragon flight, right? 02:03:21.960 --> 02:03:24.920 Like, and that was something that me at the time 02:03:24.920 --> 02:03:27.440 built very heavily themed around dragon flight 02:03:27.440 --> 02:03:30.420 with the idea of like, if this doesn't work, 02:03:30.420 --> 02:03:31.260 we'll just kill it. 02:03:31.260 --> 02:03:33.880 And we won't have this going forward, 02:03:33.880 --> 02:03:34.880 which is like we have- 02:03:34.880 --> 02:03:37.160 It's weird seeing the puzzle box discourse. 02:03:37.160 --> 02:03:39.040 I don't remember having anything negative 02:03:39.040 --> 02:03:40.480 with Font of Power. 02:03:40.480 --> 02:03:43.600 Ooh, real facts. 02:03:43.600 --> 02:03:45.480 Isn't Font of Power basically the same thing, 02:03:45.480 --> 02:03:48.640 except instead of mastery or whatever its main stat? 02:03:48.640 --> 02:03:51.200 But Font of Power was like this really long cast, 02:03:51.200 --> 02:03:54.840 but it made you super strong after. 02:03:54.840 --> 02:03:56.720 They're both the same thing. 02:03:56.720 --> 02:03:58.240 It was twice as long, right? 02:03:59.120 --> 02:04:01.320 Could you move while you channeled it though? 02:04:07.420 --> 02:04:08.520 You couldn't move? 02:04:09.040 --> 02:04:16.320 Was it just that it was more powerful, but it's like do you understand though puzzle box is halfway in between a font 02:04:16.520 --> 02:04:21.080 It's half the cast time not as OP, but still way more OP than I don't know 02:04:21.080 --> 02:04:22.800 I think there's room for stuff like that in the game 02:04:22.800 --> 02:04:29.200 I think blizzard doesn't get enough credit for trinket design because like they could make a bunch of cool trinkets 02:04:29.200 --> 02:04:34.080 But if a robot doesn't tell you that it's the best one then like you just will never even know it exists 02:04:34.080 --> 02:04:36.720 And you end up just using the ones that are the same every tier 02:04:36.720 --> 02:04:42.040 They're like stat sticks or every now and then they come up with a cool one. They've kind of rotated the same for you now 02:04:44.080 --> 02:04:47.840 Right like the silken core trinket they just keep remaking that basically 02:04:49.560 --> 02:04:52.720 But I don't know I thought they've made some cool trinkets 02:04:52.720 --> 02:04:58.820 But the reality is that the trinket says like summons a Zandalari warrior to sweep your foes like 99% of the time 02:04:58.820 --> 02:05:02.120 It's dog shit, but if they ever make it really strong 02:05:02.120 --> 02:05:03.840 It's like really cool and it's different 02:05:03.840 --> 02:05:06.060 you know, but like it just has to come down to tuning. 02:05:06.060 --> 02:05:08.580 But I bet like you guys are bored of stat sticks, 02:05:08.580 --> 02:05:10.540 but I bet if there was a season where there weren't any 02:05:10.540 --> 02:05:13.300 stat sticks that were good, people would miss stat sticks. 02:05:13.300 --> 02:05:14.820 Not doing it for a new expansion, 02:05:14.820 --> 02:05:18.980 but like actually wanted to use a patch mid expansion 02:05:18.980 --> 02:05:20.180 to test it out with a bit more. 02:05:20.180 --> 02:05:22.460 Actually, I think that's the right balance for Trinket. 02:05:22.460 --> 02:05:24.060 It's like ideally the robot tells you 02:05:24.060 --> 02:05:26.700 that your best Trinket setup is like a passive stat stick 02:05:26.700 --> 02:05:28.580 and then a Trinket that's like cool and different, 02:05:28.580 --> 02:05:29.940 like one of each. 02:05:29.940 --> 02:05:30.780 Flexible. 02:05:30.780 --> 02:05:35.500 Two creative trinkets is too much. 02:05:35.500 --> 02:05:38.380 So that we could either refine it or back away from it. 02:05:38.380 --> 02:05:40.940 So really just taking advantage of the flexibility. 02:05:40.940 --> 02:05:42.100 By the way, quick shout out. 02:05:42.100 --> 02:05:44.380 If you like playing double-on-use trinkets, 02:05:44.380 --> 02:05:48.180 you should be institutionalized. 02:05:48.180 --> 02:05:51.020 But we have, while being mindful, 02:05:51.020 --> 02:05:53.100 that we don't want to completely disrupt the game, 02:05:53.100 --> 02:05:55.220 where you just log in one day and suddenly it 02:05:55.220 --> 02:05:58.300 feels like something drastic changed out from under you. 02:05:58.300 --> 02:05:59.020 Yeah, perfect. 02:05:59.020 --> 02:06:01.380 Thank you for that insightful commentary. 02:06:01.380 --> 02:06:03.900 I feel like that answered the question perfectly. 02:06:03.900 --> 02:06:06.740 Okay, so now jumping into Legendaries and Borrowed Power. 02:06:06.740 --> 02:06:11.260 Borrowed Power was a popular buzzword for people to skip this. 02:06:11.260 --> 02:06:12.100 Maybe we'll skip this. 02:06:12.100 --> 02:06:15.220 Negatively on the game, almost exclusively in like 2022. 02:06:15.220 --> 02:06:17.100 There is an interesting question I like to ask them 02:06:17.100 --> 02:06:18.020 about Legendaries. 02:06:18.020 --> 02:06:19.300 Where the launch of Dragonflight, 02:06:19.300 --> 02:06:20.380 there was like kind of a promise 02:06:20.380 --> 02:06:21.860 to remove Borrowed Power as we knew it. 02:06:21.860 --> 02:06:24.060 Since then, have there been considerations 02:06:24.060 --> 02:06:27.380 in order to bring back some long-term player grinds? 02:06:27.380 --> 02:06:28.420 Obviously it's gonna be, 02:06:28.420 --> 02:06:29.860 People are just going to call it borrowed power. 02:06:29.860 --> 02:06:31.260 I don't know if you're going to get away from that. 02:06:31.260 --> 02:06:32.740 But from an outside perspective, things 02:06:32.740 --> 02:06:34.980 like the Reshy Raps and the Cersei Circle and maybe 02:06:34.980 --> 02:06:37.260 in tier sets to a lesser degree are borrowed powers. 02:06:37.260 --> 02:06:39.420 So what is the internal line? 02:06:39.420 --> 02:06:41.740 And how has that been moving as time has gone on? 02:06:41.740 --> 02:06:45.300 Yeah, it's like alternate progression or borrowed power, 02:06:45.300 --> 02:06:48.180 however you want to refer to it. 02:06:48.180 --> 02:06:50.100 It does exist in some form when 02:06:50.100 --> 02:06:53.060 you look at things like, for sure, the Reshy Raps 02:06:53.060 --> 02:06:56.740 or Cersei Circle or more currently in the Omnium 02:06:56.740 --> 02:07:02.740 right where you have some progression as part of your character, which is going to exist for some time, 02:07:02.740 --> 02:07:05.740 and that it will not exist past midnight. 02:07:05.740 --> 02:07:10.740 The corrosive codexism were a focused one in patch 4.1 where it's focused on outdoor content, 02:07:10.740 --> 02:07:13.740 but still this is something which is going to be focused on 4.1 content 02:07:13.740 --> 02:07:20.740 and is not relevant outside of those spaces after that point. 02:07:20.740 --> 02:07:25.740 So I think the big difference is what you talked about with those long grinds, 02:07:25.740 --> 02:07:27.900 And this touches back on what Ian was mentioning earlier, 02:07:27.900 --> 02:07:31.340 where you have that sort of conflict between, 02:07:31.340 --> 02:07:32.760 do I prefer to play a single character 02:07:32.760 --> 02:07:34.980 versus do I prefer to maintain a stable of alts? 02:07:34.980 --> 02:07:38.660 And whenever you have that altered progression, 02:07:38.660 --> 02:07:40.340 which feels like it's compulsory, 02:07:40.340 --> 02:07:42.220 it's a big part of your progression, 02:07:42.220 --> 02:07:44.360 and it also takes a lot of time, 02:07:44.360 --> 02:07:46.260 then you start to see some of those pains that we saw. 02:07:46.260 --> 02:07:47.620 Back in the Legion era, right? 02:07:47.620 --> 02:07:50.300 Or we saw that like, oh, this actually makes it 02:07:50.300 --> 02:07:51.620 really hard for a lot of players to make sure 02:07:51.620 --> 02:07:54.140 that they're able to play the different characters 02:07:54.140 --> 02:07:55.220 that they want to be able to play, 02:07:55.220 --> 02:07:57.220 it because of the asks of the system. 02:07:57.220 --> 02:07:59.460 And then you'll also see some, 02:07:59.460 --> 02:08:01.900 this is actually as informed where the Ami-Ampolio came from 02:08:01.900 --> 02:08:03.900 is the amount of work that you're doing to get that 02:08:03.900 --> 02:08:07.540 makes sense in the time when it came out in 1207, 02:08:07.540 --> 02:08:10.660 where you were just doing a decent amount of work 02:08:10.660 --> 02:08:12.180 in that content of that patch 02:08:12.180 --> 02:08:14.140 to give your character some reasonable goals 02:08:14.140 --> 02:08:15.180 to work towards. 02:08:15.180 --> 02:08:17.140 But if you drop in to catch up now, 02:08:17.140 --> 02:08:18.180 it's not a huge amount of catch up. 02:08:18.180 --> 02:08:19.980 And more importantly, it is account-wide. 02:08:19.980 --> 02:08:21.580 So you don't have that sort of- 02:08:21.580 --> 02:08:22.860 I remember this. 02:08:22.860 --> 02:08:24.260 I wanna do the legendary thing. 02:08:24.260 --> 02:08:27.900 Now, talking about legendaries as well, one of the things that showed up a couple of times 02:08:27.900 --> 02:08:31.540 in Dragonflight were legendaries with Mizzero and Fear of Lath, both of them seemed to 02:08:31.540 --> 02:08:32.860 be, it was so- 02:08:32.860 --> 02:08:37.700 Tettles asks something along the lines of, can we ever have legendaries that feel cool 02:08:37.700 --> 02:08:38.700 again? 02:08:38.700 --> 02:08:42.060 If everyone feels like they have to get it, and because of that, it can't be like 02:08:42.060 --> 02:08:45.900 super powerful, like our legendaries really legendary, some shit like that, that's 02:08:45.900 --> 02:08:46.900 what I want to know. 02:08:46.900 --> 02:08:49.340 It was like they were like disliked by the community because they created this 02:08:49.340 --> 02:08:54.620 like weird scene where if you had them you felt like you played the game you 02:08:54.620 --> 02:08:57.340 could play the game and if you didn't have them you just like envied all the 02:08:57.340 --> 02:09:00.620 people that have them and then you wouldn't log in it has there been any 02:09:00.620 --> 02:09:03.860 like thoughts as to how to create legendaries potentially even for like a 02:09:03.860 --> 02:09:07.300 midnight expansion and kind of what needs to go into them to make them feel 02:09:07.300 --> 02:09:11.900 legendary yet not this like weird thing you have in the middle of the day 02:09:11.900 --> 02:09:14.740 just imagine if people had the mentality back in the day that like if 02:09:14.740 --> 02:09:17.900 you didn't have Warglaives you just couldn't play the game you couldn't 02:09:17.900 --> 02:09:22.940 even log in why why play if you can't have the best gear instantly right like 02:09:22.940 --> 02:09:27.820 that's a very like new phenomenon but because of that like if you're going to 02:09:27.820 --> 02:09:31.260 make something ultra ultra rare and almost no one has them you can also 02:09:31.260 --> 02:09:34.700 make them super fucking powerful it actually would be lame if they were 02:09:34.700 --> 02:09:37.980 super rare and they weren't really powerful but like right now just imagine 02:09:37.980 --> 02:09:41.500 they actually created something like that and only like two people in the 02:09:41.500 --> 02:09:44.620 region a few weeks in to have these legendaries but like they're just 02:09:44.620 --> 02:09:47.420 like way more powerful than everyone else everyone would riot but also 02:09:47.420 --> 02:09:51.740 Also because of that, legendaries can never feel cool if they have to be balanced. 02:09:51.740 --> 02:09:58.020 Yeah, those Dragonflight legendaries were in fact the last legendaries that have reared 02:09:58.020 --> 02:10:02.260 their ugly heads in World of Warcraft and so it's been a while. 02:10:02.260 --> 02:10:05.340 That is specific to announce at this point in terms of like legendaries coming in the 02:10:05.340 --> 02:10:08.780 future but it is something we talk about on the rewards team for sure in terms 02:10:08.780 --> 02:10:13.540 of like what best in class legendaries would be. 02:10:13.540 --> 02:10:16.300 I think a lot of the benefits of legendaries are for sure. 02:10:16.300 --> 02:10:18.400 It's just big and sparkly and orange, right? 02:10:18.400 --> 02:10:21.460 And it gives you something to look forward to, 02:10:21.460 --> 02:10:24.380 especially if it's something that is particularly iconic 02:10:24.380 --> 02:10:27.180 to your class or usable to your class or whatever. 02:10:27.180 --> 02:10:29.580 But also it gives your groups something to work forward to, 02:10:29.580 --> 02:10:32.380 especially if it's something that comes from group content 02:10:32.380 --> 02:10:34.300 like rating and what have you then. 02:10:34.300 --> 02:10:35.660 Even if it's not something for you, 02:10:35.660 --> 02:10:38.860 if you can get something to outfit your healer or your tank 02:10:38.860 --> 02:10:42.900 or one of your DPS members, to make your group stronger, 02:10:42.900 --> 02:10:44.020 able to hit your goals better, 02:10:44.020 --> 02:10:46.020 then I think there's something awesome about that, 02:10:46.020 --> 02:10:48.500 that we're going to work together to get this thing together. 02:10:48.500 --> 02:10:52.000 So when we look to designing systems like anything, 02:10:52.000 --> 02:10:54.380 but including legendaries, we do look to examples of the past 02:10:54.380 --> 02:10:56.460 for like, hey, what do people like about this? 02:10:56.460 --> 02:10:57.700 What were the pain points? 02:10:57.700 --> 02:10:59.960 How can we do things in a little bit differently 02:10:59.960 --> 02:11:02.540 in the future to make sure that it feels novel 02:11:02.540 --> 02:11:06.020 and also makes people happy, excited to log in? 02:11:06.020 --> 02:11:08.420 The only note that I would add there 02:11:08.420 --> 02:11:11.220 is definitely looking at the Dragonflight ones 02:11:11.220 --> 02:11:12.420 in particular. 02:11:12.420 --> 02:11:15.060 It's an interesting reflection on just the player psychology 02:11:15.060 --> 02:11:18.080 that I think probably informs how we would approach 02:11:18.080 --> 02:11:20.100 future efforts in that space. 02:11:20.100 --> 02:11:21.840 We're like, there's a tipping point. 02:11:21.840 --> 02:11:24.060 It was really fascinating to see like 02:11:24.060 --> 02:11:26.460 community sentiment around things like Pharrelleth 02:11:26.460 --> 02:11:27.300 and Ozero. 02:11:27.300 --> 02:11:28.900 Okay, before he answers this though, 02:11:28.900 --> 02:11:32.340 I do love the fact, I mean, maybe we're biased 02:11:32.340 --> 02:11:33.660 because we were a part of this, 02:11:33.660 --> 02:11:37.260 but like no one really knew how the legendary dropped, 02:11:37.260 --> 02:11:38.980 but then it was coded to drop 02:11:38.980 --> 02:11:42.060 on the first myth that kill in each region. 02:11:42.060 --> 02:11:43.540 So like when we killed the boss, 02:11:43.540 --> 02:11:50.040 we happen to get the legendary and then Sang got it who like 02:11:50.940 --> 02:11:55.340 and then the person who got the legendary would also like got to go do 02:11:56.140 --> 02:11:57.240 like content. 02:11:57.440 --> 02:12:00.040 They unlocked a quest line that was specific to the thing 02:12:00.040 --> 02:12:03.440 and they were like able to like go through that with a bunch of 02:12:03.440 --> 02:12:07.240 people in their stream and follow it with them. 02:12:07.540 --> 02:12:11.140 And that was like one of the coolest experiences because Sang 02:12:11.140 --> 02:12:15.060 is like the person in our guild who tells us all how to quest in the patch. He literally does the 02:12:15.060 --> 02:12:21.300 quest a hundred times over on PTR. He fucking loves this game and he was the person that got the 02:12:21.300 --> 02:12:26.260 legendary. He got to like unlock this quest line. He was probably the happiest he's ever been in his 02:12:26.260 --> 02:12:31.060 life and also everyone was like getting to the community was getting to watch him do it. Like 02:12:31.060 --> 02:12:35.620 that was like honestly one of the coolest. I loved how they did that. At least like I know 02:12:35.620 --> 02:12:38.980 like the the legendaries were problematic but the way they implemented it was actually like 02:12:38.980 --> 02:12:46.180 really cool. Very early on when it was like like literally only a few hundred 02:12:46.180 --> 02:12:49.100 people in the world have them or it was a single digit percent of players that 02:12:49.100 --> 02:12:53.140 have them overall sentiment was positive like most people didn't have it the 02:12:53.140 --> 02:12:57.420 people who did got to feel awesome the people who didn't many of them felt like 02:12:57.420 --> 02:13:01.500 hey it's awesome that something like this exists and I can't wait to get it 02:13:01.500 --> 02:13:06.140 myself that as that number increased over time right around when you got to 02:13:06.140 --> 02:13:10.740 to one third is when it started to feel like everyone was mad. 02:13:10.740 --> 02:13:13.180 Because at around that point, like you're now, 02:13:13.180 --> 02:13:14.860 there's people who are the only person in their guild 02:13:14.860 --> 02:13:17.180 who doesn't have it of that class, 02:13:17.180 --> 02:13:19.940 or you're joining groups and there's enough applicants 02:13:19.940 --> 02:13:21.980 to those groups who have them that 02:13:21.980 --> 02:13:23.540 you can actually feel this bad. 02:13:23.540 --> 02:13:25.500 Instead of it feeling like an aspirational goal 02:13:25.500 --> 02:13:27.180 or something that's exciting to have, 02:13:27.180 --> 02:13:29.660 you're just mad that you don't have it. 02:13:29.660 --> 02:13:30.780 Even if technically it was still 02:13:30.780 --> 02:13:32.740 the majority of players who didn't. 02:13:32.740 --> 02:13:37.100 And so like, no answers there, nothing to announce, 02:13:37.100 --> 02:13:39.100 but that's something we need to navigate 02:13:39.100 --> 02:13:42.140 in terms of like the method of how it's obtained 02:13:42.140 --> 02:13:43.580 and how it's rolled out. 02:13:43.580 --> 02:13:45.940 Cause that middle ground where there's a ton of people 02:13:45.940 --> 02:13:48.620 who want it, but it feels really common, 02:13:48.620 --> 02:13:49.820 we know just feels that. 02:13:51.020 --> 02:13:52.340 Yeah, I mean, it was insane. 02:13:52.340 --> 02:13:53.260 I'm glad they know that. 02:13:53.260 --> 02:13:54.940 There's like a history of what a legendary is 02:13:54.940 --> 02:13:56.020 and then sleep. 02:13:56.020 --> 02:13:57.540 Yeah, it was so strange. 02:13:57.540 --> 02:13:59.540 All right, moving a little bit forward. 02:14:00.540 --> 02:14:02.620 Not a bad reply for me. 02:14:02.620 --> 02:14:06.340 I have talked to this guy a decent amount 02:14:06.340 --> 02:14:09.060 and I have never been under the impression 02:14:09.060 --> 02:14:11.540 that he is not the smartest person in the room. 02:14:11.540 --> 02:14:12.860 I'll just tell you that. 02:14:12.860 --> 02:14:15.060 There's a reason he has that job. 02:14:15.060 --> 02:14:16.140 Sorry about add-ons a little bit. 02:14:16.140 --> 02:14:18.600 So one of the key messages I saw when add-on changes 02:14:18.600 --> 02:14:20.060 were originally announced during the midnight beta 02:14:20.060 --> 02:14:22.940 is that ideal situations 02:14:22.940 --> 02:14:24.300 that they don't create a competitive advantage 02:14:24.300 --> 02:14:27.540 for players, everyone I think would like 02:14:27.540 --> 02:14:28.900 to use the base UI as a default, 02:14:28.900 --> 02:14:30.100 but the feeling of being at a disadvantage 02:14:30.100 --> 02:14:32.180 causes social pressures a lot of the time 02:14:32.180 --> 02:14:35.580 download add-on to you. Bro you think he got his job if he wasn't smart as fuck? 02:14:35.580 --> 02:14:40.300 I'm not saying that at all but I think a lot of wild players and video gamers in 02:14:40.300 --> 02:14:45.180 general who have a very strange like relationship psychologically with the 02:14:45.180 --> 02:14:48.140 game developers of the game they really like I think there are people who don't 02:14:48.140 --> 02:14:52.060 think that and maybe have never had experiences with them personally to have 02:14:52.060 --> 02:14:54.580 that but I can tell you from someone who has that that guy's definitely 02:14:54.580 --> 02:14:57.580 knows what he's doing. Otherwise probably wouldn't care to. I know every single 02:14:57.580 --> 02:14:59.500 patch we've received add-on updates including this one there was a bunch 02:14:59.500 --> 02:15:04.460 like container updates that happen with this patch as well, is the goal with add-on changes still kind 02:15:04.460 --> 02:15:08.380 of this at some point we want it to not be competitive advantage, has the goal kind of shifted 02:15:08.380 --> 02:15:13.260 since then? How? I mean this was like mid-tier but like... 02:15:22.620 --> 02:15:28.700 I don't know. The add-on thing is still a big problem. The goal is stayed the same, no 02:15:28.700 --> 02:15:29.860 No competitive advantage. 02:15:29.860 --> 02:15:33.460 And in fact, let's continue to make sure that we're 02:15:33.460 --> 02:15:37.860 leveling up our system UI and providing more functionality 02:15:37.860 --> 02:15:40.420 either in the base UI or for add-on authors 02:15:40.420 --> 02:15:42.420 to make sure that they're able to do things that are 02:15:42.420 --> 02:15:43.260 that players think. 02:15:43.260 --> 02:15:46.460 Oh, I want to listen to the Skype and Roger Echo interview. 02:15:46.460 --> 02:15:47.940 Even though it might be a hard listen, 02:15:47.940 --> 02:15:50.820 because like I just imagine, like here's what, 02:15:50.820 --> 02:15:52.340 it's hard for me to listen to people like that 02:15:52.340 --> 02:15:55.780 because I know how I would feel in that position 02:15:55.780 --> 02:15:56.740 and I would be devastated. 02:15:56.740 --> 02:16:03.660 And listening to someone talk who is devastated is just really sad because you've been in 02:16:03.660 --> 02:16:04.660 that position. 02:16:04.660 --> 02:16:05.660 You know what it feels like. 02:16:05.660 --> 02:16:06.660 Yeah. 02:16:06.660 --> 02:16:09.740 That's something that is going to engender that sort of psychological damage that you 02:16:09.740 --> 02:16:10.740 were talking about. 02:16:10.740 --> 02:16:13.660 If I feel like I need to have this add-on in order to be able to invite it to groups 02:16:13.660 --> 02:16:14.660 or whatnot. 02:16:14.660 --> 02:16:21.140 And I think there's a fine line there between, like, I mean, I think, especially in, how 02:16:21.140 --> 02:16:24.420 many of the race world first players use standard UI? 02:16:24.420 --> 02:16:30.980 Okay, I'll ask you to be a little bit more clear. Do you mean like zero add-ons full Natty Blizz default? 02:16:36.660 --> 02:16:38.660 I don't think anyone... 02:16:39.040 --> 02:16:43.100 Now if you start to loosen that a little more like okay, they have some add-ons, 02:16:43.100 --> 02:16:49.100 but they're like more commonly used add-ons like bigwigs and DBM and they use Blizzard Base UI. 02:16:49.100 --> 02:16:55.500 It's not like L is mere UI. I think yips and trill both do. Let me find our bot review tool 02:16:59.260 --> 02:17:01.740 Then we can actually go through and look at some of their POVs 02:17:07.820 --> 02:17:09.820 Where's the best way to find this 02:17:09.820 --> 02:17:22.820 Find it, okay, recent fights, pool of tech kill. 02:17:22.820 --> 02:17:25.820 All right, so I have a decent amount of perspectives here. 02:17:25.820 --> 02:17:33.820 So Anarchy, AUG player very clearly has like a UI setup that's very specific to AUG actually, 02:17:33.820 --> 02:17:37.420 also just like your kind of regular streamer UI. 02:17:37.420 --> 02:17:41.180 Asshine, not default. 02:17:41.180 --> 02:17:42.380 Boomi, not default. 02:17:42.380 --> 02:17:44.780 Driny, not default. 02:17:44.780 --> 02:17:49.260 Goop, not default. 02:17:49.260 --> 02:17:52.140 Hopeful, not default. 02:17:52.140 --> 02:17:54.500 Exile, same. 02:17:54.500 --> 02:17:56.860 Very, you can tell a lot of similarities, right? 02:17:56.860 --> 02:17:58.220 Same with Fired Up. 02:17:58.220 --> 02:18:01.060 Ampec wasn't online at the time, but he's not default. 02:18:01.060 --> 02:18:04.480 KSP, K, wait, hold on, KSP looks pretty, 02:18:04.480 --> 02:18:06.780 this looks pretty natty, right? 02:18:06.780 --> 02:18:08.180 So this is why it's not full natty, 02:18:08.180 --> 02:18:12.220 like clearly they have like big wigs 02:18:12.220 --> 02:18:14.260 or whatever this is right here, right? 02:18:17.340 --> 02:18:20.280 But like this, this is default, 02:18:20.280 --> 02:18:22.540 this is an add-on right here as well. 02:18:25.140 --> 02:18:29.220 This, like these like boss frames are default 02:18:29.220 --> 02:18:32.780 because you can't even see how much was left on that. 02:18:35.380 --> 02:18:37.500 Name plates aren't nady. 02:18:37.500 --> 02:18:39.060 Yeah, I would say like, 02:18:39.060 --> 02:18:41.340 there's one thing that I think everyone will have 02:18:41.340 --> 02:18:43.940 is I really doubt people use default name plates, 02:18:43.940 --> 02:18:45.380 but maybe Trill does. 02:18:46.260 --> 02:18:47.100 But this has like a lot, 02:18:47.100 --> 02:18:48.140 but like when you're saying like, 02:18:48.140 --> 02:18:50.980 does anyone in Liquid use a like default UI, 02:18:50.980 --> 02:18:53.420 I think this is realistically as close as you're gonna get, 02:18:53.420 --> 02:18:54.460 but I don't know if this means 02:18:54.460 --> 02:18:56.780 the answer to your question is yes. 02:18:56.780 --> 02:18:59.140 Like does anyone in Liquid play with zero add-ons no, 02:18:59.140 --> 02:19:09.140 That would be not ideal slash you wouldn't be allowed to play in the guild because we have a lot of stuff to help you that are add-ons we make and if you didn't have them, you would play worse and that would not be allowed. 02:19:12.140 --> 02:19:20.140 So lip is like pretty not default, Malarkis not default, Nick no, Sang maybe? 02:19:21.140 --> 02:19:24.140 I think Sang would be more default than most. 02:19:24.140 --> 02:19:27.840 I don't think this is default Blizzard cooldown manager, but it might be a skin 02:19:30.740 --> 02:19:37.580 He obviously has like different damage frames he has obviously like these are a custom made add-on from us 02:19:38.860 --> 02:19:46.100 These are like Blizzard default frames, and then I don't know what he uses for for that. But yeah, he was doing some stuff here 02:19:47.540 --> 02:19:52.580 Which by the way you guys want to see what saying is doing saying is not in on the boss 02:19:54.140 --> 02:20:09.140 Saying, even up until the moment we were killing it, he was on the bench for this fight, he was turning himself into an analyst in story mode of this boss, trying to find out as much information as possible on how these mechanics work. 02:20:09.140 --> 02:20:22.140 And if you guys, just to give you, maybe you don't know this, but the amount of being an absolute fucking beast you have to be spending your time doing this when like, the race is about to end is an extremely high amount, the extremely huge beast. 02:20:24.140 --> 02:20:35.140 Um, Scott, uh, definitely there. Okay. So the two that I know, so Trill, I think is like pretty natty. 02:20:35.140 --> 02:20:46.140 All right. I'll let it buffer here for a second. Or maybe go to a different part of the fight where it's loaded. Oh my God. 02:20:46.140 --> 02:20:48.640 Oh my god. 02:20:48.640 --> 02:20:49.380 Oh my god. 02:20:49.380 --> 02:20:51.020 All right. 02:20:51.020 --> 02:20:53.320 For some reason it's just like negative bit rate. 02:20:53.320 --> 02:20:55.220 Maybe if I pause it and let it load for a second, 02:20:55.220 --> 02:20:55.820 it'll be better. 02:20:59.340 --> 02:21:02.380 But I mean, yeah, he has full default here. 02:21:02.380 --> 02:21:05.740 His stuff at the bottom is full default. 02:21:05.740 --> 02:21:07.660 His damage meters are full default. 02:21:07.660 --> 02:21:09.460 So far, this is the most full default player 02:21:09.460 --> 02:21:10.420 until we get to Yip's. 02:21:13.140 --> 02:21:15.380 His raid frames are full default. 02:21:15.380 --> 02:21:16.900 But I mean, he uses add-ons, though. 02:21:16.900 --> 02:21:19.660 So if you ask if anyone in Liquid is like, look, 02:21:19.660 --> 02:21:22.860 this is like a reminder we have sent him via our add-ons. 02:21:22.860 --> 02:21:25.700 For example, would you consider this full default? 02:21:25.700 --> 02:21:27.140 It's not, though, right? 02:21:28.580 --> 02:21:29.820 But I think there's levels to it. 02:21:29.820 --> 02:21:31.100 I think there's some expectation 02:21:31.100 --> 02:21:34.100 that you will use something like BigWigs or DBM, 02:21:35.100 --> 02:21:37.600 but it could still be mostly full default. 02:21:39.660 --> 02:21:41.020 He can't use add-ons in turnies, 02:21:41.020 --> 02:21:42.500 so that's the play without it to get good. 02:21:42.500 --> 02:21:44.420 That has not been true for 10 years. 02:21:45.380 --> 02:21:56.220 By the way, I think this is how the bug works, by the way, because when you spread these debuffs, 02:21:56.220 --> 02:21:59.260 you can be in one but not the other, but if you've already soaked one and you've entered 02:21:59.260 --> 02:22:02.380 another one, you will get that debuff. 02:22:02.380 --> 02:22:04.820 But some circles go away faster than others. 02:22:04.820 --> 02:22:08.820 In fact, the spread only happens when the last of these three soaks is done soaking. 02:22:08.820 --> 02:22:13.460 If you notice how we move here, sometimes it's possible with the way you move that 02:22:13.460 --> 02:22:18.900 Like maybe you'd miss a tick of specifically one of them and the people who were having the bug happen to them 02:22:18.900 --> 02:22:22.380 I think were the people that actually had the red circles if I remember correctly and 02:22:23.820 --> 02:22:30.700 It's something like if one of them was healed off earlier if like a tank stayed here and missed a tick of this circle 02:22:31.180 --> 02:22:35.240 But like hit these two and now this one was a second later. It's possible. They like 02:22:36.500 --> 02:22:40.580 Basically the buff because these were not meant to be stacked like the buff 02:22:40.580 --> 02:22:48.340 Snapshot it was going to give them a spread but then it regained another debuff which made them not get a spread and still or still get a 02:22:48.340 --> 02:22:50.500 Spread but then still keep that this is why I didn't want to go in this earlier 02:22:50.500 --> 02:22:53.380 Because this is really confusing if you don't really know how this mechanic works, but like 02:22:54.020 --> 02:22:57.940 It's absolutely caused by stacking them and the people who have it aren't supposed to get it 02:22:57.940 --> 02:23:04.820 But I think it's them being soaked in a desynced way in some way causes the last tick to like refresh and not consume 02:23:04.820 --> 02:23:13.220 them. Anyways, onto Yip's PV. Let's do the rest of them. I'm pretty sure Wall Life is 02:23:13.220 --> 02:23:20.580 not like default. Wolf Disco is not default. Zevi is not default. Zevi is playing on like 02:23:20.580 --> 02:23:26.460 a fucking IMAX screen. Him and Smacked both play ultrawide. And I think someone else 02:23:26.460 --> 02:23:32.860 team maybe Anarchy. And then Yip's, this is Yip's. Now Yip's has the most interesting 02:23:32.860 --> 02:23:34.900 UI in the guild in my opinion for a few reasons. 02:23:34.900 --> 02:23:39.140 I think, actually, I mean, this stuff in the middle might be like reskin default, but his 02:23:39.140 --> 02:23:41.660 boss frames are default. 02:23:41.660 --> 02:23:46.820 His stuff up here is default, although he, this is definitely an interesting UI. 02:23:46.820 --> 02:23:48.620 It like has these two things up here. 02:23:48.620 --> 02:23:53.020 They're not even like, they're not even level with each other. 02:23:53.020 --> 02:23:55.060 And then also he has his health down here anyway. 02:23:55.060 --> 02:23:58.180 This is a big, like I don't really care about you, my UI that much. 02:23:58.180 --> 02:24:02.260 Also, Yip's Easter egg, he plays wow in windowed mode. 02:24:02.260 --> 02:24:07.500 So he'll play on like a 27 inch monitor, but like he windows wow so it's smaller to help 02:24:07.500 --> 02:24:18.020 his peripheral vision. 02:24:18.020 --> 02:24:24.220 So that's why like the elements look a little bigger or closer to the middle. 02:24:24.220 --> 02:24:25.220 That's a G kick. 02:24:25.220 --> 02:24:27.260 Yipz is like the best player of all time. 02:24:27.260 --> 02:24:34.260 Yep, this is so good. 02:24:34.260 --> 02:24:39.260 Okay, so yeah, that's the answer to that question about the default Matty thing. 02:24:39.260 --> 02:24:41.260 Let's go to the next question here. 02:24:41.260 --> 02:24:42.260 Add-on updates. 02:24:42.260 --> 02:24:45.260 Let's hear about this. 02:24:45.260 --> 02:24:47.260 Yeah. 02:24:47.260 --> 02:24:52.260 I think there was a lot of misinformation related towards the add-on updates. 02:24:52.260 --> 02:24:56.260 How does Blizzard's company wade through the process of implementing something that, like, 02:24:56.260 --> 02:24:59.860 Everybody kind of knows it's going to be unpopular. 02:24:59.860 --> 02:25:01.260 A lot of people describe it as like the add-on apocalypse, 02:25:01.260 --> 02:25:02.700 or like the removal of add-ons. 02:25:02.700 --> 02:25:04.140 But I think it was more just like changing 02:25:04.140 --> 02:25:08.580 add-on functionality, whereas there's 02:25:08.580 --> 02:25:09.660 something that's so unpopular that it's 02:25:09.660 --> 02:25:10.940 potential to make the game. 02:25:10.940 --> 02:25:14.180 Twitch or THG said the state of add-ons currently. 02:25:14.180 --> 02:25:14.780 Let's watch this. 02:25:14.780 --> 02:25:17.820 Oh no, please don't be a Twitch clip that makes my Firefox 02:25:17.820 --> 02:25:20.580 have to load for a minute. 02:25:20.580 --> 02:25:21.500 OK, this goes out. 02:25:21.500 --> 02:25:25.420 Ascat, square, le, triangle, where we just were. 02:25:25.420 --> 02:25:28.580 Wait, what, look at the map, bro. 02:25:29.820 --> 02:25:31.340 Yeah, I mean, this is the same tech 02:25:31.340 --> 02:25:33.100 that makes the arrows work on CISRAC. 02:25:33.100 --> 02:25:35.580 It's the same tech that makes the arrows line up 02:25:35.580 --> 02:25:36.780 on Vashnik. 02:25:38.860 --> 02:25:40.420 So like, if you were someone who had a bomb 02:25:40.420 --> 02:25:42.180 and you had to go to X, you would just look at the map 02:25:42.180 --> 02:25:43.300 and know you just have to go that way 02:25:43.300 --> 02:25:44.860 without actually having to see it. 02:25:47.260 --> 02:25:48.460 Zach, get in. 02:25:48.460 --> 02:25:50.140 Yeah, I mean, that's fucking insane. 02:25:50.140 --> 02:25:51.740 Better if it's implemented correctly. 02:25:51.740 --> 02:25:53.380 How do you guys wade through that 02:25:53.380 --> 02:25:55.200 with such overt negative feedback? 02:25:56.740 --> 02:25:58.260 Very delicately and carefully. 02:25:58.260 --> 02:26:01.460 I mean, I think it's always one of the most challenging things 02:26:01.460 --> 02:26:02.300 for us to do. 02:26:02.300 --> 02:26:04.020 And we know we don't always get it, right? 02:26:04.020 --> 02:26:06.220 Like most of what we do, 02:26:06.220 --> 02:26:07.220 we sit when we sit down 02:26:07.220 --> 02:26:09.340 and we're gonna devote a lot of development resources 02:26:09.340 --> 02:26:11.060 to a new feature, to a new system, 02:26:11.060 --> 02:26:13.540 to making a new raid, to making a new class. 02:26:13.540 --> 02:26:15.700 Like we know it's almost pure upside. 02:26:15.700 --> 02:26:16.660 We know we're gonna do this thing 02:26:16.660 --> 02:26:18.300 people are excited about. 02:26:18.300 --> 02:26:23.100 But part of the burden and the duty 02:26:23.100 --> 02:26:27.160 of maintaining a game for two decades and counting 02:26:27.160 --> 02:26:30.560 is that at times we do have to kind of curate that ecosystem 02:26:30.560 --> 02:26:33.720 and whether it's prune or remove some things 02:26:33.720 --> 02:26:36.200 or look at trends that are being driven 02:26:36.200 --> 02:26:39.400 by community behavior that we can kind of, 02:26:39.400 --> 02:26:41.360 be sent where we can see directly 02:26:41.360 --> 02:26:43.960 are gonna keep leading in a potentially negative direction 02:26:43.960 --> 02:26:45.840 if we don't do something about them. 02:26:45.840 --> 02:26:48.120 And we never relish making changes 02:26:48.120 --> 02:26:51.240 that we know are gonna be unpopular with some people. 02:26:51.240 --> 02:26:53.720 part of how we handled the add-on initiative 02:26:53.720 --> 02:26:57.520 out on disarmament for midnight was to try to take people's 02:26:57.520 --> 02:26:58.760 temperature early on. 02:26:58.760 --> 02:27:01.560 I mean, like when I sat down, I think with like Max and 02:27:01.560 --> 02:27:05.240 Dratinos like a year before that was announced on this. 02:27:05.240 --> 02:27:06.240 Not even a year. 02:27:06.240 --> 02:27:08.080 Part of the goal was like, just go soft on me. 02:27:08.080 --> 02:27:11.640 Let me float this and let me see what reactions are. 02:27:12.760 --> 02:27:17.080 Frankly, if the entire community had said, 02:27:17.080 --> 02:27:20.220 that's the worst idea we've ever heard, hell no. 02:27:20.220 --> 02:27:21.900 If they do that, I'm quitting. 02:27:21.900 --> 02:27:26.180 The funny part is, is I think if you only existed 02:27:26.180 --> 02:27:28.940 in like the Twitter sphere that maybe you exist in 02:27:28.940 --> 02:27:30.600 and the content creators you follow, 02:27:30.600 --> 02:27:34.500 that was the reaction, right? 02:27:34.500 --> 02:27:37.660 But that wasn't that, I think a lot of times 02:27:37.660 --> 02:27:40.500 when you're in like, not like an echo chamber, 02:27:40.500 --> 02:27:43.380 but you like, you basically see a bunch of wow stuff, 02:27:43.380 --> 02:27:45.620 but it's all from a very specific community. 02:27:45.620 --> 02:27:47.700 You start to think that's what everyone's saying, 02:27:47.700 --> 02:27:49.540 but then you realize that the high-end wow community 02:27:49.540 --> 02:27:53.540 is such an insanely small part of the WoW community, 02:27:53.540 --> 02:27:55.560 and they get a much bigger picture. 02:27:55.560 --> 02:27:59.020 On mass, we probably would have reconsidered 02:27:59.020 --> 02:28:00.940 we'd probably be in a different place today. 02:28:00.940 --> 02:28:03.940 But there was a pretty healthy divided conversation 02:28:03.940 --> 02:28:05.460 that were of course, some people were freed up. 02:28:05.460 --> 02:28:06.780 Are they practicing in the other end? 02:28:06.780 --> 02:28:09.340 There were tons and tons of people across, 02:28:09.340 --> 02:28:13.380 you know, like content creators, Reddit, social media, 02:28:13.380 --> 02:28:15.700 our forums everywhere who were like, 02:28:15.700 --> 02:28:17.660 if they can pull this off, it would be awesome. 02:28:17.660 --> 02:28:22.300 be great to feel like I don't need to download all these add-ons and I, you know, obviously every 02:28:22.300 --> 02:28:28.460 raid leader who spends the first half of their first prognite like wiping to weak aura configuration 02:28:28.460 --> 02:28:35.260 issues wants that to die in a fire and so the worst boss that had weak aura configuration 02:28:35.980 --> 02:28:45.500 issues it's like fractalus and what brood twister oh brood twister bro 02:28:47.660 --> 02:28:51.660 At least Fractalus was easy. 02:28:56.660 --> 02:28:58.660 Echo of Neltharion. 02:28:58.660 --> 02:29:00.660 Ooh, okay, okay. 02:29:02.660 --> 02:29:04.660 Brood Twister, Echo of Neltharion. 02:29:04.660 --> 02:29:07.660 Dude, I'm surprised there aren't enough people saying Fractalus. 02:29:07.660 --> 02:29:11.660 Like Fractalus, I feel like was so, maybe that's just an us thing 02:29:11.660 --> 02:29:13.660 because we were like configuring it to work on the fly 02:29:13.660 --> 02:29:15.660 and maybe the average Fractalus thing worked for everybody, 02:29:15.660 --> 02:29:21.300 for everybody, but that was the thing for us that wiped us all the time. 02:29:21.300 --> 02:29:22.300 Frack was solved. 02:29:22.300 --> 02:29:27.100 Yeah, but you could have it solved, but you could have two people on two different versions 02:29:27.100 --> 02:29:28.780 of it, and it would just not work. 02:29:28.780 --> 02:29:31.340 It was very frustrating, actually. 02:29:31.340 --> 02:29:36.900 Maybe it's just like when you're creating the thing, you go through that process, 02:29:36.900 --> 02:29:39.100 but once it's created, it's not as big of a deal. 02:29:39.100 --> 02:29:41.100 I mean, that totally makes sense. 02:29:46.780 --> 02:29:49.940 I can't believe I'm looking at our MDI team. 02:29:49.940 --> 02:29:52.420 Our MDI team, I think, went to a different facility. 02:29:52.420 --> 02:29:55.100 I think, basically, Blizzard, I think, 02:29:55.100 --> 02:29:59.180 rented out facilities in the area for the teams 02:29:59.180 --> 02:30:00.660 to practice before BlizzCon. 02:30:00.660 --> 02:30:01.220 I believe. 02:30:01.220 --> 02:30:04.900 I don't know if it was a, I think it was a Blizzard thing. 02:30:04.900 --> 02:30:07.180 And then that just wasn't the TL facility. 02:30:07.180 --> 02:30:08.460 So they were at the TL facility, 02:30:08.460 --> 02:30:10.600 and they went to another facility like yesterday 02:30:10.600 --> 02:30:11.560 to start practice. 02:30:17.640 --> 02:30:19.280 Well, at that time, he had a version check, 02:30:19.280 --> 02:30:21.720 so you could see before, bro, that didn't matter. 02:30:26.680 --> 02:30:29.000 Why didn't Yard go to the race if he's going to the MDI? 02:30:29.000 --> 02:30:31.440 I don't know. 02:30:31.440 --> 02:30:34.520 Maybe he likes doing the race at home. 02:30:34.520 --> 02:30:35.440 Is that NA only? 02:30:35.440 --> 02:30:35.800 I don't know. 02:30:35.800 --> 02:30:37.720 I mean, maybe it's something Team Liquid figured out, 02:30:37.720 --> 02:30:50.720 If I could tell, I think there's another, I think there's like, so what's typical of all the facilities in LA is that you basically rent out the space to other teams who are in town to practice for something or to do a boot camp. 02:30:50.720 --> 02:31:04.720 So like, if you just show up to like the Shopify facility, there will be like, I'm just making this up like Cloud 9's Valorant team is there practicing or like, just this happens all the time. 02:31:04.720 --> 02:31:09.520 I don't really understand the business behind it other than like the facilities are making money by renting out the space but like 02:31:09.960 --> 02:31:14.600 Basically different eSports orgs bootcamp at other teams facilities like all the fucking time 02:31:16.800 --> 02:31:21.360 And I think there's one here today, I'm pretty sure I've watched the team come in and get set up 02:31:22.200 --> 02:31:28.360 To bootcamp here that I don't believe is a liquid team that was like emboldening enough and encouraging enough for us to say 02:31:28.360 --> 02:31:33.020 Okay, let's let's seriously go down this path. I think we tried to communicate it, you know 02:31:33.020 --> 02:31:34.860 Who's on the MDI team? 02:31:34.860 --> 02:31:39.300 Zasevi, Ashaan, Boom, Wolf Disco, and Yipz. 02:31:39.300 --> 02:31:41.100 We're running as much as we could. 02:31:41.100 --> 02:31:42.660 But yeah, in retrospect, we definitely 02:31:42.660 --> 02:31:44.380 could have done a better job. 02:31:44.380 --> 02:31:46.980 I think there was a lot of perception 02:31:46.980 --> 02:31:49.820 that all add-ons are getting nuked. 02:31:49.820 --> 02:31:53.740 And I remember everyone frames a little bit and wins. 02:31:53.740 --> 02:31:56.180 But I would read forum posts of, hey, 02:31:56.180 --> 02:31:57.340 I'm trying to get ready for midnight. 02:31:57.340 --> 02:31:58.900 I deleted all my add-ons. 02:31:58.900 --> 02:31:59.980 And I'm trying to play this way. 02:31:59.980 --> 02:32:02.980 And it's like, dude, you don't need to do that. 02:32:02.980 --> 02:32:08.900 Okay, but in in the defense of the people saying that though like okay blizzard did into nuke all add-ons 02:32:08.900 --> 02:32:12.340 But they did a lot of the add-ons that still existed could still work 02:32:12.340 --> 02:32:17.980 But they had to be written in a different way and it was kind of RNG if your add-on was already written that way or written under the old 02:32:17.980 --> 02:32:22.760 Rules so it did mean that a lot of the add-ons that still existed were also just still worse 02:32:23.140 --> 02:32:29.160 Than they were also some of it was due to some of them choosing not to exist like for example weak ores could have still 02:32:29.160 --> 02:32:33.900 existed it just wouldn't have been as good and even in their own posts they're 02:32:33.900 --> 02:32:37.820 like yes we could recreate week or as for the mid for midnight but we don't want 02:32:37.820 --> 02:32:42.500 to because it would just be a lot of work to put out something that's just 02:32:42.500 --> 02:32:45.140 infinitely less capable than what the current thing is and that just wouldn't 02:32:45.140 --> 02:32:48.660 be worth our time which is like valid right but it didn't mean it couldn't 02:32:48.660 --> 02:32:52.380 be made but a lot of people just didn't understand that so I do I could 02:32:52.380 --> 02:32:55.380 see Blizzard being tilted about that because because like now I think of 02:32:55.380 --> 02:32:58.940 most of the stuff works that used to work that should still work except for 02:32:58.940 --> 02:33:02.780 stuff they don't want to work except for like the add-ons in RAID like the interrupt stuff and the 02:33:02.780 --> 02:33:10.940 map stuff which is probably the next thing that's going to get nuked but uh yeah I I could definitely 02:33:10.940 --> 02:33:14.540 see them sitting around just being like what are these people talking about? 80% of your add-ons 02:33:14.540 --> 02:33:19.820 are still going to work that's not what we're not what we're changing but you know we worked 02:33:19.820 --> 02:33:24.860 our way through it um there's no silver bullet or magic formula for doing it it's a lot of 02:33:24.860 --> 02:33:29.580 of communication, a lot of listening, and we know that we can always do better there 02:33:29.580 --> 02:33:30.580 and we're going to try to. 02:33:30.580 --> 02:33:34.980 And I think we learned there are pros and cons to the early announcement, right? 02:33:34.980 --> 02:33:40.900 Like that early announcement did give us that big pro of a long time and a lot of time to 02:33:40.900 --> 02:33:42.740 be able to adjust and listen to feedback and whatnot. 02:33:42.740 --> 02:33:47.540 But it also gave people a long time to sit in this moment of like we don't know exactly 02:33:47.540 --> 02:33:49.860 when add-ons will be disarmed. 02:33:49.860 --> 02:33:51.860 We don't know exactly what, right? 02:33:51.860 --> 02:33:55.140 We feel like we don't have all the information yet in terms of what is going to happen and 02:33:55.140 --> 02:34:00.100 that I think may have led to some of the misinformation you're talking about, which came from a place 02:34:00.100 --> 02:34:06.100 of fear or not a completely understanding that the goal was not to take away everything. 02:34:06.100 --> 02:34:11.640 But if someone feels like that's the case and that idea spreads, then these are lessons 02:34:11.640 --> 02:34:16.460 that we'll want to be able to take advantage of when we are doing any future communications, 02:34:16.460 --> 02:34:20.260 making sure that we're clear and keep the communication with us. 02:34:20.260 --> 02:34:21.700 You know, just refocus. 02:34:21.700 --> 02:34:23.700 It'll last forever. 02:34:23.700 --> 02:34:25.040 Yeah, I mean, I think it makes sense. 02:34:25.040 --> 02:34:26.740 Just like at some point, you've got to lie in the game up. 02:34:26.740 --> 02:34:28.140 Nothing lasts forever. 02:34:28.140 --> 02:34:28.940 Yeah. 02:34:28.940 --> 02:34:30.140 OK, talk about the red. 02:34:30.140 --> 02:34:31.780 Talk about something that doesn't last forever. 02:34:31.780 --> 02:34:34.540 So recently, there was a, again, Ian had an interview 02:34:34.540 --> 02:34:36.500 with Cyber where there was something that peaked my interest. 02:34:36.500 --> 02:34:39.260 I remember listening to it and I was like, oh, this is insane. 02:34:39.260 --> 02:34:42.780 I want you to elaborate on it a little bit further. 02:34:42.780 --> 02:34:44.580 So to summarize, you discussed needing to know when 02:34:44.580 --> 02:34:46.100 some things need to shake up. 02:34:46.100 --> 02:34:49.500 And change for change is sometimes necessary. 02:34:49.500 --> 02:34:51.500 It's been 12 years since the last shakeup with raids 02:34:51.500 --> 02:34:53.780 where Warlords of Draenor and Fixed Mythic rating 02:34:53.780 --> 02:34:54.620 ended up getting added, 02:34:54.620 --> 02:34:56.380 or at least it got added at the end of Siege, 02:34:56.380 --> 02:34:58.140 but at the same time. 02:34:58.140 --> 02:34:59.180 Recently there've been some experiments 02:34:59.180 --> 02:35:00.740 with things like the Tybound Grotto and Rotmire, 02:35:00.740 --> 02:35:03.940 and I've seen pretty consistently a bunch of questions 02:35:03.940 --> 02:35:05.620 as to what's going to happen with the future rating. 02:35:05.620 --> 02:35:09.580 I see 10-man Fixed Mythic returning, 02:35:09.580 --> 02:35:11.500 being something that's constantly floated 02:35:11.500 --> 02:35:13.500 as an idea, as a huge discussion point, 02:35:13.500 --> 02:35:15.540 and that group size being more achievable 02:35:15.540 --> 02:35:17.020 for people than 20 players. 02:35:17.020 --> 02:35:21.460 Are there any large changes that are planned for rating specifically at this point in time? 02:35:21.460 --> 02:35:25.860 I would start by saying hopefully the first couple seasons of midnight have 02:35:25.860 --> 02:35:30.100 this abuse of any notion that we are unwilling to change the rating formula 02:35:30.100 --> 02:35:34.340 that you know with the three different rates separating into you know 02:35:34.340 --> 02:35:37.900 three different locations with the midnight's launch and then addition 02:35:37.900 --> 02:35:41.960 of layers as well as mythic flex with Rottmeier and then numerous wave 02:35:41.960 --> 02:35:45.700 caller are you know or the rate team is for sure looking at ways we 02:35:45.700 --> 02:35:47.500 we can iterate, we can provide novelty, 02:35:47.500 --> 02:35:50.740 we can respond to what players are interested in. 02:35:50.740 --> 02:35:53.300 And I think, in particular, with MythicFlex 02:35:53.300 --> 02:35:55.980 is a space where we've heard a lot of positive feedback of, 02:35:55.980 --> 02:36:00.740 hey, I am in an AOTC guild, we regularly hit Herok, 02:36:00.740 --> 02:36:02.860 but then we just don't have that loadout 02:36:02.860 --> 02:36:05.940 to field a 20-person group for MythicWeathers 02:36:05.940 --> 02:36:08.260 to make too small or whatever reason. 02:36:08.260 --> 02:36:10.540 MythicFlex is a way for them to keep progressing, 02:36:10.540 --> 02:36:11.500 and it feels great. 02:36:11.500 --> 02:36:14.980 So we are looking for ways we can continue 02:36:14.980 --> 02:36:16.680 shake up the formula in the future. 02:36:17.480 --> 02:36:18.480 Yeah, I have to. 02:36:18.640 --> 02:36:21.200 Yeah, they definitely shook up the formula by adding a world 02:36:21.200 --> 02:36:24.400 boss that's supposed to be one out of six myth track loot and a 02:36:24.400 --> 02:36:26.520 bridge between heroic and mythic rating. 02:36:27.200 --> 02:36:31.960 And I believe it dot the only bosses that died after the mythic 02:36:31.960 --> 02:36:36.880 world boss were coiled alter and will attack on that. 02:36:37.200 --> 02:36:42.080 Call attention to two problems that I think we see with the 02:36:42.080 --> 02:36:44.920 ecosystem currently and where future efforts are like, you 02:36:44.920 --> 02:36:51.000 to focus. One is exactly the one that Paul mentioned. It's, you know, that has them for 02:36:51.000 --> 02:36:58.640 groups that finish heroic, that get AOTC, but have more in them, but don't have 20 people. 02:36:58.640 --> 02:37:05.080 And I think one off one boss raise, layers, flex mythic are really interesting potential 02:37:05.080 --> 02:37:11.120 solutions to that. I think that, I think we continue to feel that for the very, very, 02:37:11.120 --> 02:37:15.040 very high end like we're talking final bosses and a tier on mythic fixed size 02:37:15.040 --> 02:37:18.880 remains pretty important because I think you'd see a lot of degenerate strats 02:37:18.880 --> 02:37:22.880 that don't have great social consequences if group size is flexing up and 02:37:22.880 --> 02:37:29.240 down for those bosses but yeah I think we'd love to let people who are good 02:37:29.240 --> 02:37:33.760 enough to kill Faroq and bosses dip their toes into mythic and start down 02:37:33.760 --> 02:37:38.280 that path and then if they want to grow to 20 to try to finish the 02:37:38.280 --> 02:37:41.080 tier, all the more power to them. 02:37:41.080 --> 02:37:43.640 On the other end, I think looking at normal 02:37:43.640 --> 02:37:47.440 mode rating, actually, normal rating is a little bit 02:37:47.440 --> 02:37:51.520 you know, stranded right now in terms of lacking 02:37:51.520 --> 02:37:55.680 a clear purpose or correlation between the barriers 02:37:55.680 --> 02:37:58.360 to entry of needing to manually form a group 02:37:58.360 --> 02:38:00.560 and the rewards that it gives. 02:38:00.560 --> 02:38:02.640 That made a ton of sense back in Warlords 02:38:02.640 --> 02:38:04.680 where it was like the only way to get that kind 02:38:04.680 --> 02:38:07.080 of loot for the most part and even the easiest 02:38:07.080 --> 02:38:14.600 mode of rating was still plenty good, but needing to manually form a group, travel to the instance, 02:38:14.600 --> 02:38:20.040 all of that, when you can get the same gear from soloing Delves, isn't quite as clear cut. 02:38:20.040 --> 02:38:25.480 So one of the things that we're looking at is whether there's room for some more flexibility 02:38:25.480 --> 02:38:31.640 there to have a smoother on-ramp inter-rating. LFR is kind of its own thing, but I think 02:38:31.640 --> 02:38:35.640 there's a bit more that we could do to make normal feel more accessible. So I think 02:38:35.640 --> 02:38:44.640 I think the growth works pretty well solid right now, but I think we're looking at both the on-ramp inter-rating as a whole, and then progression opportunities for people that are done with growth. 02:38:44.640 --> 02:38:55.640 Yeah, I will say it just completely anecdotically. We zoned in on Mythic and Wristled Wave call around 25 player the other day, and it was like, wait a second, we can go in there with everybody, hold on. 02:38:55.640 --> 02:39:00.960 Yep. All right, talk about PTR testing. I want to talk about PTR testing a little bit. 02:39:00.960 --> 02:39:07.040 So, discovery is, for a lot of people, actually a pretty big enjoyment vector. And for some 02:39:07.040 --> 02:39:08.040 people, nah. 02:39:08.040 --> 02:39:12.960 Talk about the bugs. Bugs were as like, sparked. There was like, a hunter foreset that gave 02:39:12.960 --> 02:39:18.080 them catalyst charges. There was like, how do you can coiled all this stuff? Like, 02:39:18.080 --> 02:39:19.080 what happened? 02:39:19.080 --> 02:39:22.840 I can speak to some specific bugs with any different bug that usually the story 02:39:22.840 --> 02:39:23.840 is about. 02:39:23.840 --> 02:39:27.560 with the what happened actually. That's kind of, that's definitely on the nose for 02:39:27.560 --> 02:39:32.480 both of you. It'd be different. You bring up the hunter two-piece set for folks who 02:39:32.480 --> 02:39:36.480 weren't familiar. The survival hunter two-piece set unlocked the catalyst 02:39:36.480 --> 02:39:39.360 unbound achievement as opposed to the four-piece set. What that is was just a 02:39:39.360 --> 02:39:44.400 flip piece of data. If you think about it behind the scenes there are, for 02:39:44.400 --> 02:39:47.720 every spec, there are multiple set bonuses and in this 02:39:47.720 --> 02:39:51.360 particular case the four-piece was flipped with the two-piece. And the 02:39:51.360 --> 02:39:55.480 The effect of that was people who got their two pieces started getting their catalyst 02:39:55.480 --> 02:39:57.720 unbounded treatment a little earlier. 02:39:57.720 --> 02:39:59.040 We were able to fix this one. 02:39:59.040 --> 02:40:02.680 This one was obviously, it's already since been hot fixed and was hot fixed just a couple 02:40:02.680 --> 02:40:08.480 hours after it sort of showed up on forums and reddit posts and whatnot. 02:40:08.480 --> 02:40:12.360 So a very few number of survival, a very small percentage of overall survival hunters 02:40:12.360 --> 02:40:14.400 were affected, let alone percentage of players in the game. 02:40:14.400 --> 02:40:18.000 But that was a case where there was a flip bit of data. 02:40:18.000 --> 02:40:20.040 Another example you brought up was Sparks. 02:40:20.040 --> 02:40:23.780 And that was also actually the same thing, like one sort of misplaced treasure cable 02:40:23.780 --> 02:40:28.720 caused folks to get into a state where they either weren't able to get an additional spark 02:40:28.720 --> 02:40:30.480 or they had a spark too many. 02:40:30.480 --> 02:40:33.840 And that one has been a little longer to clean up. 02:40:33.840 --> 02:40:39.400 We're still, you know, have folks both on design and engineering sort of data analysis 02:40:39.400 --> 02:40:42.740 folks who are going to make sure that we get to a place where, like, everything's 02:40:42.740 --> 02:40:44.240 even fair. 02:40:44.240 --> 02:40:47.320 We've already made the change to increase the cap to four for that first week so 02:40:47.320 --> 02:40:50.000 that we have the bank error and the player's favor. 02:40:50.000 --> 02:40:53.100 where we're able to get a little bit more power during that first week where the 02:40:53.100 --> 02:40:56.160 expectation was they wouldn't have four sparks during that first week and then 02:40:56.160 --> 02:41:00.900 for the few people who are still in a space where they're mismatched with their 02:41:00.900 --> 02:41:04.740 currency or their and their items that we're getting all that cleaned up. But 02:41:04.740 --> 02:41:09.300 like looking forward I don't think that's ideal that sparks are built in a 02:41:09.300 --> 02:41:13.580 way which is so fragile that a little flipped bit cause a lot of cleanup. 02:41:13.580 --> 02:41:15.700 So we're looking at sparks in particular. I wonder what kind of an 02:41:15.700 --> 02:41:19.140 impact that had on this raid. Although I do think it should happen all 02:41:19.140 --> 02:41:23.540 the time though. Like, I think your first week of the season, they either should change 02:41:23.540 --> 02:41:28.220 how spark crafting works, or they should make sure you have four sparks on Tuesday because 02:41:28.220 --> 02:41:33.500 it makes no sense that one handed classes just get their weapon a week before two handed 02:41:33.500 --> 02:41:36.740 classes. That just feels like that is something that isn't thought all the way through. 02:41:36.740 --> 02:41:39.180 There's a space that we're wanna. So it's good that happened, I think. 02:41:39.180 --> 02:41:45.820 Not let something like that happen again. And broadly speaking, I completely understand 02:41:45.820 --> 02:41:51.540 a player, bugs are frustrating, right? You're paying a subscription, you're, you know, playing 02:41:51.540 --> 02:41:56.420 a premium AAA game, you want to work. And that's a completely reasonable expectation. 02:41:56.420 --> 02:42:00.820 And so everything I'm about to say is not an excuse. It's just an explanation for how 02:42:00.820 --> 02:42:07.940 these sorts of things happen. It's a fast game with like innumerable amounts of data. 02:42:07.940 --> 02:42:12.420 Every panel, like the thing Paul mentioned, like the, and some of this is, you know, 02:42:12.420 --> 02:42:15.780 internal tools and processes that we would love to improve, 02:42:15.780 --> 02:42:17.900 but it's how the game works today. 02:42:17.900 --> 02:42:19.900 That kind of is an unbounded achievement. 02:42:19.900 --> 02:42:21.460 That is a designer manually entering 02:42:21.460 --> 02:42:23.380 what's basically a list of 40 numbers. 02:42:23.380 --> 02:42:26.660 It's 40 spell IDs that correspond to each 02:42:26.660 --> 02:42:30.360 of the 40 different possible four piece bonuses. 02:42:30.360 --> 02:42:32.260 One of those 40 numbers was flicked 02:42:32.260 --> 02:42:35.100 with the two piece bonus instead, as Paul said, 02:42:35.100 --> 02:42:36.940 our QA analysts check it, 02:42:36.940 --> 02:42:38.260 but the test suite is like, 02:42:38.260 --> 02:42:39.380 equip the four piece bonus. 02:42:39.380 --> 02:42:40.500 Do you get the achievement? 02:42:40.500 --> 02:42:43.460 You did, test-passed, not just right. 02:42:43.460 --> 02:42:45.940 So it's like, and a lot of it is needle 02:42:45.940 --> 02:42:49.380 in a haystack type stuff is we catch 02:42:49.380 --> 02:42:53.340 probably 99% of the bugs that are in a given patch. 02:42:53.340 --> 02:42:54.540 There's thousands of them. 02:42:54.540 --> 02:42:57.300 We catch 99% of them, fix them, 02:42:57.300 --> 02:42:58.620 but that still means that dozens 02:42:58.620 --> 02:43:01.300 of often high profile ones creep out. 02:43:01.300 --> 02:43:02.980 We do a root cause analysis. 02:43:02.980 --> 02:43:05.100 We try to understand and the aftermath, 02:43:05.100 --> 02:43:06.300 like how did we miss this? 02:43:06.300 --> 02:43:08.260 Was there, here could be improved our tool 02:43:08.260 --> 02:43:11.060 to make it harder for a designer to make this mistake 02:43:11.060 --> 02:43:15.100 or easier to quickly catch when something was out of whack. 02:43:15.100 --> 02:43:16.900 Could we redesign the system? 02:43:16.900 --> 02:43:19.620 Could we improve some of our underlying tech 02:43:19.620 --> 02:43:23.140 to make it fail in a way that's less destructive 02:43:23.140 --> 02:43:25.060 or obnoxious to players? 02:43:25.060 --> 02:43:26.540 And hopefully we make a difference 02:43:26.540 --> 02:43:27.800 out of mistakes next time. 02:43:27.800 --> 02:43:29.140 But at the end of the day, 02:43:29.140 --> 02:43:31.860 when you have hundreds of people touching hundreds 02:43:31.860 --> 02:43:32.700 of thousands. 02:43:32.700 --> 02:43:33.540 I guess they're not gonna say, 02:43:33.540 --> 02:43:36.180 I was gonna hope they talk about rate of data entries 02:43:36.180 --> 02:43:37.140 for a given update. 02:43:37.140 --> 02:43:39.140 what else they would just say the same thing, right? 02:43:39.140 --> 02:43:39.980 Some times it happens. 02:43:39.980 --> 02:43:42.100 Human error is unavoidable, and I know, you know, 02:43:42.100 --> 02:43:44.620 painfully aware of all of the, oh, it's all AI 02:43:44.620 --> 02:43:46.500 vibe coded memes across the internet. 02:43:46.500 --> 02:43:48.840 No, we're all true at this manually. 02:43:50.060 --> 02:43:52.180 I mean, the WCUA team has never been larger 02:43:52.180 --> 02:43:54.380 than it is at this point, but we've also never been 02:43:54.380 --> 02:43:55.520 doing anywhere close to it. 02:43:55.520 --> 02:43:57.140 Imagine how big of an insult that is. 02:43:57.140 --> 02:44:00.100 Like if it's true that they, you know, 02:44:02.140 --> 02:44:04.860 that they're like full, like just imagine full 02:44:04.860 --> 02:44:07.980 Maddy doing something and then everyone on the internet is just saying it's 02:44:07.980 --> 02:44:14.220 vibrated that actually has to just make you so fucking mad in any job at any 02:44:14.220 --> 02:44:18.140 time in the game's history and so we're always learning or trying to do better 02:44:18.140 --> 02:44:26.620 and like I know specifically I had a comment that about fuck fourth boss in 02:44:26.620 --> 02:44:31.740 near bar palace ration and I had a comment we were talking about the 02:44:31.740 --> 02:44:35.880 bosses before the tier and I said this boss seems like it was made by AI and I 02:44:35.880 --> 02:44:40.580 definitely heard through the grapevine that that made made someone involved 02:44:40.580 --> 02:44:44.100 with designing bosses like really fucking mad and I'm like yeah I kind of get 02:44:44.100 --> 02:44:47.460 that I feel like that would make you really bad. The ability to fix the vast 02:44:47.460 --> 02:44:51.780 majority of issues as quickly as possible and you know many of these are 02:44:51.780 --> 02:44:55.860 resolved within the day that they're spotted but we always want to do 02:44:55.860 --> 02:45:00.940 better. I have a interesting story about a bug I can share I think which 02:45:00.940 --> 02:45:05.940 which I think is fun. Ian will probably tell me, don't keep talking about bugs, but I think this one is fun. 02:45:05.940 --> 02:45:12.940 We had an issue, it showed up maybe three days after launch where players noticed that if they logged out in certain cases, 02:45:12.940 --> 02:45:19.940 their characters kept fighting. I heard this report and said, that can't be true. 02:45:19.940 --> 02:45:25.940 So I tested it out myself, logged into Silver Moon. I'm going to stand in this spot right here, logged out, logged back in. 02:45:25.940 --> 02:45:29.180 I'm still there. Okay, well let me try in combat. I flew over to a couple sleeping 02:45:29.180 --> 02:45:33.220 linkses out in Silver Moon, landed right on top of them, they started attacking me, 02:45:33.220 --> 02:45:36.740 I locked out, and then when I when I woke back up they were both dead and they 02:45:36.740 --> 02:45:39.300 had loot sparkles and so I was like okay, so my character actually did keep 02:45:39.300 --> 02:45:43.580 fighting, something had happened. And so we looked into it and what this is 02:45:43.580 --> 02:45:47.260 is that for 20 years your character actually has always been capable of 02:45:47.260 --> 02:45:50.980 doing this. If this was your character operating as if it was mind-controlled, 02:45:50.980 --> 02:45:53.260 you know, they'll just sort of blindly cast spells that's what was 02:45:53.260 --> 02:45:59.740 happening under the hood, but some tech changes made it such that previously your character 02:45:59.740 --> 02:46:02.660 was always just stunned when you disconnected and all that forward your character was stunned 02:46:02.660 --> 02:46:05.780 and that stun was removed, that stun wasn't triggering and so your character wasn't stunned 02:46:05.780 --> 02:46:12.060 anymore. So that's obviously like out of nowhere, some fix to some other part of the game 02:46:12.060 --> 02:46:16.660 made that happen, but it could have happened for 20 years. I think that's like a prime 02:46:16.660 --> 02:46:21.700 example of when someone says like why this messed up and it's like 20 year old game 02:46:21.700 --> 02:46:25.940 spaghetti code issue. That is like an exact example of that app. 02:46:25.940 --> 02:46:31.260 Now that on Friday afternoon it was fixed by Friday evening. But it is fun to know that 02:46:31.260 --> 02:46:36.340 for all 20 years your character has sort of been like able to come alive like a toy story 02:46:36.340 --> 02:46:39.700 doll. Just that's done was the only thing preventing them from doing so. 02:46:39.700 --> 02:46:43.500 I mean it's crazy that my pugs they just got better whenever they disconnected from 02:46:43.500 --> 02:46:44.980 the game. It's indescribable. 02:46:44.980 --> 02:46:49.220 That's right. Yeah, but Blondie's pressing their switch flight mode. 02:46:49.220 --> 02:46:52.540 All right, cool. 02:46:52.540 --> 02:46:53.620 W. Tettles. 02:46:58.100 --> 02:47:00.860 I wonder how close other people are right now 02:47:00.860 --> 02:47:09.820 in the progression standpoint. 02:47:09.820 --> 02:47:11.260 Let's see. 02:47:11.260 --> 02:47:12.460 So it's still us. 02:47:12.460 --> 02:47:30.460 They're at 294 poles with their best. It says I won. Is that intermission one? The boss is at 47% going into intermission one. 02:47:30.460 --> 02:47:31.660 Is that's how that is? 02:47:31.660 --> 02:47:37.940 And then FATREK, yes, is at P2, 100% P2. 02:47:37.940 --> 02:47:40.100 I think that means like you've phased into P2, 02:47:40.100 --> 02:47:41.740 but not really started it, basically. 02:47:45.740 --> 02:47:48.220 I think the biggest thing that guilds 02:47:48.220 --> 02:47:52.260 can do from poll one on progression on this boss 02:47:52.260 --> 02:47:57.180 is I don't know if there's a publicly available add-on 02:47:57.180 --> 02:47:58.860 for this, but the one that we have 02:47:58.860 --> 02:48:03.940 is basically there are like three or four variables, 02:48:03.940 --> 02:48:07.820 raidplan.io, right? 02:48:07.820 --> 02:48:09.820 This is not exactly how it works in the room, 02:48:09.820 --> 02:48:11.860 but it's the easiest way to describe it to you. 02:48:11.860 --> 02:48:14.180 So we did all of our spreads boss relatives. 02:48:14.180 --> 02:48:18.940 So let's just assume the boss is at the top of the room, 02:48:18.940 --> 02:48:21.900 and then the tail will pick the left side of the room. 02:48:21.900 --> 02:48:25.620 So let's say the tail went over here. 02:48:25.620 --> 02:48:28.260 So if this happens, you're looking at the boss like this, 02:48:28.260 --> 02:48:31.700 and there's some assortment of like ranged like this. 02:48:31.700 --> 02:48:33.140 And then there's like a couple of melee 02:48:33.140 --> 02:48:35.780 and everyone has an egg, right? 02:48:35.780 --> 02:48:41.100 This is one pattern where the waves can start left. 02:48:41.100 --> 02:48:43.180 Is there like a wave icon? 02:48:43.180 --> 02:48:45.740 How do I even do this? 02:48:45.740 --> 02:48:46.700 Not really. 02:48:46.700 --> 02:48:50.100 Let's just say this is the wave icon. 02:48:50.100 --> 02:48:52.460 OK, so like the boss will do, you guys know how it works. 02:48:52.460 --> 02:48:57.700 The boss will either do like a left wave or a right wave. 02:48:57.700 --> 02:49:00.820 Okay, so this is a left-left. 02:49:00.820 --> 02:49:02.360 You heard me call this in progression. 02:49:02.360 --> 02:49:05.100 Left tail and a left wave. 02:49:05.100 --> 02:49:07.360 We actually referred to it as which side was safe. 02:49:07.360 --> 02:49:10.000 This would have been a left-right for us. 02:49:10.000 --> 02:49:12.340 But this is one pattern. 02:49:12.340 --> 02:49:13.540 And then the same wave, 02:49:13.540 --> 02:49:17.000 but the tail on the other side is another pattern. 02:49:17.000 --> 02:49:19.880 And then, again, that's two of the four patterns 02:49:19.880 --> 02:49:22.420 and the other ones are this. 02:49:23.600 --> 02:49:26.040 Where you get a tail on the right 02:49:26.040 --> 02:49:28.640 and then wave on the right, and then same thing, 02:49:28.640 --> 02:49:30.320 tail on the left and wave on the right. 02:49:30.320 --> 02:49:35.320 Four patterns, there's always gonna shoot like five blobs 02:49:35.480 --> 02:49:38.000 out from each one of these things, one, two, three, 02:49:38.000 --> 02:49:39.920 four, five, and then out of the spectral ones 02:49:39.920 --> 02:49:42.120 in the back, there's actually seven, one, two, three, 02:49:42.120 --> 02:49:44.280 four, five, six, seven. 02:49:44.280 --> 02:49:47.520 How the fight works is, and why it feels RNG, 02:49:47.520 --> 02:49:52.520 is the boss deletes two of the blobs every time. 02:49:52.520 --> 02:49:57.240 two of the blobs every time. So if you're dodging it this time and all these 02:49:57.240 --> 02:50:02.080 people move to the left to dodge this wave and the blobs the the waves are 02:50:02.080 --> 02:50:05.120 coming out from this guy on one pole it could delete these two so when these 02:50:05.120 --> 02:50:09.000 start spreading out for all these three people it's super easy and the same 02:50:09.000 --> 02:50:13.880 thing could happen on the pole after where they like deletes it'll just 02:50:13.880 --> 02:50:17.040 delete two of them same thing for the spectral waves sometimes it'll delete 02:50:17.040 --> 02:50:19.600 these two sometimes it'll delete the two in the middle these are not the 02:50:19.600 --> 02:50:24.820 same. So what you end up looking at in a like progression dodge situation and this 02:50:24.820 --> 02:50:28.400 is what like guilds can definitely do to be the best that they can be in this 02:50:28.400 --> 02:50:36.120 phase. Let me show you this first dodge we do. Or the hard dodge we do. So we go 02:50:36.120 --> 02:50:41.760 and pick up our eggs and then we get a left tail and left wave. So left wave 02:50:41.760 --> 02:50:45.580 and it's a left tail. And Mark is in the very back of the room. And what 02:50:45.580 --> 02:50:48.920 you can see here is he has a note, sit left weight gap. 02:50:48.920 --> 02:50:51.040 What that means is he sits left, 02:50:51.040 --> 02:50:53.800 he lets this wave up here go by him 02:50:53.800 --> 02:50:55.920 and he waits and finds the back gap. 02:50:55.920 --> 02:50:58.280 The back gap means this and the weight means 02:50:58.280 --> 02:51:00.560 don't move forward, let these waves right here 02:51:00.560 --> 02:51:02.520 just come and pass you. 02:51:02.520 --> 02:51:04.920 Before he made this note, 02:51:04.920 --> 02:51:06.160 whenever waves start, 02:51:06.160 --> 02:51:08.120 you have no recollection of where the waves 02:51:08.120 --> 02:51:08.960 are gonna be coming from 02:51:08.960 --> 02:51:11.240 and sometimes they're nuclear crazy hard 02:51:11.240 --> 02:51:13.600 and sometimes they're really easy. 02:51:13.600 --> 02:51:23.200 But having this note system makes it so you can remember what you need to do, because it's basically telling you what set it is, and it's like, okay, here's what I did the last time I successfully did this set. 02:51:23.200 --> 02:51:33.880 This increases your consistency by like a million fucking percent. It was really smart. We copied this from, we saw Echo was doing this, and we're like, holy fuck, that's so smart, so we stole it. 02:51:33.880 --> 02:51:40.380 What it requires is it requires one player in the raid, 02:51:40.380 --> 02:51:45.280 we had Yps do it. I don't know if Echo did it outside of raid. I know on Lora they 02:51:45.280 --> 02:51:47.360 strapped someone to a chair and had them 02:51:47.360 --> 02:51:51.600 click the macro for all the memory games. So maybe they did that again here. 02:51:51.600 --> 02:51:57.240 But like what Yps does is he hits left or right tail 02:51:57.240 --> 02:52:02.880 and left or right wave basically. And then that makes the week order work and 02:52:02.880 --> 02:52:10.840 And that makes everyone get a notification for what they should do on that exact situation. 02:52:10.840 --> 02:52:14.040 And that is something that I don't know there's a public add-on for this yet, but like honestly 02:52:14.040 --> 02:52:20.280 doing P1 without this is such a waste of time because you will wipe so much just trying 02:52:20.280 --> 02:52:21.280 to yowl it. 02:52:21.280 --> 02:52:24.740 But when you actually have these notes for yourself, it just makes it just infinitely 02:52:24.740 --> 02:52:26.360 easier to repeat. 02:52:26.360 --> 02:52:29.320 Because if people are all trying to do the same thing, if you try to dodge in 02:52:29.320 --> 02:52:31.320 the same gap as someone else, it can cause a wipe. 02:52:31.320 --> 02:52:34.400 But if you both have notes that puts you away from each other, it's really easy. 02:52:34.400 --> 02:52:39.000 Well, not really easy, but yeah. 02:52:39.000 --> 02:52:42.440 Why does Yip always get assigned the most cogulate stuff in a fight? 02:52:42.440 --> 02:52:49.840 Well, sometimes it just makes sense for a tank to do it, but also it's like he's just 02:52:49.840 --> 02:52:50.840 he's good. 02:52:50.840 --> 02:52:58.320 He's good at doing stuff like that. 02:52:58.320 --> 02:53:00.940 Yeah, I would not attempt to do this boss in P1 02:53:00.940 --> 02:53:02.060 without a system like this. 02:53:02.060 --> 02:53:05.000 You are going to be infinitely less consistent. 02:53:05.000 --> 02:53:08.260 This was a major consistency increase for us. 02:53:08.260 --> 02:53:09.860 Also, the other strat we did was we 02:53:09.860 --> 02:53:12.220 tried to remove the total amount of people in the middle. 02:53:12.220 --> 02:53:15.340 Obviously, you can see in a P of E what I just showed you. 02:53:15.340 --> 02:53:18.580 We're going to be, obviously, markers 02:53:18.580 --> 02:53:19.900 at the back of the room. 02:53:19.900 --> 02:53:21.900 But look at someone who's kind of in the middle 02:53:21.900 --> 02:53:24.620 of the room, like, splat. 02:53:24.620 --> 02:53:27.460 If you have everyone kind of dodging together 02:53:27.460 --> 02:53:31.380 in the middle you can see there's a lot less people here but like if everyone's like playing 02:53:31.380 --> 02:53:36.820 really close together you're way more likely to have uh like collisions right so you want to 02:53:36.820 --> 02:53:41.540 remove the amount of people that are in the soup in the middle and how we did that was we had 02:53:42.420 --> 02:53:49.380 a warrior always stand on the side close to the gore rattle and he always just leaped over 02:53:49.380 --> 02:53:55.460 the wave you can do that and then we also had a one mage on the left one mage on the right 02:53:55.460 --> 02:53:59.460 what they did was blink through the wave, like this. 02:53:59.460 --> 02:54:02.460 They basically never moved across the room with everyone else, 02:54:02.460 --> 02:54:05.460 just whenever they had a wave come towards them, they just blinked it. 02:54:05.460 --> 02:54:07.460 Same thing with the Warlock Gate right here. 02:54:07.460 --> 02:54:10.460 We had a Warlock on Fired Upside, T.H.T. would port it. 02:54:10.460 --> 02:54:13.460 And then we, on the other side, because there's only one hard set, 02:54:13.460 --> 02:54:16.460 we actually utilized Void Elf, so on the other side we didn't have a Warlock, 02:54:16.460 --> 02:54:22.460 we actually had Cine, and Cine would Void Elf on this set 02:54:22.460 --> 02:54:28.620 to just reduce the amount of confusion and to spread people out more so he knows left side is safe 02:54:28.620 --> 02:54:30.140 What he does is he stays in this spot? 02:54:30.140 --> 02:54:36.500 He goes over here he void elves through and then he jumps through if we added Cini into this mess of people over here 02:54:36.980 --> 02:54:41.860 It would obviously cause a lot more cleaves, but because we're removing wall life by leaping we're removing 02:54:42.460 --> 02:54:47.340 Hopeful we're removing Cini it makes these people over here less likely to run into each other 02:54:47.340 --> 02:54:55.980 By the way, Void Elf is really underrated. If you guys are playing a class and Void Elf is like 02:54:55.980 --> 02:55:02.700 very close to simming as much as like your main racial, I would highly recommend just playing 02:55:02.700 --> 02:55:04.220 Void Elf. It is extremely good. 02:55:17.340 --> 02:55:23.340 Max, what's something you've learned from another guild during progression that saved you the most time in your own progression? 02:55:28.340 --> 02:55:34.340 Maybe Echo of Naltharion, P1 from Echo, they had like the list week aura for determining where people would go. 02:55:34.340 --> 02:55:37.340 That was really, really smart. 02:55:37.340 --> 02:55:41.340 That was like in the middle of like the private aura disarmament thing. 02:55:47.340 --> 02:55:54.340 Yeah, Fractalist. Fractalist is a good example. 02:55:54.340 --> 02:55:59.340 An example of something that didn't matter this year was the Prop Paladin 02:55:59.340 --> 02:56:05.340 Immuning things on Twin Fangs. That was like, we literally killed the boss longer trying to do that. 02:56:05.340 --> 02:56:07.340 If we would have just done it, Natty, we would have killed it faster. 02:56:07.340 --> 02:56:10.340 On the pull we killed it, we didn't even utilize the Onk shit at all. 02:56:10.340 --> 02:56:13.340 We just basically spell warded one time at the end to reduce some stacks 02:56:13.340 --> 02:56:15.340 and it wouldn't have affected our killing anyway. 02:56:18.340 --> 02:56:22.340 Nothing really on, like, Coiled Alter this tier. 02:56:22.340 --> 02:56:24.340 I don't think there's anything, I mean, the thing I'm talking about, 02:56:24.340 --> 02:56:28.340 stealing the shit from Echo this tier about the, like, notes was awesome. 02:56:28.340 --> 02:56:32.340 That was, like, really, really smart from them. 02:56:32.340 --> 02:56:34.340 Like an under-heralded thing. 02:56:34.340 --> 02:56:38.340 Like, it's not, like, a big, crazy thing on your UI to where people really notice it. 02:56:38.340 --> 02:56:41.340 I don't even know how many people even noticed that in the race when it was happening, 02:56:41.340 --> 02:56:46.620 happening but like that was a pretty big jump in P1 consistency for sure. 02:56:52.340 --> 02:56:56.500 I'm trying to think in other raids like what we woke up to and we were like 02:56:56.500 --> 02:57:03.940 holy fuck that's crazy that's so good let's do that. I don't know I'm sure 02:57:03.940 --> 02:57:06.660 there are some things we've come up with that other guilds have taken as 02:57:06.660 --> 02:57:09.580 well but I'm obviously not in their position I don't know like what they 02:57:09.580 --> 02:57:12.920 thought of ahead of time versus what they took. 02:57:12.920 --> 02:57:15.140 The Venn diagram, we were the first people to Venn diagram. 02:57:20.700 --> 02:57:25.940 The macro tech on Firehack, we did not take the, oh, you mean 02:57:25.940 --> 02:57:27.380 like something that we did? 02:57:29.900 --> 02:57:32.580 I noticed the mage blinking constantly, but not the 02:57:32.580 --> 02:57:33.540 reasoning behind it. 02:57:33.540 --> 02:57:35.380 Yeah, that was the reasoning behind it. 02:57:39.580 --> 02:57:45.060 The Degen strat with the pulsing ring in Nyalotha. 02:57:45.060 --> 02:57:50.780 Oh, do you mean, uh, yeah, what boss was that? 02:57:50.780 --> 02:57:55.060 Um, Il-Gnoth. 02:57:55.060 --> 02:57:58.020 Yeah, we didn't take that though. We did it in Addy. 02:57:58.020 --> 02:58:03.020 The top three guilds all did it in Addy and it was like someone coming up with it afterwards and it became like the new strat. 02:58:09.580 --> 02:58:31.020 Yeah, Lady Ashtame was good. 02:58:31.020 --> 02:58:34.300 Tishi said we knew about the Ilganoff ship, but we thought we would get banned, or they 02:58:34.300 --> 02:58:35.300 would change it. 02:58:35.300 --> 02:58:36.300 Actually true. 02:58:36.300 --> 02:58:39.300 I bet if we were progressing Ilganoff that way, I bet they would have changed it live, 02:58:39.300 --> 02:58:41.220 but after we killed it they just didn't do it. 02:58:41.220 --> 02:58:42.780 There's a lot of examples of stuff like that 02:58:42.780 --> 02:58:45.700 happening back then, where like if it's a way 02:58:45.700 --> 02:58:47.300 that something's gonna be killed for world first, 02:58:47.300 --> 02:58:48.700 they'll change it, but if like if a world first 02:58:48.700 --> 02:58:49.780 has happened and people do it, 02:58:49.780 --> 02:58:51.620 they just are clearly paying less attention 02:58:51.620 --> 02:58:52.620 to stuff like that. 02:58:55.060 --> 02:58:58.260 Did y'all create the smolderon macro? 02:58:58.260 --> 02:59:00.620 Oh, because it was a private aura, but it's still, 02:59:00.620 --> 02:59:03.820 I mean, I don't know if they also had a version of it, 02:59:03.820 --> 02:59:05.420 but I think we killed the boss first 02:59:05.420 --> 02:59:07.580 and got to the boss first and we used one, 02:59:07.580 --> 02:59:16.500 So maybe who started jumping the walls on Mugsy? 02:59:16.500 --> 02:59:21.620 The mage-like alter timing, like porting out, I mean, 02:59:21.620 --> 02:59:23.580 it just would have been whoever's on the boss first. 02:59:23.580 --> 02:59:25.340 It's kind of like the only way to play it. 02:59:25.340 --> 02:59:40.460 Wait, did Blizzard, so BlizzCon posted the like schedule, right? 02:59:40.460 --> 02:59:51.500 I want to read through that. 02:59:51.500 --> 02:59:52.500 Let's see. 02:59:52.500 --> 02:59:58.060 I want to see if there's anything interesting for me. 02:59:58.060 --> 03:00:06.020 So opening ceremony, 10.30 a.m. on Saturday, okay, then at 12 p.m. on the main stage World 03:00:06.020 --> 03:00:07.460 of Warcraft is what's next. 03:00:07.460 --> 03:00:20.100 If I'm going to guess, because I think they're also going to announce the next expansion, 03:00:20.100 --> 03:00:22.380 But also, I think Classic Plus is the, 03:00:24.060 --> 03:00:25.460 or they're gonna like give you some information 03:00:25.460 --> 03:00:28.820 on the last Titan and Classic Plus, yeah. 03:00:32.060 --> 03:00:33.780 Dude, I still think Classic Plus, 03:00:33.780 --> 03:00:35.220 I know people are so hyped for it. 03:00:35.220 --> 03:00:37.100 I think it's going to be very polarizing. 03:00:37.100 --> 03:00:40.180 And it's because I don't think the Classic Community 03:00:40.180 --> 03:00:42.740 has a very unified thought on what they want from that. 03:00:42.740 --> 03:00:45.740 And the more they change about Classic, 03:00:45.740 --> 03:00:46.900 the more cool it can be, 03:00:46.900 --> 03:00:48.340 but it also gets away from like, 03:00:48.340 --> 03:00:52.200 I just think that it's a very, very tight line to walk 03:00:53.500 --> 03:00:55.300 of like keeping it still classic 03:00:55.300 --> 03:00:56.460 while also making it new, 03:00:56.460 --> 03:00:59.180 but it not just becoming retail, you know? 03:00:59.180 --> 03:01:03.140 Like, and I feel like there's not gonna be a ton of agreeing 03:01:03.140 --> 03:01:05.460 on what that should look like, but who knows. 03:01:10.780 --> 03:01:12.020 Now, but either way, they're excited for it. 03:01:12.020 --> 03:01:12.860 So that's good. 03:01:12.860 --> 03:01:13.860 So that's probably what that's about, I think. 03:01:13.860 --> 03:01:16.420 And then Overwatch stuff, that's fine. 03:01:16.420 --> 03:01:18.860 Hearthstone, yo. 03:01:20.100 --> 03:01:24.020 Diablo immortal, boss Gauntlet, let's fucking go. 03:01:24.020 --> 03:01:27.040 No way, no way. 03:01:28.300 --> 03:01:31.840 Okay, later on that day, 03:01:31.840 --> 03:01:36.840 MDI Grand Finals, Dignitas versus Chinese team 03:01:36.840 --> 03:01:39.700 that will almost certainly win the whole cup. 03:01:39.700 --> 03:01:42.980 Diablo developer update, main stage, 03:01:42.980 --> 03:01:46.060 MDI Grand Finals, Liquid versus Mandatory, 03:01:46.060 --> 03:01:48.180 That's the non-China world championship right here, 03:01:48.180 --> 03:01:50.440 because whoever wins this match is going to get absolutely 03:01:50.440 --> 03:01:53.900 smoked by the Chinese team right afterwards. 03:01:53.900 --> 03:01:56.420 World of Warcraft, what's next again at 245? 03:01:56.420 --> 03:01:57.340 What's next two? 03:01:57.340 --> 03:01:58.860 So one of those will be about classic, 03:01:58.860 --> 03:02:00.340 one will be about retail probably. 03:02:03.420 --> 03:02:07.860 World of Warcraft developer X creator showcase. 03:02:07.860 --> 03:02:08.700 What is that? 03:02:12.140 --> 03:02:13.860 Maybe that's the thing I'm doing. 03:02:13.860 --> 03:02:22.620 I have heard that I'm talking to a developer on stage at some point via Scott, but I don't 03:02:22.620 --> 03:02:23.780 know anything else about that. 03:02:23.780 --> 03:02:26.180 I don't have any other confirmation. 03:02:26.180 --> 03:02:28.220 Scott normally knows what he's talking about. 03:02:28.220 --> 03:02:31.460 I don't know if that's me, but we'll find out. 03:02:31.460 --> 03:02:33.500 I'm also streaming part of this day. 03:02:33.500 --> 03:02:34.820 They have a stream set up for me. 03:02:34.820 --> 03:02:38.220 I don't know exactly what that'll look like, but yeah. 03:02:38.220 --> 03:02:41.860 LISCON, Community Night, MDI Grand Finals, 03:02:41.860 --> 03:02:45.780 so Chinese team versus whoever wins against Liquid and Echo. 03:02:48.660 --> 03:02:49.980 And then that's the end of that day. 03:02:49.980 --> 03:02:51.020 All right, maybe it's the next day 03:02:51.020 --> 03:02:51.860 where I'm doing the thing. 03:02:51.860 --> 03:02:54.500 All right, let's say the beginning of the day. 03:02:54.500 --> 03:02:56.580 World of Warcraft, Deep Dive. 03:02:56.580 --> 03:02:58.140 World of Warcraft, Housing. 03:02:59.940 --> 03:03:01.260 Diablo IV, What's Next? 03:03:01.260 --> 03:03:03.500 World of Building and Warcraft, Questwatch, 03:03:03.500 --> 03:03:08.500 AWC Grand Finals, Art Design, Design Deep Dive, 03:03:15.300 --> 03:03:17.840 World of Warcraft Hardcore, What's Next, 03:03:20.060 --> 03:03:22.260 Live Performance. 03:03:22.260 --> 03:03:23.100 All right, cool. 03:03:23.100 --> 03:03:34.980 I kind of don't want to co-stream the MDI here. 03:03:34.980 --> 03:03:39.400 I want to like watch it live, although if they could have me co-streaming like really close 03:03:39.400 --> 03:03:41.200 to it, that would be really cool. 03:03:41.200 --> 03:03:47.340 I could bring like a little iPad with Dorky's PNG on it. 03:03:47.340 --> 03:03:51.980 Max, why are you still at the facility? 03:03:51.980 --> 03:03:53.300 Do you live close or something? 03:03:53.300 --> 03:03:54.300 Yeah. 03:03:54.300 --> 03:04:08.660 I do actually think it will be pretty fun to watch the Liquid vs. Echo match because 03:04:08.660 --> 03:04:12.260 both teams will have relatively such little practice time. 03:04:12.260 --> 03:04:17.680 To give you an idea, I was talking to Yps and Zevi about this the other day, and they 03:04:17.680 --> 03:04:25.960 were after we won, and they were like, yeah, it usually takes about three full, like, 14-hour 03:04:25.960 --> 03:04:30.600 days to like, fully cook one dungeon to where you feel like you're done with it, and like, 03:04:30.600 --> 03:04:33.600 you're doing the thing you're gonna do. 03:04:33.600 --> 03:04:37.560 And they have seven days until they have to play from the time that we ended. 03:04:37.560 --> 03:04:40.760 So they're going to at most, and there's seven dungeons, they're gonna at most have 03:04:40.760 --> 03:04:48.080 one day per dungeon, which is obviously going to be much closer to a W route than coming 03:04:48.080 --> 03:04:52.600 up with something really cool. Meanwhile, the Chinese team has practiced for over a month 03:04:52.600 --> 03:04:59.040 and they're good. So that is why they are going to absolutely smoke everyone. Oh, yeah, 03:04:59.040 --> 03:05:03.080 the EU team has to fly in too. Yeah. So they're like losing even a day probably, 03:05:03.080 --> 03:05:21.080 which sucks even more. Yeah, it's a very not ideal race timing and dungeon timing and stuff, 03:05:21.080 --> 03:05:42.240 Cush said they have one day of practice, then one day of travel, and then get over the jet 03:05:42.240 --> 03:05:46.520 lag and maybe one and a half days of practice in NA before they hit the stage. 03:05:46.520 --> 03:05:48.280 Yep, that's even worse. 03:05:48.280 --> 03:05:52.280 I mean, like I said, the Chinese team is going to win everything. 03:05:52.280 --> 03:05:58.280 It's just more about who wins the other matches because there's no, like, if it was like one, 03:05:58.280 --> 03:06:01.280 the one match was on day one and the other matches were on day two, maybe everyone could 03:06:01.280 --> 03:06:05.680 just watch the Chinese team play and steal all their strats and maybe have enough time 03:06:05.680 --> 03:06:09.780 to perfect it within the rest of the day of practice, but it's all in one day. 03:06:09.780 --> 03:06:17.280 So you have no chance of doing that. 03:06:17.280 --> 03:06:20.500 Isn't it crazy that the qualifier was different dungeons in another season? 03:06:20.500 --> 03:06:23.180 It's a little crazy, but also it's like kind of the only way it could have happened with 03:06:23.180 --> 03:06:40.140 the timeline rate of when they were doing this season and when they were doing BlizzCon. 03:06:40.140 --> 03:06:45.100 Are there any good EUMDI teams that don't have raced world first players or no? 03:06:45.100 --> 03:06:48.620 four qualified for this tournament and I don't believe there was any teams that did not have 03:06:48.620 --> 03:06:54.940 it uh raced world first players on them except for the Chinese team. Like pretty much all of the 03:06:54.940 --> 03:07:01.180 like really really top top MDI teams are almost always either fully or mostly comprised of raced 03:07:01.180 --> 03:07:18.180 first players. 03:07:18.180 --> 03:07:22.180 I have a feeling like this stream is ending in the next five minutes. 03:07:22.180 --> 03:07:24.180 Hmm. 03:07:24.180 --> 03:07:27.180 I actually wasn't thinking about that. 03:07:27.180 --> 03:07:35.580 because there is still just like so much to go over, but it does sound nice to do that. 03:07:38.940 --> 03:07:45.980 Watch the Skype interview. Oh yeah, I want to watch that. Echo Guild. 03:07:49.340 --> 03:07:53.660 Tear down. Oh yeah, they stream their te- wait is this like where all the players are playing? 03:07:53.660 --> 03:07:58.300 like their desks were lined up like that. Where can I find a picture of what it looks 03:07:58.300 --> 03:08:09.300 like when it's not being torn down? Check VODs rewind? I mean, I guess I'll just rewind 03:08:09.300 --> 03:08:29.300 of 03:08:29.300 --> 03:08:31.300 I 03:08:39.540 --> 03:08:41.540 Roger Roger still there 03:08:59.300 --> 03:09:16.580 of 03:09:16.580 --> 03:09:23.460 Oh, they still have the PCs out and everything. 03:09:23.460 --> 03:09:25.560 Wait, how many players do they have there? 03:09:25.560 --> 03:09:32.060 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, something like that. 03:09:32.060 --> 03:09:35.060 10-12. 03:09:35.060 --> 03:09:45.300 Alright, let me find their last broadcast here. 03:09:45.300 --> 03:09:52.420 Broadcast which one is it this one was five hours is the rebroadcast or the 03:09:54.660 --> 03:10:01.900 They're like all titled rebroadcasts because eventually they all become rebroadcasts like during the night and they replay the stuff during the day 03:10:03.700 --> 03:10:05.700 That's definitely not this one. Maybe it's this one 03:10:12.740 --> 03:10:14.740 Wait 03:10:15.300 --> 03:10:17.300 You know what we should do? 03:10:17.300 --> 03:10:19.300 Like the trick where I just disappear and then... 03:10:19.300 --> 03:10:21.300 Why is the audio fucked? 03:10:21.300 --> 03:10:23.300 Go ahead. 03:10:23.300 --> 03:10:25.300 What the fuck? 03:10:29.300 --> 03:10:31.300 There is a lot of damage there. 03:10:31.300 --> 03:10:33.300 What the fuck is this? 03:10:33.300 --> 03:10:35.300 There is this entire thing where... 03:10:35.300 --> 03:10:37.300 It was their stream? 03:10:37.300 --> 03:10:39.300 Are you sure it's not me? 03:10:41.300 --> 03:10:43.300 Here. Boom. 03:10:43.300 --> 03:10:48.420 He just hits everyone. Okay. This is it actually echo 7% 03:10:51.340 --> 03:10:55.540 Liquid 30 and we've had 299 pulls so we haven't woke up yet 03:10:57.020 --> 03:10:59.020 7% 03:10:59.100 --> 03:11:02.420 You know, it's a funny story actually like when I got up this morning 03:11:02.620 --> 03:11:05.220 Like I went to bed feeling pretty confident about the day 03:11:05.220 --> 03:11:07.700 I was like we're definitely gonna kill the boss tomorrow 03:11:07.700 --> 03:11:10.460 But I didn't think echo would be as low as they were when we woke up 03:11:10.460 --> 03:11:14.160 So I was just, like, you know, getting dressed, 03:11:14.160 --> 03:11:15.280 about to leave my house. 03:11:15.280 --> 03:11:18.100 It's like a 20 minute drive to the Team Liquid facility 03:11:18.100 --> 03:11:20.120 in traffic in the morning, sometimes 30. 03:11:21.600 --> 03:11:23.760 And my girlfriend was like, all right, let's go, 03:11:23.760 --> 03:11:25.000 let's go, it's time to go. 03:11:25.000 --> 03:11:26.880 And I didn't really parse why. 03:11:26.880 --> 03:11:28.680 She was just, you know, trying to get me out of the house. 03:11:28.680 --> 03:11:31.560 And it was because she looked at her phone, 03:11:31.560 --> 03:11:33.520 saw Echo was low. 03:11:33.520 --> 03:11:36.640 And, like, I never want to know where Echo is 03:11:36.640 --> 03:11:38.040 until I get to the facility. 03:11:38.040 --> 03:11:42.700 I just don't look at my phone ever on purpose and she knows that so she didn't tell me 03:11:42.700 --> 03:11:46.840 But was like trying to like usher me out of the house to to go to the facility, which was kind of cute 03:11:51.380 --> 03:11:55.580 But there is ways happening during this but also they cannot touch they as a whole 03:11:55.800 --> 03:12:02.200 Okay, they've got a seven percent wipe still 299 we're still asleep at this point those grasping fans 299 320 03:12:02.200 --> 03:12:04.200 We're still asleep. Okay. Now we're awake 03:12:04.200 --> 03:12:07.400 But the boss will soon enough cast. 03:12:07.400 --> 03:12:09.360 So this is where I think the race world first fan, 03:12:09.360 --> 03:12:12.320 and it's really hard to do it because you don't know the fight, doesn't get it. 03:12:12.320 --> 03:12:16.240 And they see Echo having wiped at seven and then five and then four and then three 03:12:16.240 --> 03:12:17.560 and then two and then one. 03:12:17.560 --> 03:12:19.960 And they assume every guild has to go through that. 03:12:20.560 --> 03:12:22.440 So they're like, this race isn't very close. 03:12:22.440 --> 03:12:26.560 But like at this very moment, either one of our guilds could kill it in every poll. 03:12:26.920 --> 03:12:31.240 But the the like the position is like Echo is dominating 03:12:31.240 --> 03:12:33.000 and Echo is going to win and no one else is close. 03:12:33.000 --> 03:12:37.340 Like for example, Ekko could have killed the boss right here and we could have had a 03:12:38.700 --> 03:12:44.400 30% wipe, a 15% wipe, a 1% wipe and we would have all been the same level of close. 03:12:45.400 --> 03:12:50.480 If that makes sense, but I feel like if we would have if they would have killed it now and we were still at 29% 03:12:51.160 --> 03:12:57.000 It would have been like Ekko won by a mile. This is like Ansurek all over again or something, even though any pull could have been. 03:12:57.000 --> 03:12:59.000 The bridge in the middle of the powerhouse. 03:12:59.000 --> 03:13:01.500 Oh, Miros is taking a lot of damage, remains. 03:13:01.500 --> 03:13:04.000 We need to get some of those shield chickens. 03:13:04.000 --> 03:13:05.500 Okay, skipping ahead. 03:13:05.500 --> 03:13:06.500 Insane job. 03:13:08.500 --> 03:13:10.500 15% HP right now. 03:13:10.500 --> 03:13:11.500 We are spreading it. 03:13:11.500 --> 03:13:12.500 It's an exciting thing. 03:13:12.500 --> 03:13:14.500 Wait, backing up? 03:13:14.500 --> 03:13:16.500 That will be it. 03:13:20.500 --> 03:13:23.500 I never heard Preach's Na'Vi reaction. 03:13:23.500 --> 03:13:25.000 Someone came in and saw me. 03:13:25.000 --> 03:13:28.500 I heard his reaction when Ekko killed it, but not when we killed it. 03:13:28.500 --> 03:13:30.500 The 03:13:35.340 --> 03:13:40.700 There was a time when I was known for casting excellent kills of well first bosses 03:13:41.180 --> 03:13:45.080 But I've got even better ladies and gentlemen at saying G 03:13:46.080 --> 03:13:52.700 Liquid as they have claimed the world's first pool attack in the last few minutes. How many has liquid one in a row now? 03:13:52.700 --> 03:14:06.700 It's a hotly debated topic. You have to talk about which raids you're including. It's like five is probably the answer. 03:14:06.700 --> 03:14:12.700 But if you include Void Spire and the Dream Rift as their own raids, it's seven. 03:14:12.700 --> 03:14:21.300 Obviously this tier you have to count the world boss, that was its own raid and we got world 03:14:21.300 --> 03:14:22.300 first on that. 03:14:22.300 --> 03:14:23.300 That's 8. 03:14:23.300 --> 03:14:29.900 You have to include Rotmire from last patch which would make it 9. 03:14:29.900 --> 03:14:42.900 And then it comes down to Heroic BRD and that can make it to 10. 03:14:42.900 --> 03:14:58.140 That's only if you include the really important ones. 03:14:58.140 --> 03:15:01.580 I'm actually so sad that we killed it on such a bad DPS pull. 03:15:01.580 --> 03:15:04.000 I wanted to just kill it like halfway through the amp. 03:15:04.000 --> 03:15:05.780 10% wipes, just straight in. 03:15:05.780 --> 03:15:08.060 Come boom, get it done. 03:15:08.060 --> 03:15:09.900 I mean, that is what I compete with. 03:15:09.900 --> 03:15:13.380 They're absolute masters of doing exactly what they've just done. 03:15:13.380 --> 03:15:16.260 Echo absolute masters of the 1% wipe. 03:15:16.260 --> 03:15:16.820 Yeah. 03:15:16.820 --> 03:15:17.540 Oh, damn. 03:15:17.540 --> 03:15:21.260 I mean, we are, I mean, at this point, I think it is fair to say we are masters 03:15:21.260 --> 03:15:24.940 of waking up and seeming like we're going to lose and then clutching out. 03:15:24.940 --> 03:15:28.900 I mean, that's just, it simply happened for like three straight raids. 03:15:28.900 --> 03:15:31.100 And last year it happened on two back-to-back days. 03:15:31.100 --> 03:15:34.700 That is something that does need to change, but what a performance. 03:15:34.900 --> 03:15:37.100 We just watched the liquid kill as it was happening. 03:15:37.100 --> 03:15:38.500 And unfortunately, you guys took a break. 03:15:38.500 --> 03:15:39.740 Yeah, how it is, you guys. 03:15:40.140 --> 03:15:41.980 Max, why do you trash method, by the way? 03:15:42.940 --> 03:15:45.780 Have I trashed method? 03:15:45.780 --> 03:15:49.980 What have I ever said in this tier or in general that has trash method? 03:15:50.180 --> 03:15:52.340 Like, what do you even mean? 03:15:52.340 --> 03:15:52.820 It's like a break. 03:15:52.820 --> 03:15:57.540 came in and you're going like like give me what's your name ton to 95 give me an 03:15:57.540 --> 03:16:01.100 example it's all right I'm gonna go back I'm gonna say this I don't think you are 03:16:01.100 --> 03:16:04.500 I think you're about to say something else like anytime someone asked me before 03:16:04.500 --> 03:16:08.980 the tier how method is going to do this tier I'm like I'm not in that guild I 03:16:08.980 --> 03:16:13.700 have no way to tell you and but I hope they do well or something that's like 03:16:13.700 --> 03:16:17.660 I feel like I'd never say anything more than that yeah liquids pull as it was 03:16:17.660 --> 03:16:21.420 happening and then what do you mean I was like look at that screen right 03:16:21.420 --> 03:16:26.700 there as the achievement did pop up for them what a stellar performance and once again as race fans 03:16:26.700 --> 03:16:33.340 we were blessed with that side by side that we hope and pray for yeah for the race uh echo right 03:16:33.340 --> 03:16:37.420 now we're obviously going to try and clutch out i never look at method is pretty harsh but that's 03:16:37.420 --> 03:16:41.820 not what i said though someone was like i was like we're waking up and we're seeing what echo is 03:16:41.820 --> 03:16:45.020 doing and someone just shadows like do you like how do you think methods doing this here it's 03:16:45.020 --> 03:16:48.940 like i don't know because i haven't seen what they're doing like and what i mean by that is 03:16:48.940 --> 03:16:55.220 If we're waking up and we're copying shit to have the most efficient raid day we can and echo is the guild in the lead that has gotten the farthest 03:16:55.220 --> 03:16:57.220 We're going to look at what they're doing and take what they're doing 03:16:58.340 --> 03:17:00.340 Like if method was in that position 03:17:00.500 --> 03:17:04.540 We would have watched them. I like but I feel like people took that as me saying like now 03:17:04.540 --> 03:17:07.060 We don't watch method because they fucking suck like 03:17:08.340 --> 03:17:12.660 Method like like if they were in a position where they were doing stuff that we would 03:17:13.260 --> 03:17:17.060 Like on coiled altar or something and then they were like doing some crazy shit 03:17:17.060 --> 03:17:20.120 that we would take it, do you know what I mean? 03:17:20.120 --> 03:17:22.120 Like, but that's, I feel like that's how you all take it. 03:17:22.120 --> 03:17:24.440 You take it like so bad. 03:17:24.440 --> 03:17:25.760 I'm just telling you what we're doing. 03:17:25.760 --> 03:17:27.080 Like, someone's saying like, 03:17:27.080 --> 03:17:28.240 how do you feel like Method's doing this here? 03:17:28.240 --> 03:17:29.920 And I would tell you genuinely I don't know 03:17:29.920 --> 03:17:31.840 because I don't ever watch other guilds 03:17:31.840 --> 03:17:33.360 on my other monitor while we're progressing 03:17:33.360 --> 03:17:36.260 because it makes me nervous if they do well. 03:17:36.260 --> 03:17:38.840 And we only look at other guilds to learn from 03:17:38.840 --> 03:17:40.360 when we're seeing what they're doing on a fight 03:17:40.360 --> 03:17:41.360 to change what we're gonna do, 03:17:41.360 --> 03:17:43.120 which is only when we wake up and they're ahead of us 03:17:43.120 --> 03:17:44.960 and this year that was Echo every single day 03:17:44.960 --> 03:17:46.720 when we were on hard bosses. 03:17:46.720 --> 03:17:50.020 So like, it's not slander, it's just like what it is. 03:17:51.560 --> 03:17:53.040 Like you guys are aware of where Method is 03:17:53.040 --> 03:17:54.680 because you're watching the whole race, we don't do that. 03:17:54.680 --> 03:17:57.520 This quick second place, I- 03:17:57.520 --> 03:17:59.320 Wait, he replied, what did he say? 03:18:01.960 --> 03:18:02.800 Where? 03:18:02.800 --> 03:18:04.160 We got an orange name, right? 03:18:08.880 --> 03:18:10.080 It's when they killed Scissorack, 03:18:10.080 --> 03:18:12.360 but you were like, yeah, but it won't matter in the end. 03:18:12.360 --> 03:18:13.960 I mean, yeah, that's true. 03:18:13.960 --> 03:18:15.760 But like, I feel like you're taking that, 03:18:15.760 --> 03:18:16.600 Like someone asked me like, 03:18:16.600 --> 03:18:18.100 what do you think about Method Kill instead of Rack? 03:18:18.100 --> 03:18:20.100 And I'm just like, ain't shit. 03:18:20.100 --> 03:18:21.720 I didn't say that. 03:18:21.720 --> 03:18:23.840 Like what I said was people in chat 03:18:23.840 --> 03:18:26.760 were talking about how Echo was lost this tier. 03:18:27.680 --> 03:18:30.160 And the only goal of that week 03:18:30.160 --> 03:18:31.880 was to get as much gear as possible 03:18:31.880 --> 03:18:33.680 and Echo got the most gear as possible. 03:18:33.680 --> 03:18:35.840 So they objectively did heroic week better 03:18:35.840 --> 03:18:37.000 than everyone else. 03:18:37.000 --> 03:18:38.640 But the narrative was that method was, 03:18:38.640 --> 03:18:41.300 method was an unprecedented owning position 03:18:41.300 --> 03:18:42.600 and Echo was behind. 03:18:42.600 --> 03:18:44.200 I took ourselves out of it 03:18:44.200 --> 03:18:45.320 because we're doing something different. 03:18:45.320 --> 03:18:46.160 We're on a different reset. 03:18:46.160 --> 03:18:48.000 We lost more time on our first day. 03:18:48.000 --> 03:18:50.880 You're not gonna be able to do the same things, right? 03:18:50.880 --> 03:18:52.680 We did not have seven full progression days 03:18:52.680 --> 03:18:54.040 to do as much splits as we could do 03:18:54.040 --> 03:18:55.200 and both of those two did. 03:18:55.200 --> 03:18:57.020 So you're comparing them, right? 03:18:57.020 --> 03:18:58.520 So in that scenario, you guys were saying 03:18:58.520 --> 03:19:00.600 like method is actually on a heater. 03:19:00.600 --> 03:19:01.440 They're going crazy, 03:19:01.440 --> 03:19:04.720 because they killed two like pretty easy early bosses. 03:19:04.720 --> 03:19:05.600 And the only reason, 03:19:05.600 --> 03:19:07.940 not maybe not the only reason, right? 03:19:07.940 --> 03:19:09.880 But Echo just didn't do that first. 03:19:09.880 --> 03:19:11.480 Echo did the bot. 03:19:11.480 --> 03:19:12.520 They did Vashnik. 03:19:12.520 --> 03:19:14.840 They just did way more two out of eights 03:19:14.840 --> 03:19:20.240 and they ended up doing some fours later, but they just did the easy stuff first to get as many mythic stuff as much mythic stuff 03:19:20.240 --> 03:19:26.200 done as possible. And by the way, they ended up with more boss kills and more loot than any guild leaving the first week. 03:19:26.520 --> 03:19:32.000 So they did the best job in the first week, yet the narrative was the opposite. 03:19:32.000 --> 03:19:35.800 So that's what I said was that like people were, I was basically implying that 03:19:36.440 --> 03:19:43.000 from the like Echo versus Method comparison that Echo was actually doing better and Chat thought I was like flaming method when I was 03:19:43.000 --> 03:19:44.120 just telling you how it works. 03:19:44.120 --> 03:19:47.160 I don't think it's objectively easy to understand 03:19:47.160 --> 03:19:48.960 or that they were doing poorly. 03:19:48.960 --> 03:19:50.640 But yeah, like them going dark 03:19:50.640 --> 03:19:52.800 and choosing to do scissorack in week one 03:19:52.800 --> 03:19:55.040 instead of more early bosses and more splits 03:19:55.040 --> 03:19:58.080 as in comparison to Echo wasn't like an owning moment. 03:20:00.840 --> 03:20:01.800 But I understand why. 03:20:01.800 --> 03:20:03.200 Like if you're really emotional about it, 03:20:03.200 --> 03:20:05.200 like you really want method to succeed. 03:20:05.200 --> 03:20:07.160 You want this three horse race more than anything. 03:20:07.160 --> 03:20:09.200 I understand how you can take something like that 03:20:09.200 --> 03:20:11.480 that I say and you're just, it makes you mad 03:20:11.480 --> 03:20:12.840 because what you want me to say is like, 03:20:12.840 --> 03:20:14.400 I'm so impressed with them or something, 03:20:14.400 --> 03:20:16.320 when in a lot of cases in the race, 03:20:16.320 --> 03:20:20.200 there wasn't actually a lot of chances for us to watch them. 03:20:20.200 --> 03:20:22.960 And outside of that, I actually do not know. 03:20:22.960 --> 03:20:27.240 Throughout the race, I have no clue how low 03:20:27.240 --> 03:20:31.240 any other guild is on any boss, except for in the morning, 03:20:31.240 --> 03:20:33.880 when we wake up and look at their stuff 03:20:33.880 --> 03:20:37.320 to copy for what we can, the guild that's ahead. 03:20:37.320 --> 03:20:39.040 And then I don't look at them for the rest of the day, 03:20:39.040 --> 03:20:41.680 And I don't look at them when we go to bed, ever. 03:20:41.680 --> 03:20:43.640 So like I have no way of knowing where the guild is 03:20:43.640 --> 03:20:45.880 when you ask me, right? 03:20:45.880 --> 03:20:49.920 Again, I can't tell you what the mood is like in here 03:20:49.920 --> 03:20:52.320 right now it is, not happy. 03:20:52.320 --> 03:20:54.160 No, they are, we're not pleased. 03:20:54.160 --> 03:20:55.520 I mean, what can you do? 03:20:55.520 --> 03:20:56.920 They didn't see it's coming. 03:20:56.920 --> 03:20:58.320 Grounded wind didn't see it's coming. 03:20:58.320 --> 03:21:00.160 Probably liquid didn't see it's coming. 03:21:00.160 --> 03:21:01.800 But what an amazing clutch by liquid. 03:21:01.800 --> 03:21:03.740 But that does not go against the chief 03:21:03.740 --> 03:21:06.280 as an echo has shown for today. 03:21:06.280 --> 03:21:08.000 The consistency in the last year hours 03:21:08.000 --> 03:21:08.840 has been crazy. 03:21:08.840 --> 03:21:15.800 I'd say over the whole race, they have not had a 5th grade day, they should be, I imagine the comments will be and I believe rightly so, we were talking about... 03:21:15.800 --> 03:21:19.080 Max doesn't hate Method, he just hates all their players and casters. 03:21:19.720 --> 03:21:20.680 What the fuck? 03:21:20.680 --> 03:21:26.680 Dude, I had dinner with Sco like two times when he was in L.A. somewhat recently. 03:21:26.680 --> 03:21:32.680 Jumping into the pool, Max said he got a bit hilarious when we thought it was hotfix, like, pools closed, pools open! 03:21:32.680 --> 03:21:33.720 That's not recent. 03:21:33.720 --> 03:21:34.520 Pool's closed, you guys! 03:21:34.520 --> 03:21:36.920 It's recently in terms of like since he was in America probably. 03:21:36.920 --> 03:21:42.040 for this ride and it has been fantastic to watch on both streams of what has been going on but 03:21:42.040 --> 03:21:46.680 a little bit of an overcook I found about about a couple of hours before we started killing someone 03:21:46.680 --> 03:21:51.800 came in and told me why you guys are way over killing this it seems unnecessary yeah but they 03:21:51.800 --> 03:21:57.560 went for it in theory it worked out but obviously presented a ton of problems for them to I mean 03:21:57.560 --> 03:22:02.440 they were in kill position several times the guys know that's all right I want to 03:22:02.440 --> 03:22:05.440 listen to the interview now and the way 03:22:05.440 --> 03:22:09.840 oh the first guy that's really hard to 03:22:09.840 --> 03:22:11.860 watch hopefully I mean there's Rogers 03:22:11.860 --> 03:22:13.220 usually a pretty good sport about it 03:22:13.220 --> 03:22:17.560 he's a good speaker but it's also this 03:22:17.560 --> 03:22:19.720 this scenario is so impossible to be in 03:22:19.720 --> 03:22:21.120 like you have to create content for 03:22:21.120 --> 03:22:22.640 your stream but the last thing you want 03:22:22.640 --> 03:22:27.760 to do after a devastating loss is to 03:22:27.760 --> 03:22:29.320 like have people ask you questions 03:22:29.320 --> 03:22:30.320 about it, you know? 03:22:30.320 --> 03:22:31.320 Yeah. 03:22:31.320 --> 03:22:39.120 And knowing, knowing what Scryp has now, he's been PVPing NH adders on, which by the way 03:22:39.120 --> 03:22:45.960 is like, I mean, it's respectable, but it's also like it is maddening because these people 03:22:45.960 --> 03:22:47.480 will never change their minds. 03:22:47.480 --> 03:22:50.480 Like these people are just like, yeah, dude, shouldn't have tried to cheese it. 03:22:50.480 --> 03:22:53.240 They have literally no fucking clue what they're talking about and you're trying 03:22:53.240 --> 03:22:55.840 to like respond to these people as if that'll ever matter. 03:22:55.840 --> 03:23:00.960 It only makes you look like you're basically being a crybaby about it and that's all they're 03:23:00.960 --> 03:23:01.960 telling you. 03:23:01.960 --> 03:23:06.680 And you have a 0% chance of making them have more perspective on how this works. 03:23:06.680 --> 03:23:09.720 They're just, they're rabid animals. 03:23:09.720 --> 03:23:16.440 If you don't just say GGs and move on, they think that you're just a crybaby, even 03:23:16.440 --> 03:23:19.360 though they have a large reason to be upset. 03:23:19.360 --> 03:23:23.720 Well, that really just couldn't see if one of these circuits, and then shot them 03:23:23.720 --> 03:23:25.760 shooting waves out of the entire group. 03:23:25.760 --> 03:23:29.040 every time we were like we thought this would fix it because it made no sense if it just blew up 03:23:29.040 --> 03:23:31.600 but there was a person who couldn't speak to you in the knowledge 03:23:31.600 --> 03:23:33.600 oh okay thank you 03:23:33.600 --> 03:23:36.240 so they're showing the bug right away we know how the bug works 03:23:36.240 --> 03:23:40.320 it's always great every time we were like we thought this would fix it because it made no 03:23:40.320 --> 03:23:45.440 sense if it just blew up but there was a person that was bugged from two minutes ago 03:23:45.440 --> 03:23:49.200 that was in the camp because we're all stacking up and just blew us all up 03:23:49.200 --> 03:23:50.400 oh that's a bummer 03:23:50.400 --> 03:23:53.120 have you watched the teal video of Shaq's part of it hope for baking a cake 03:23:53.120 --> 03:23:55.120 No, but I saw the cake and I was scared to eat it 03:23:56.240 --> 03:23:59.400 Lots of quick fixes coming in the MRISO has been there for seven times 03:24:00.080 --> 03:24:04.240 Very overshot the mark. I do have to ask the question though because as soon as I found out about it 03:24:04.240 --> 03:24:07.160 I was like why you guys are way over killing or why are we going into the pool? 03:24:07.160 --> 03:24:09.640 Obviously, I do know why it does really choose the platform 03:24:09.640 --> 03:24:12.760 But considering you guys one shot the box I feel like it's so 03:24:13.480 --> 03:24:15.840 Revisionist to be like, why did you guys go in the pool? 03:24:16.520 --> 03:24:20.960 When like if the bug didn't exist you could just assume it's a more consistent 03:24:20.960 --> 03:24:23.360 It's a DPS increase because you stand still 03:24:23.360 --> 03:24:25.280 and don't have to worry about mechanics. 03:24:26.520 --> 03:24:28.400 And also it's like a mechanic increase 03:24:28.400 --> 03:24:29.240 because you stand still 03:24:29.240 --> 03:24:30.480 and don't have to worry about mechanics. 03:24:30.480 --> 03:24:33.720 It's just a smart thing to do if the bug doesn't work. 03:24:33.720 --> 03:24:35.720 The only reason I would ask the question 03:24:35.720 --> 03:24:37.720 is the first time they got to that part of the fight, 03:24:37.720 --> 03:24:40.800 they stayed on the platform and it went perfectly fine. 03:24:41.900 --> 03:24:43.440 So it's like, why change it? 03:24:43.440 --> 03:24:44.440 And I guess the answer is like, 03:24:44.440 --> 03:24:45.600 well, it's still just easier. 03:24:45.600 --> 03:24:46.920 Like they were probably planning on this 03:24:46.920 --> 03:24:48.120 for a while actually. 03:24:49.000 --> 03:24:53.400 But like the only reason people are asking the questions of why did you go in the pool is because of the bad bug interaction 03:24:53.400 --> 03:24:57.320 Which by the time they made that decision and have committed to it and have done multiple polls with it 03:24:57.960 --> 03:24:59.520 they 03:24:59.520 --> 03:25:05.760 They like they they had already committed when they found out that the bug exists right and that's still them getting fucked 03:25:05.760 --> 03:25:08.480 That's getting fucked by the way. That's not like well 03:25:08.480 --> 03:25:12.000 You guys should have learned from it in chain like no they got fucked by that. That's just a death 03:25:12.000 --> 03:25:13.320 Well, just play to try it. 03:25:13.320 --> 03:25:16.000 I mean, in hindsight, everything you can say is... 03:25:16.000 --> 03:25:17.000 Tyneside completely. 03:25:17.000 --> 03:25:18.000 ...it's a misplay, right? 03:25:18.000 --> 03:25:23.680 But in the moment, the thought process is, in that last bit... 03:25:23.680 --> 03:25:27.240 But they were told that they were going to fix it and still stayed with that strat. 03:25:27.240 --> 03:25:32.040 That's fine though, because what if you kill it that way before they fix it? 03:25:32.040 --> 03:25:33.040 You know? 03:25:33.040 --> 03:25:37.240 In fact, I believe the boss was killed before they fixed it, or I think like they literally... 03:25:37.240 --> 03:25:41.120 Bubba came in on our kill and said they hot-fixed the pool thing. 03:25:41.120 --> 03:25:46.220 the only thing that can kind of mess you up is some dodgy waves because they're 03:25:46.220 --> 03:25:52.820 full RNG where they come from and you want to eliminate as much RNG in the 03:25:52.820 --> 03:25:57.820 fight that's how you typically go about solving fights so the idea was if we 03:25:57.820 --> 03:26:02.340 have people jump in the pool then you remove the RNG of getting bad waves 03:26:02.340 --> 03:26:08.620 and or having the people that have the red circle. IMO it's not in-site 03:26:08.620 --> 03:26:14.480 or hindsight, because doing the phase normally was kind of easy, you can have 03:26:14.480 --> 03:26:17.500 certain parts that are kind of easy. Let's say you're doing P1 of a raid 03:26:17.500 --> 03:26:21.700 fight, and there's a you can YOLO something or hard assign it, and it's 03:26:21.700 --> 03:26:24.800 pretty easy to YOLO it, but if you hard assigned it over a hundred pulls, you 03:26:24.800 --> 03:26:29.000 would wipe two times less. It's still true that YOLOing it is easy, but the 03:26:29.000 --> 03:26:32.180 better Racer World first play is to just do the thing that is the most 03:26:32.180 --> 03:26:36.160 repeatable and consistent, even if it's annoying, to just do the best thing 03:26:36.160 --> 03:26:41.740 you can do. That saves you time. That saves you progress. And this is an example of that. 03:26:41.740 --> 03:26:44.920 Even if something is easy, if something is better, why wouldn't you do it? And the only 03:26:44.920 --> 03:26:49.280 reason you can say why wouldn't you do it is because the boss bugged and exploded you 03:26:49.280 --> 03:26:52.480 when it shouldn't have, which is not a reason to make that decision at the time. 03:26:52.480 --> 03:26:57.920 And then they shoot waves. Having them shoot the players. So, yeah, it's just about 03:26:57.920 --> 03:27:04.960 mitigating energy. And, I mean, this trial works. The bug, we did not expect 03:27:04.960 --> 03:27:07.520 because suddenly you just blow up and you have no idea like what happened. 03:27:07.520 --> 03:27:11.160 Well we had spent going through the water, right? 03:27:11.160 --> 03:27:13.520 Yeah, we were sitting in the castor and we'd see, you know, 03:27:13.520 --> 03:27:15.800 the people in the puddle all blow up and think, 03:27:15.800 --> 03:27:17.120 what just happened there? 03:27:17.120 --> 03:27:21.680 They just suddenly all died and that happens several times in different pools. 03:27:21.680 --> 03:27:23.520 Yeah, we were wondering, is it hot fix? 03:27:23.520 --> 03:27:26.880 Are they suddenly just taking a large amount of damage from the venom? 03:27:26.880 --> 03:27:29.320 But we know that you actually use the encounter room 03:27:29.320 --> 03:27:32.960 to go to from phase one, phase two and into the submission. 03:27:32.960 --> 03:27:34.720 You do have to swim during the encounter. 03:27:34.720 --> 03:27:38.260 it's all of it and to be clear with the way like this it's not like the strat is 03:27:38.260 --> 03:27:43.280 like easier or let me put like this like we have all of the healing cities to do 03:27:43.280 --> 03:27:47.080 that right if you jump in there and you just bait with all of these people like 03:27:47.080 --> 03:27:50.840 at some point you just die right like it's a lot of damage to heal but we have 03:27:50.840 --> 03:27:57.240 saved cooldowns to use there that's why it's possible so it's not like like I 03:27:57.240 --> 03:28:01.040 said it's more about mitigating their energy rather than it being like so much 03:28:01.040 --> 03:28:04.220 better to do this yeah I mean they understood why you're doing it that's 03:28:04.220 --> 03:28:09.560 for sure it just I think for the viewer perspective it was like so low quick yeah 03:28:09.560 --> 03:28:13.480 new kid get it that doesn't have you got a better change your ability we were 03:28:13.480 --> 03:28:16.760 tracking your absolute best so it's not been updated for a while but you got 03:28:16.760 --> 03:28:22.600 even lower like a 65 7 in P1 going into P2 that which is absolutely wild yeah 03:28:22.600 --> 03:28:30.220 damage was 65 7 is not a little bit we had a 63 I think phase 2 especially like 03:28:30.220 --> 03:28:35.300 how fast are done from their sides can be somewhere in G right like things can 03:28:35.300 --> 03:28:40.540 take an extra second or two so you and the whole team then is slower to arrive but 03:28:40.540 --> 03:28:44.500 yeah I think overall our dams was amazing like we didn't have any issues at 03:28:44.500 --> 03:28:48.660 any point with the damage yeah I've gotta come back subscribe then I guess 03:28:48.660 --> 03:28:55.660 with just a quick question is this time at last race you look devastated like walking corpse around the place 03:28:55.660 --> 03:29:01.500 But this time you seem to have changed something you've been much more fresh getting sleep and doing things like some things 03:29:02.100 --> 03:29:04.100 This is hilarious 03:29:04.220 --> 03:29:06.720 Watching before he went on an absolute 03:29:07.300 --> 03:29:14.540 Like rampage on Twitter which I think is an important topic of what you have was in the channel. I've got my sleep 03:29:14.540 --> 03:29:15.660 Oh 03:29:15.660 --> 03:29:21.020 He means like before he means like during the day or like before the killer something 03:29:26.740 --> 03:29:31.100 Not saying like go as hard right as we did back in the back in the old days 03:29:32.220 --> 03:29:36.300 Well, it's the four five hours a day and it was I was hating my life 03:29:36.300 --> 03:29:37.660 It was too much 03:29:37.660 --> 03:29:43.380 We changed all that because the players also wanted to sleep more so I easily go. Oh, do they sleep as much as we do now? 03:29:43.380 --> 03:29:48.420 that for a long time we had 10 hours in between our raids and they had nine as 03:29:48.420 --> 03:29:56.220 like a daily thing but then also they would frequently like stay up past their 03:29:56.220 --> 03:30:00.940 raid time on non-end bosses to kill them which is like actually hard banned in 03:30:00.940 --> 03:30:04.500 our guild we would never under any circumstances seriously like the 03:30:04.500 --> 03:30:09.540 players would kill me at the facility if we did that and I know like I think 03:30:09.540 --> 03:30:15.140 an exact quote from Skype is sleep is fake when like discussing kindrel and 03:30:15.140 --> 03:30:19.860 stuff like that and I wonder I wonder when that changed or if that was like 03:30:19.860 --> 03:30:23.620 this year like a tier before or something like that but also I think we 03:30:23.620 --> 03:30:27.820 just played really good so I was really happy with the performance like I think 03:30:27.820 --> 03:30:33.820 this was the closest we ever had the second kill yeah I don't know how much 03:30:33.820 --> 03:30:39.260 time was it between the kills like the first pull after I think it's second so I 03:30:39.260 --> 03:30:43.820 mean we really was two pulls away holy fuck dude I actually wasn't that stressed 03:30:43.820 --> 03:30:47.900 out when we killed it but I should have been I guess with Laura you almost killed 03:30:47.900 --> 03:30:51.740 it the very next pull one click would have taken it there was a yeah we've 03:30:51.740 --> 03:30:57.700 become real good at that so I didn't think the like the coiled altar 03:30:57.700 --> 03:31:00.900 re-kill mattered but in the perspective of like how soon the boss died after 03:31:00.900 --> 03:31:07.300 that it definitely did. Like you basically we chose to coin the boss with someone in who is in for 03:31:07.300 --> 03:31:14.340 ulotech to have the most damage possible and was that worth like two hours? No. But if the boss was 03:31:14.340 --> 03:31:19.860 like way harder and had a way higher DPS check the answer would have probably been yes. Or maybe 03:31:19.860 --> 03:31:23.300 even still no. But it's definitely no because the damage check was completely wrong. 03:31:23.300 --> 03:31:26.980 I'll say as well though like for liquid I mean these guys I don't know how they do it. 03:31:26.980 --> 03:31:32.500 they keep doing it though they clock in and just randomly go what was their best 03:31:32.500 --> 03:31:40.380 before I don't know actually 30 I think was it the 26 I mean I wasn't even 03:31:40.380 --> 03:31:44.500 looking 16 as I was like I just focus on what we're doing and then suddenly 03:31:44.500 --> 03:31:54.420 someone says oh Gigi's like what was happening or did we have a GM never 03:31:54.420 --> 03:32:05.420 I can't say anything about them, when it matters it seems like they're really good at locking in. 03:32:05.420 --> 03:32:07.420 So congratulations to them. 03:32:07.420 --> 03:32:10.420 It is what it is. 03:32:10.420 --> 03:32:15.420 We did see you in the last phase putting the three circles on top of each other 03:32:15.420 --> 03:32:17.420 saying you guys came up with a lot. 03:32:17.420 --> 03:32:19.420 How was it to kind of navigate through Ullatech? 03:32:19.420 --> 03:32:23.420 I feel like it was such a fiddly fight with all the different damage profiles 03:32:23.420 --> 03:32:28.620 the different cooldowns, phase 2 looking really spicy because you're trying to save some things for later 03:32:28.620 --> 03:32:33.140 and of course you're strattening the end with the pulls, you know saving all of your healing cooldowns for that. 03:32:33.140 --> 03:32:34.640 Did that take, you know, a while? 03:32:34.640 --> 03:32:41.340 Well, I mean like, okay, I will give them some credit of like the whole like you save healing cooldowns for that moment 03:32:41.340 --> 03:32:44.140 but we never talked about saving healing cooldowns for that moment 03:32:44.140 --> 03:32:46.140 but we had them all up and the reason why is 03:32:46.860 --> 03:32:51.340 not a single point of damage happens to you in like three minutes in that phase outside of 03:32:51.340 --> 03:32:57.020 single target healing the people with the debuffs from the circles. They just actually like zeroed down. 03:32:59.020 --> 03:33:01.020 So... 03:33:01.180 --> 03:33:06.620 Yeah, it's not like a crazy thing to have your CDs up there. There's just no reason to use them. 03:33:07.420 --> 03:33:12.540 I was quite busy with the planning at some point and it was getting 03:33:12.820 --> 03:33:18.380 way too wild and at some point we noticed honestly that you don't need to min-max it so much. 03:33:18.460 --> 03:33:20.460 Dude, I want to know when they figured out 03:33:21.340 --> 03:33:29.100 the patterns in P1 and decided to have players make notes for specifically the sets. That I think was 03:33:29.100 --> 03:33:35.180 just so fucking smart and genuinely hard to come up with. It is much more meh-meh-maxable, like you 03:33:35.180 --> 03:33:40.300 could do easily 5% more both HP on this fight. Way more than that probably. Or it was actually 03:33:40.300 --> 03:33:45.900 really hard. If you told me I need to do 5% more. On this fight there was a lot of ways 03:33:45.900 --> 03:33:51.560 You could optimize things the movement between the egg rooms the carrying of the eggs like even classes 03:33:51.560 --> 03:33:55.840 We didn't go for optimal class max. So Shaq doing the same void elf tech that nice means was this 03:33:57.240 --> 03:34:00.660 For a hunter or something like that if you could have done a lot of things 03:34:01.860 --> 03:34:08.320 But once we notice like oh, it was actually kind of killable. Let's just send some cities here and it's fine 03:34:08.320 --> 03:34:10.440 I think that's worth welling on a little okay 03:34:10.440 --> 03:34:15.880 That makes sense why their boss damage wasn't as high as I this is exactly what I guess earlier before listening to this 03:34:15.900 --> 03:34:23.560 was that they basically were trying to consistently get to the end of the fight so they were and this is a smart progression move 03:34:23.740 --> 03:34:26.100 They weren't using as many CDs in the burn 03:34:26.100 --> 03:34:31.100 Maybe you move like two of them one on each side to P2 just to more consistently get through P2 03:34:31.100 --> 03:34:32.220 And then you're like, okay 03:34:32.220 --> 03:34:36.380 We'll move the CDs off if we have to on most end bosses you eventually have to anyway 03:34:36.380 --> 03:34:40.580 So another line of thinking is let's do this from the beginning. So we're not learning something and then have to 03:34:40.580 --> 03:34:42.580 Unlearning that's another way to do things right 03:34:42.580 --> 03:34:46.560 But on this fight, you could definitely do that and just be like, okay, well 03:34:47.080 --> 03:34:51.660 Now we have more consistent P3 pulls now. We see the end of the fight now. We know how much damage we need 03:34:51.660 --> 03:34:53.160 It's actually kind of undertuned 03:34:53.160 --> 03:34:56.560 So we don't even need to move that many CDs there now, right? 03:34:57.400 --> 03:35:03.320 We got sort of comp changes days ago, you know, was it just that makes P3 harder for echo 03:35:03.320 --> 03:35:05.200 But they have to do P3 more that's correct 03:35:05.200 --> 03:35:09.540 But on this fight doing P3 more is better than making P3 harder because P3 03:35:12.580 --> 03:35:14.420 Was it a personal thing? 03:35:14.420 --> 03:35:16.740 I still don't know how good Red is. 03:35:16.740 --> 03:35:19.860 Red is actually surprisingly really good at this boss. 03:35:19.860 --> 03:35:21.980 Like that makes a lot of sense to me 03:35:21.980 --> 03:35:23.180 that they don't know how good Red is 03:35:23.180 --> 03:35:25.300 because like Lip was really trying to tell us like Red's 03:35:25.300 --> 03:35:26.300 like really good two target 03:35:26.300 --> 03:35:28.660 and just like really good timers for Ultec. 03:35:28.660 --> 03:35:30.220 We tried it instead of Holy Paladin 03:35:30.220 --> 03:35:31.340 and I think it was obvious that 03:35:31.340 --> 03:35:33.260 Ellie Shaman wasn't gonna do it. 03:35:33.260 --> 03:35:35.580 So we like just brought the Resto Shaman instead, 03:35:35.580 --> 03:35:37.300 which is definitely like not the best healer 03:35:37.300 --> 03:35:38.700 for that fight, but it works. 03:35:38.700 --> 03:35:40.700 Um 03:35:40.860 --> 03:35:45.420 And and ret was something very quickly when we were trying to make comm changes like the big thing was the second hunter 03:35:45.420 --> 03:35:46.620 We saw them playing second hunter 03:35:46.620 --> 03:35:49.660 But in our opinion hunter was like very mid for that boss 03:35:50.220 --> 03:35:55.900 And the second hunter's mark has extremely low value on that boss specifically like you think it does but it doesn't like having it 03:35:55.900 --> 03:36:00.300 On the boss during the amp very small having it on the tail during p1 very small 03:36:00.940 --> 03:36:02.380 um 03:36:02.380 --> 03:36:05.020 And and we thought they knew something we did it and we were like 03:36:05.020 --> 03:36:06.660 like what would you even sit for the second hunter? 03:36:06.660 --> 03:36:09.100 And like Rhett was never in conversations 03:36:09.100 --> 03:36:10.980 of the thing you had changed to like bring Holy Paladin. 03:36:10.980 --> 03:36:12.620 Like Rhett was like one of the better classes. 03:36:12.620 --> 03:36:15.560 Like Rhett kind of came out of nowhere though, 03:36:15.560 --> 03:36:18.180 cause pre-tier before they buffed their like tier set bonus, 03:36:18.180 --> 03:36:19.220 they were very bad. 03:36:19.220 --> 03:36:20.540 And then the tier set bonus is big. 03:36:20.540 --> 03:36:22.380 It did feel like that is like every day 03:36:22.380 --> 03:36:24.300 we were waiting for these comp changes to come in 03:36:24.300 --> 03:36:26.100 and we knew you did splits for them. 03:36:26.100 --> 03:36:27.780 You've got Cush was prepared. 03:36:27.780 --> 03:36:29.540 I think Mace Team was prepared. 03:36:29.540 --> 03:36:31.020 Darko was prepared. 03:36:31.020 --> 03:36:33.180 And then ultimately it's kind of cool that you're like, 03:36:33.180 --> 03:36:37.580 don't need to min-max this that much actually and decide to trust in the 03:36:37.580 --> 03:36:41.540 players a little bit more is that something that's usually knowing you 03:36:41.540 --> 03:36:46.860 you're like this guy's 1% better and what my 1% was it the boss itself that 03:36:46.860 --> 03:36:50.500 dictated that are more in the thought process of yourself a little bit I think 03:36:50.500 --> 03:36:55.740 the egg carrying is there's two things first of all there's like the chaos 03:36:55.740 --> 03:37:00.340 even something is so chaotic as this boss with so many different damage 03:37:00.340 --> 03:37:07.440 patterns and so many different like moments like I said egg-carrying like a lot of people having them in melee, ranged balance 03:37:08.320 --> 03:37:13.840 You don't know what your change will lead to. You have an idea obviously look at the DPS reader 03:37:13.840 --> 03:37:17.560 You see okay this class is a little better than this, but what else is changing, you know 03:37:17.560 --> 03:37:24.040 Are we gonna have a different sprint or am I we're gonna have a problem having a person in melee carry the egg? 03:37:24.360 --> 03:37:29.280 Are we gonna lose this guy's void elf jump over and then suddenly there's less space for other people 03:37:29.280 --> 03:37:31.280 It's very risky to fiddle with things that you don't know. 03:37:31.280 --> 03:37:33.280 Yeah, P1 is very interesting that way. 03:37:33.280 --> 03:37:40.280 Fully about. And it's very hard to know everything and have the full grasp on all classes and this whole fight and everybody's assignments. 03:37:40.280 --> 03:37:45.280 So the idea was change as little as possible and only the necessary things. 03:37:45.280 --> 03:37:51.280 And in the end we thought the four year was worth it. And that's why we changed it. Also Spray Link is nice. 03:37:51.280 --> 03:37:56.280 You know what? I have slandered Spirit Link totem a lot over the years. 03:37:56.280 --> 03:37:59.480 because people are always like listing it with like the very best cooldowns in the game, 03:38:00.600 --> 03:38:05.720 but they have buffed it enough and specifically this raid I feel like had a Jesus link moment 03:38:05.720 --> 03:38:11.720 on like every single encounter to where I definitely am going to move like of my imaginary tier 03:38:11.720 --> 03:38:17.160 list of raid cooldowns where Spirit Link before was like a B. I would move that up to an A. 03:38:17.160 --> 03:38:21.160 I think it improved in my eyes in this year. I think mostly because like the things that were 03:38:21.160 --> 03:38:28.120 stronger than it had been nerfed over time like disc priest barrier AMZ stuff like that to where 03:38:29.880 --> 03:38:33.320 it has just it has just gotten better like if you combine the DR with the 03:38:33.880 --> 03:38:35.400 linking of health it's very nice. 03:38:43.400 --> 03:38:48.440 Further mid max is like I stopped at some point looking at things but I would guess that the 03:38:48.440 --> 03:38:52.280 second rope would have been better than the second hunter. 03:38:52.280 --> 03:38:55.880 The AUG is debatable in my opinion even because 03:38:55.880 --> 03:39:01.800 it makes some things a little bit harder. I think he might be talking about P2. 03:39:01.800 --> 03:39:06.120 I think AUG, at least for boss damage, AUG is like really really really good, 03:39:06.120 --> 03:39:09.320 but on the side that AUG is on in P2 it's a little harder so we like 03:39:09.320 --> 03:39:11.400 over stacked that side to make up for it. 03:39:11.400 --> 03:39:15.560 Times, but it is good for the fight it's just a bit hard 03:39:15.560 --> 03:39:21.480 to play, right? Aug is a bit crazy. There's a lot of indexing there was that could have been done, 03:39:22.120 --> 03:39:25.240 but also, I don't think it was worth it. I think we made the right call. 03:39:25.800 --> 03:39:31.160 Yeah, I think, I think we can probably do at least 5% more of the damage. 03:39:31.160 --> 03:39:34.120 Aug is like boss could have a lot more health in the end. Yeah. 03:39:34.920 --> 03:39:38.120 Which I don't think we've had this be the case often. 03:39:38.760 --> 03:39:41.320 No, it's just a it's just a third reset thing, right? 03:39:41.320 --> 03:39:50.320 Like if we're fighting this boss with last reset gear, I promise you the boss health would have been something you optimized for. 03:39:50.320 --> 03:39:54.320 Man, we don't pay that much attention to the boss damage, I guess. 03:39:54.320 --> 03:39:55.320 Yeah, it's like Galamix. 03:39:55.320 --> 03:39:57.320 Yeah, I guess so, yeah. 03:39:57.320 --> 03:40:02.320 Did fall a little bit that way. It wasn't as much of a, you know, type finish, I guess. 03:40:02.320 --> 03:40:07.320 So you're trying to squeeze out those last few boss percentages. It did kind of fall over. 03:40:07.320 --> 03:40:12.760 But I did want to ask as well, we did see the hotfix come in with the way that the waves worked in phase one 03:40:12.800 --> 03:40:15.200 How many issues did that cause wait? I? 03:40:16.120 --> 03:40:18.120 still am not sure 03:40:18.280 --> 03:40:21.800 What they're talking about because I heard our players talk about this 03:40:21.800 --> 03:40:26.200 I heard like whispers that echo was saying they like changed the P1 waves 03:40:27.000 --> 03:40:32.320 But like I didn't we didn't really talk about that is something that was like a huge thing 03:40:32.320 --> 03:40:37.960 But I need to before he even answers I need to even know what they're talking about because they never posted anything about this 03:40:40.880 --> 03:40:48.640 Like they've never made the change on like in the discord where they're like we're fixing something about the p1 waves 03:40:52.640 --> 03:40:57.000 They the waves were hotfixed to not be dodgeable on the yf y axis 03:40:57.000 --> 03:41:00.120 No, that I mean you can still dodge them on the y axis that did not change 03:41:00.120 --> 03:41:02.760 You think the patterns changed? 03:41:02.760 --> 03:41:06.360 Oh wow, I was not aware of that. 03:41:06.360 --> 03:41:08.640 We were talking about how Min Maxi was. 03:41:08.640 --> 03:41:09.640 Hopefully they explain it. 03:41:09.640 --> 03:41:12.480 That caused quite a bit of reproach. 03:41:12.480 --> 03:41:13.480 For sure. 03:41:13.480 --> 03:41:14.480 So, sorry. 03:41:14.480 --> 03:41:23.800 Yeah, because we played already the boss quite a while before that and the way it works, 03:41:23.800 --> 03:41:27.120 I don't know how much the chat knows as well. 03:41:27.120 --> 03:41:34.360 basically four patterns in how you do the dodges and it's when the tail is on 03:41:34.360 --> 03:41:39.780 the right and the boss like you dobs the boss to the right first okay so we call 03:41:39.780 --> 03:41:45.320 that right right and there is a right left left and left right so four total 03:41:45.320 --> 03:41:52.600 that's how we coded it let's say as well and you have a plan for each pattern 03:41:52.600 --> 03:41:54.600 How are you going to do it? 03:41:54.600 --> 03:41:58.600 And then what happened was, Blizzard made a fix. 03:41:58.600 --> 03:42:07.600 I think it has to do with some code of how that caustic waves cast the spell ID or something. 03:42:07.600 --> 03:42:12.600 Because you could track it somehow and call whether it's going to go left or right. 03:42:12.600 --> 03:42:14.600 I think Liquid was doing that at the start. 03:42:14.600 --> 03:42:17.600 And then I think that's why they halt-fixed something. 03:42:17.600 --> 03:42:21.600 Oh, so yeah, basically when both of our guilds started this boss, 03:42:21.600 --> 03:42:30.640 We basically had some super secret technology that made the boss, actually, maybe I can find 03:42:30.640 --> 03:42:31.640 this. 03:42:31.640 --> 03:42:37.680 So, Team Liquid. 03:42:37.680 --> 03:42:38.680 Team Liquid rebroadcast. 03:42:38.680 --> 03:42:40.320 It has to be the first day we streamed ULTEC. 03:42:40.320 --> 03:42:42.320 streamed 03:42:50.760 --> 03:42:56.320 If you use the going dark you would also see it that first night, which was day 12 03:42:57.200 --> 03:43:02.260 Keep it real we can you know how many poles are we here 78 per 74 percent p3 03:43:32.260 --> 03:43:39.460 We pull the boss, we do the eggs, it does its first wave, like right now, okay, right now. 03:43:39.460 --> 03:43:42.700 So do you guys see the boss is about to start caustic waves? 03:43:42.700 --> 03:43:48.060 Wait, pausing it three, two, it's right after this, I think. 03:43:48.060 --> 03:43:52.260 Oh my God, why is it doing that? 03:43:52.260 --> 03:43:55.380 All right, do you see how it already says left? 03:43:55.380 --> 03:43:56.620 The boss has casted. 03:43:56.620 --> 03:44:02.620 And it just started its cast and it hasn't even raised its hand yet. 03:44:02.620 --> 03:44:05.620 But we already know the safe spot is going to be left. 03:44:05.620 --> 03:44:08.620 Like this. 03:44:08.620 --> 03:44:14.620 So this is when you should know that it's left, but we knew this for like the previous five seconds. 03:44:14.620 --> 03:44:22.620 Due to some, I mean, basically how I think this worked is when the boss casts caustic waves 03:44:22.620 --> 03:44:26.580 waves and he raises his arm where the left is the safe spot that's one spell ID 03:44:26.580 --> 03:44:30.220 and when he raises it to the right that's another spell ID and it's like 03:44:30.220 --> 03:44:35.100 pretty much that simple I think and then they still told us to stop using it and 03:44:35.100 --> 03:44:38.020 they were like they were gonna fix it and we're like cool it wasn't like 03:44:38.020 --> 03:44:40.460 anything against the rules or anything but it was just something that they 03:44:40.460 --> 03:44:45.620 had forgotten to fix basically and what Roger is saying is maybe when they 03:44:45.620 --> 03:44:50.100 hot-fixed this is when the waves work differently but maybe like they had 03:44:50.100 --> 03:44:54.080 already kind of figured out the waves before that point and we had not and it 03:44:54.080 --> 03:44:57.600 sounds that's why we didn't realize it changed the back waves to shoot five and 03:44:57.600 --> 03:45:02.720 a half seconds earlier with changes how you play each pattern yeah I'm pretty 03:45:02.720 --> 03:45:07.000 sure when we woke up on the day and actually started doing the note thing 03:45:07.000 --> 03:45:13.240 I'm pretty sure it had already changed so it never affected us but they like 03:45:13.240 --> 03:45:18.360 set their notes up and then it changed which made that suddenly you're 03:45:18.360 --> 03:45:24.360 you're getting shot from behind much sooner so I would not recommend watching 03:45:24.360 --> 03:45:30.280 the highlights videos in this race. I think you do a sneak peek and you're like what is 03:45:30.280 --> 03:45:36.640 happening? Don't find me please. I really love my job and so yeah that was that was a bit 03:45:36.640 --> 03:45:39.960 frustrating I think I think the mechanic in general is a bit frustrating though 03:45:39.960 --> 03:45:45.200 right like because it's it's a pattern but it's not a hundred percent a pattern 03:45:45.200 --> 03:45:50.980 Because there are gaps and the gaps are different every time so you get the general idea and you assume 03:45:50.980 --> 03:45:57.260 I guess that there are no gaps, but it's it's I don't think this will go down as the favorite thing in the 03:45:58.120 --> 03:46:02.700 The rest world first or anyone else was about to prog this fight guys good luck in phase one 03:46:04.060 --> 03:46:06.620 Yeah, I think that might get changed and certainly 03:46:07.340 --> 03:46:12.780 I wonder how it could be changed the only thing I think it could be changed like the biggest nerf to P1 would be 03:46:12.780 --> 03:46:17.580 Remember how I told you earlier how the boss like removes blobs? 03:46:17.580 --> 03:46:23.720 So like if this is a spectral coil back here and it just spawned and it's going to shoot out these blobs 03:46:24.260 --> 03:46:27.660 Straight across from where you see them here across the platform right now 03:46:27.660 --> 03:46:30.380 How the boss works is it picks two of them at random and deletes them 03:46:30.380 --> 03:46:33.600 That's what creates the RNG if it if it deleted three or four 03:46:34.140 --> 03:46:39.580 The average success chance of P1 would go up by like a thousand percent. That's probably all they need to do 03:46:39.580 --> 03:46:43.580 It's been vipers. We don't like vipers. 03:46:43.580 --> 03:46:49.580 Jon Vipers, he's been nicknamed, is not a nice man, and we don't like him when he shows up. 03:46:49.580 --> 03:46:52.580 There have been some to play. This raid is very fun. 03:46:52.580 --> 03:46:56.580 But how has it been as a raid, certainly compared to what we had recently? 03:46:56.580 --> 03:47:01.580 Obviously we had a disappointing voidspire, but then we finished with Belarand and Lura. 03:47:01.580 --> 03:47:03.580 The whole Demensius raid was very good. 03:47:03.580 --> 03:47:06.580 What's been the overall Huletek vibe? 03:47:06.580 --> 03:47:08.700 or abyss, that is abyss. 03:47:08.700 --> 03:47:11.260 Yeah, it is a bit weird because the early bosses 03:47:11.260 --> 03:47:15.100 were like actually hard because we were splitting them, 03:47:15.100 --> 03:47:17.500 so we kind of got to progress them in a way, 03:47:17.500 --> 03:47:20.380 but it didn't feel like good to progress them 03:47:20.380 --> 03:47:23.300 because you knew you could kill it if you wanted to, 03:47:23.300 --> 03:47:24.300 but you were making it after- 03:47:24.300 --> 03:47:27.540 Making it harder by getting rid of your characters, 03:47:27.540 --> 03:47:29.340 and the lower gear characters you could- 03:47:29.340 --> 03:47:31.020 Dude, shout out that person earlier who said like, 03:47:31.020 --> 03:47:32.780 I feel like the stream is ending in five minutes 03:47:32.780 --> 03:47:34.420 and you were fucking wrong, by the way. 03:47:34.420 --> 03:47:38.140 to kill them you could gather more loot in that week because you could split more. 03:47:38.140 --> 03:47:44.140 So it was like this constant let's weaken ourselves and try to split it more 03:47:44.140 --> 03:47:50.620 which like you want to kill a boss once I did. That's what you're going for right? 03:47:50.620 --> 03:47:54.380 Like imagine if we're trying to split Ultec it wouldn't be fun right now 03:47:54.380 --> 03:47:59.940 because we could kill it with one easy let's say. So that's why the early 03:47:59.940 --> 03:48:05.940 part of the raid was kind of sad towards the end I mean twin fangs onwards I 03:48:05.940 --> 03:48:11.580 think was good I think I was good full attack yeah in general like box and 03:48:11.580 --> 03:48:16.380 stuff were pretty bad with QA I think I don't know maybe if they rush things 03:48:16.380 --> 03:48:22.740 because of Blizzcon or something but I would say generally good fights yeah 03:48:22.740 --> 03:48:27.060 I think I think I'm just sad a little bit that Cizorak was so easy 03:48:27.060 --> 03:48:30.060 because we geared so much for it, you know? 03:48:30.060 --> 03:48:32.060 We should probably bring a method here. 03:48:32.060 --> 03:48:34.060 You tested all the stuff for you. 03:48:35.060 --> 03:48:38.060 Yeah, I had high hopes for Cisarack actually, 03:48:38.060 --> 03:48:41.060 because I liked the design of the boss, 03:48:41.060 --> 03:48:44.060 so I was hoping that there would be a tight DPS check 03:48:44.060 --> 03:48:46.060 and you have to actually play the whole thing. 03:48:46.060 --> 03:48:48.060 I think Cisarack is very visually confusing. 03:48:48.060 --> 03:48:51.060 But then, yeah, we split so much in the first week, 03:48:51.060 --> 03:48:54.060 because this is how things are now. 03:48:54.060 --> 03:48:56.060 Don't say that, man! 03:49:24.060 --> 03:49:26.420 moved all the kicks from M+, and they were like, 03:49:26.420 --> 03:49:27.580 what do I do with all these kicks? 03:49:27.580 --> 03:49:29.620 And they threw them in the race. 03:49:29.620 --> 03:49:30.460 And it's like. 03:49:30.460 --> 03:49:31.300 Like a sands a sack of kicks. 03:49:31.300 --> 03:49:32.140 Yeah. 03:49:32.140 --> 03:49:35.380 I was like, oh, maybe now I can enjoy M+, finally, 03:49:35.380 --> 03:49:37.380 because I hate it that you have to do a million kicks 03:49:37.380 --> 03:49:39.060 and stops, and that's the only thing you're doing, 03:49:39.060 --> 03:49:40.020 basically. 03:49:40.020 --> 03:49:41.220 And now they're putting it in our race. 03:49:41.220 --> 03:49:42.220 Like, what's going on? 03:49:42.220 --> 03:49:44.940 Come on, like, get that out of here. 03:49:44.940 --> 03:49:46.060 Like, I don't know. 03:49:46.060 --> 03:49:48.500 And on top of that, they break a lot 03:49:48.500 --> 03:49:50.660 of the weak order functionality. 03:49:50.660 --> 03:49:56.420 So now you have to do scuffed week orders for kicks, and it's just like, I don't know, 03:49:56.420 --> 03:49:57.420 it's annoying. 03:49:57.420 --> 03:49:59.340 Stop doing kicks, everywhere. 03:49:59.340 --> 03:50:00.340 Every boss has a kick. 03:50:00.340 --> 03:50:01.340 Why? 03:50:01.340 --> 03:50:02.340 I mean, twin fangs. 03:50:02.340 --> 03:50:06.060 Yeah, every boss, I feel like they tried to remove kick add-ons, but then made the 03:50:06.060 --> 03:50:09.940 most confusing, difficult kick requirement. 03:50:09.940 --> 03:50:13.900 And if we didn't still have a way to kind of do kicks, it would just be miserable. 03:50:13.900 --> 03:50:14.900 A lot of kicks. 03:50:14.900 --> 03:50:15.900 Yeah, okay. 03:50:15.900 --> 03:50:16.900 Twin fangs? 03:50:16.900 --> 03:50:17.900 You know what? 03:50:17.900 --> 03:50:18.900 There, I appreciate it. 03:50:18.900 --> 03:50:24.820 Virten twin fangs sucks that fight a bit more is so bad like a big thing 03:50:24.820 --> 03:50:29.520 And it's like for a short time right like you have to do kicks for 10 seconds, and then you're done 03:50:29.700 --> 03:50:35.900 But then you go cool down you have these guys that can spawn randomly across the room diagonally super far 03:50:35.900 --> 03:50:38.900 Or they can spawn a different position and then when you kick them 03:50:38.900 --> 03:50:44.540 They might blink all the way to the corner or they could be all the way to the center and you have to like 03:50:44.540 --> 03:50:49.780 kicks are not fun. I feel like in terms of boss design Blizzard has kind of 03:50:49.780 --> 03:50:55.100 incorporated a lot of utility use in a lot of bosses even on frack for example 03:50:55.100 --> 03:51:00.820 in second phase yet a lot of ad control and control in general pushing them in 03:51:00.820 --> 03:51:04.460 phase three of Ulishek for example you know the ring of pieces the grips there 03:51:04.460 --> 03:51:07.420 it just seems to be a lot more within a boss fight a little bit mythic 03:51:07.420 --> 03:51:11.840 lost all as opposed to kind of just damage and healing. How do you kind of 03:51:11.840 --> 03:51:17.200 like twin fangs for example you have to see the max so you can 03:51:17.200 --> 03:51:23.280 recommend the second shadow instead of moonkin for ulotech um probably not 03:51:23.280 --> 03:51:28.880 because I think like that the second moonkin will give you will make all the 03:51:28.880 --> 03:51:32.600 eggs easier like the only thing shadow priest is better than boomkin at is 03:51:32.600 --> 03:51:37.120 just boss damage and like the amp but they also kind of do the moonkin thing 03:51:37.120 --> 03:51:39.120 Um 03:51:39.700 --> 03:51:45.160 It's probably still the second moonken for ease of progression like if the boss damage check was hard a second shadow priest would be better 03:51:45.160 --> 03:51:46.640 But it's not 03:51:46.640 --> 03:51:49.680 I think that's fine because you plan for it. It's right there 03:51:49.680 --> 03:51:54.960 It's just like I said like the things that like the way they did kicks for example a coil out there 03:51:54.960 --> 03:52:00.640 I think it's bad and also you go then to Ultec and they're like what should this ad do? 03:52:00.800 --> 03:52:03.440 Yeah, throw a cast to kick. Okay 03:52:03.840 --> 03:52:05.680 jobs down like 03:52:05.680 --> 03:52:09.400 Why why you're you're ignoring that by vashnik 03:52:10.320 --> 03:52:14.560 Vashnik you just don't move you just stand still and shoot me 03:52:14.960 --> 03:52:20.800 Thank God for that. That was I don't think was cooked good from Blizzard from the beginning. Okay. Yeah 03:52:20.800 --> 03:52:24.080 It's become the standard strat across the board now to do that 03:52:24.360 --> 03:52:26.640 There is something that happened over the course of this race 03:52:26.640 --> 03:52:29.980 You might not be aware of because you guys have been busy points. This is actually yours 03:52:30.840 --> 03:52:32.840 right oh 03:52:32.840 --> 03:52:39.820 Oh, we reached that you didn't what happened? We reached that you reached that yes, they did thank you so much. They did 03:52:41.200 --> 03:52:43.200 thousand children help 03:52:43.960 --> 03:52:48.780 They got two hundred thousand in charity this this season 03:52:54.720 --> 03:52:56.720 It's that's insane 03:52:57.800 --> 03:53:00.720 Overall oh like over all events 03:53:00.720 --> 03:53:04.160 okay holy fuck I thought that's a dude 03:53:04.160 --> 03:53:07.080 wonderful achievement that was gone as 03:53:07.080 --> 03:53:09.160 well as Daniel all 33 you are a winner 03:53:09.160 --> 03:53:11.760 of our course at boss drop so make sure 03:53:11.760 --> 03:53:13.840 your twitch DMs are open so we go 03:53:13.840 --> 03:53:15.360 into you we don't say what's so much 03:53:15.360 --> 03:53:16.960 more of your time guys but it's very hard 03:53:16.960 --> 03:53:19.160 thought that was fucking with I was 03:53:19.160 --> 03:53:20.520 like what are these guys what are these 03:53:20.520 --> 03:53:22.840 guys got cooking over there what do you 03:53:22.840 --> 03:53:24.840 how do you know is there anything you 03:53:24.840 --> 03:53:26.360 immediately think could change I mean 03:53:26.360 --> 03:53:28.360 you've had I mean dude it's hard for 03:53:28.360 --> 03:53:29.680 them to say what could change like in 03:53:29.680 --> 03:53:32.560 their minds they just played really really well, right? 03:53:32.560 --> 03:53:36.960 Didn't have, I said to you this day, you did not have a bad rate data this entire time. 03:53:36.960 --> 03:53:38.760 Yeah, not one bad rate data. 03:53:38.760 --> 03:53:44.360 We had a lot of talking, I think, you know, there's of course always things to improve on 03:53:44.360 --> 03:53:49.160 but I think this has been like such a complete package let's say from us. 03:53:49.160 --> 03:53:51.080 Wait, are Tobo and them still in the pro lab? 03:53:51.080 --> 03:53:53.280 Why do they keep talking about cany at combos? 03:53:53.280 --> 03:53:55.280 Hold on. 03:54:25.280 --> 03:54:54.280 Yeah, dude, they actually had Keynes somehow just like half of our guild is still in the 03:54:54.280 --> 03:54:57.280 pro lab and I thought they like flew home but apparently there's I mean I knew 03:54:57.280 --> 03:55:01.280 they were staring staying in an Airbnb until was gone but I didn't realize they're 03:55:01.280 --> 03:55:05.080 just still gonna play here basically 03:55:05.520 --> 03:55:09.600 I'm more even than the previous tears and the last year I thought already was 03:55:09.600 --> 03:55:14.800 better than the previous you know like we're just I don't know I have no no 03:55:14.800 --> 03:55:22.360 problems to address and very happy and proud of the team I do think that 03:55:22.360 --> 03:55:28.880 But maybe the race is going in a weird direction though, like we've all just talked about. 03:55:28.880 --> 03:55:34.200 So I do think, hopefully Blizzard announces something at BlizzCon or there is some thoughts 03:55:34.200 --> 03:55:40.240 of changing it a little bit, I don't know, somehow, have some thoughts but yeah, at the 03:55:40.240 --> 03:55:45.240 end of the day it's up to Blizzard, because I think it's also not as enjoyable for 03:55:45.240 --> 03:55:46.840 anyone at this point, right? 03:55:46.840 --> 03:55:50.840 Like yeah, you can say it's self-inflicted with all the splits and stuff, but it's 03:55:50.840 --> 03:55:51.840 not just that. 03:55:51.840 --> 03:55:52.840 It's getting worse. 03:55:52.840 --> 03:55:55.880 A lot of things, like the bugs we're discussing. 03:55:55.880 --> 03:55:59.680 So hopefully the race changes a little bit. 03:55:59.680 --> 03:56:04.760 I don't get any of the, dude, that's another wow casual opinion. 03:56:04.760 --> 03:56:08.280 That gets me good is the like, how can you guys complain about splits when you're doing 03:56:08.280 --> 03:56:09.280 it to yourself? 03:56:09.280 --> 03:56:11.880 But like, if you just don't do it and other people do it, you just lose. 03:56:11.880 --> 03:56:17.080 So it is something you have to do, which is what it is, right? 03:56:17.080 --> 03:56:19.960 Direction in the future. 03:56:19.960 --> 03:56:23.800 Yeah, in terms of us super happy and thank you for all the support 03:56:24.280 --> 03:56:28.360 In chat. I didn't really look at it, but I know it's there. So thank you so much 03:56:28.360 --> 03:56:33.720 I saw all the all the helpers in the splits. That was impressive. All right, that's about it. All right. Yeah, make sense 03:56:33.960 --> 03:56:38.400 All right, shout out to that guy who said the stream's ending in 13 minutes 13 minutes ago. It's actually correct 03:56:39.160 --> 03:56:41.160 I'll be on